Atlantic Canada Regional Transportation Thread

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by The Bangor Daily News

East-west highway proponent says construction could start as early as 2015
By QUENTIN CASEY, Telegraph-Journal
Posted Feb. 24, 2012, at 8:52 p.m.

If approved and completed, the highway would run east-west across Maine. It would begin at Calais, which sits across from St. Stephen on the New Brunswick border. From there it would run to the Maine-Quebec border. The highway would end at Coburn Gore, Maine.

Vigue says the benefits of the project are clear: The highway would better connect Maine and the Maritime provinces to markets in Quebec, Ontario and the central U.S.

The proposed highway would be created mainly by upgrading existing, privately owned roads, most of which are now used by the forestry industry.

The project, previously pegged at well over $1 billion, would be funded exclusively with private cash, Vigue said. The highway’s operators would charge a toll for its use, but unlike many other highways, there would be no weight restrictions for heavy trucks.

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/02/2...early-as-2015/

If it is going to cost $1 Billion for this highway, I would assume that the upgrading to existing roads would be doubling the single-lane highways to double-lane highways. After looking at the map I can't determine which roads they would be looking to upgrade or to build new altogether. Highway 9 from Calais is obvious and Highway 27 to Coburn Gore. Once the report is released I suppose we will find out.

[ErickMontreal]

I wonder if such a project would have a trickle down effect on the economy of Saint John. At the very least, more people would drive through which is, of course, not a bad thing to begin with.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by ErickMontreal

I wonder if such a project would have a trickle down effect on the economy of Saint John. At the very least, more people would drive through which is, of course, not a bad thing to begin with.

The large amount of the traffic on this new highway will be, assumingly, industry-related: Forestry;oil; any sort of trucking whatsoever. That would be why all of the money for this is Privately funded. Someone wants this highway built.

As for places on the way, Saint John would certainly benefit! It depends on how many people would travel across the border into Maine before re-entering into New Brunswick at St. Stephen. Calais and St. Stephen would certainly benefit, whereas places like Edmundston and places north along the TCH may suffer.

As an example, I drove to Montreal a week and a half ago through New Brunswick and Quebec, and on both trips I stopped at the Border Big Stop in Dégelis. The people in my car probably spent a combined $60 on both occasions. If this highway gets built, we would be driving through Maine rather than through New Brunswick and Quebec, and that money would go elsewhere. It's a poor example, but these sorts of things add up over time.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by lake of the nations

Publié le 07 mars 2012 à 06h59 | Mis à jour à 06h59
Nouveau-Brunswick-Estrie: une autoroute jugée «essentielle»

David Bombardier
La Tribune

(Sherbrooke) La construction d'une autoroute entre Sherbrooke et Saint-Augustin-de-Woburn n'est plus seulement nécessaire. Elle est «essentielle», croit le promoteur d'une autoroute privée qui relierait l'Estrie au sud du Nouveau-Brunswick via le Maine.

En entrevue à La Tribune, l'homme d'affaires Peter Vigue a dit vouloir convaincre le premier ministre Jean Charest de l'importance, pour le ministère des Transports du Québec (MTQ), de construire une autoroute en Estrie.

Le projet de M. Vigue, s'il se concrétise en sol américain, aura un impact considérable sur les routes à deux voies qui séparent Sherbrooke de Saint-Augustin-de-Woburn sur une distance d'environ 100 kilomètres. Des centaines, voire des milliers de camionneurs et d'automobilistes traverseront quotidiennement plusieurs municipalités de la région.

M. Vigue, de la compagnie Cianbro, est sur le point d'obtenir 300 000 $ de l'État du Maine pour financer une étude de faisabilité. Cette étude viserait à convaincre des investisseurs privés de financer l'autoroute à péage, dont le coût de construction est estimé entre 1 et 2 milliards de dollars. Cette autoroute relierait Saint-Augustin-de-Woburn à St. Stephen, au Nouveau-Brunswick.

La construction de cette autoroute privée de 370 kilomètres pourrait commencer en 2015 et s'étendrait sur trois ans, précise M. Vigue. Elle permettrait aux camionneurs et aux touristes de circuler en droite ligne entre Montréal et les Maritimes via le Maine sans devoir faire un détour de plusieurs heures par le Bas-Saint-Laurent et le nord du Nouveau-Brunswick. Seule la portion séparant Sherbrooke de la frontière américaine ne serait pas dotée d'une autoroute, à moins que le MTQ n'en construise une.

Le promoteur américain avait eu des pourparlers avec les fonctionnaires du MTQ en 2008, mais le dossier n'avait pas eu de suite. Peter Vigue compte maintenant utiliser la voie politique.

Le gouverneur de l'État du Maine, Paul R. Lepage, appuie le projet d'autoroute privée en sol américain. Il devrait rencontrer le premier ministre Charest ce printemps pour le sensibiliser à l'importance d'une nouvelle autoroute en Estrie, avance Peter Vigue.

Tous les détails dans La Tribune de mercredi.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/la-tribune...5_section_POS3

Sorry to those of you who can't read French. Essentially the article is saying that Sherbrooke loves the idea of being on the possible new route between Montreal and the Maritimes. Along with this, the article states that the Eastern Townships in the 100km from the Quebec/Maine border to Sherbrooke would also benefit from the new highway. The article theorizes that if the Americans want to build a highway, the Ministry of Transportation for Quebec would consider improving the highway between Sherbrooke and the border.

For those who are curious, Sherbrooke has a metro population of just over 200,000. Sherbrooke would only be about 3/4 hours away from both Fredericton and Saint John if this highway is built. Personally I think that the more the Maritimes can connect with larger population bases the better. This highway would cut roughly 2/3 hours off the drive to Montreal, which has a population of 4 Million. It would actually be quicker to drive to Montreal than Quebec City from Saint John/Moncton. I believe it would also make Montreal a bit closer than Boston.

As a comparison to Sherbrooke's 200,000, the TCH through the north passes Riviere-du-Loup (pop. 20,000), and Rimouski (pop. 40,000).

[MonctonRad]

Glad to see this project getting some press in Quebec as well.

If the province builds an autoroute to the border to connect with this road, I presume it would only be a two lane autoroute.

Also, if the route through Maine would be 370 km, it would make the driving time from Saint John to Sherbrooke more like five hours, not 3-4 hours.

Still, this would make a drive to Montreal from Moncton about 8 hours rather than the current 10+ hours.

[Taeolas]

The important thing is to get an official highway route built, so we can start getting the traffic on it. Once it's built, growth should follow naturally. "If you build it, they will come" is a bit cliched", but given the population connections involved, this is long overdue. Once its built we'll hopefully wonder why it wasn't built before.

Who knows, if it's built within 5 years, in 10 years we'll probably be crying to have it twinned.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Who knows, if it's built within 5 years, in 10 years we'll probably be crying to have it twinned.

Scheduled to begin construction in 2015 and to be completed by 2018. I'm sure the schedule can be pushed ahead if there's enough money involved.

[19200]

The former CP line through Maine had a rather straight connection from NB to PQ.

What about revitalizing it for use?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Toronto Star

Toll highway across Maine would shave hours off east-west trip

Published On Tue Mar 20 2012
Richard J. Brennan
National Affairs Write

A proposed private east-west toll highway across Maine would shave hours off a trip from Montreal to Saint John, N.B., and improve economic ties between the state and the two provinces, a key supporter of the project says.

The idea of a multi-million dollar private highway has been kicking around for about 40 years, but renewed interest and financial support has breathed new life into the project. The exact route of a proposed highway to connect New Brunswick to New Hampshire and Vermont, possibly into Northern New York or Quebec, would be part of the study.

The proposed four-lane roadway would trim about 165 kilometres off trips between Montreal and eastern New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, and Nova Scotia. And it would save 250 kilometres for trips to Saint John.

...

He noted that New Brunswick has already built a connector highway and that LePage has been in discussions with Quebec Premier Jean Charest about building a highway to connect with the cross-state thoroughfare.

For more:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/a...east-west-trip

First mention I have seen of the highway being four-lane.

[MonctonRad]

The proposed four-lane roadway would trim about 165 kilometres off trips between Montreal and eastern New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, and Nova Scotia. And it would save 250 kilometres for trips to Saint John.

If it is 4-lane, it would certainly make it a much more attractive option for many casual (and nervous) travellers, especially if there is a lot of truck traffic.

Interesting that they calculate that the route would only be 165 km shorter from eastern NB. Since I tend to drive 120 km/hr, this would only knock about 80 minutes off the trip from Moncton. Add in the hassle of two border crossings, and it might be a wash for many travellers who live outside southern NB. Still, this would be a boon for Saint John if it is built, and an alternate route for the rest of us.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Interesting that they calculate that the route would only be 165 km shorter from eastern NB. Since I tend to drive 120 km/hr, this would only knock about 80 minutes off the trip from Moncton. Add in the hassle of two border crossings, and it might be a wash for many travellers who live outside southern NB. Still, this would be a boon for Saint John if it is built, and an alternate route for the rest of us.

I'm slightly skeptical of their numbers to be honest...I almost think it assumes that people from Eastern NB would be crossing at Houlton and then driving south through Maine, rather than driving through at Calais. It all depends on when the official route for the proposed highway is released.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

I'm slightly skeptical of their numbers to be honest...I almost think it assumes that people from Eastern NB would be crossing at Houlton and then driving south through Maine, rather than driving through at Calais. It all depends on when the official route for the proposed highway is released.

You might be right on that one Greg. 165 km doesn't seem like much of a saving to me.....

[mylesmalley]

I think the highway through Maine is certainly worth investigating. The politics are going to get pretty nasty though. Nobody going from the Maritimes (or Newfoundland) by road is going to take the long way around through Edmonston and Gaspé if they can save a couple hours on the trip, unless they're specifically bound for up there. Same goes for people in Ontario and Quebec (west of Sherbrooke) heading to us.

I doubt it'll be a blip on the radar for Quebec City, but it could really hurt a lot of the small towns and villages between Woodstock and QC. Guaranteed they'll kick up quite a fuss. There's also the money that Quebec has sunk into twinning the road between River du Loup and the border, and the money New Brunswick has spent on the road to Edmonston. Take a way essentially all of the truck traffic, and that highway probably looks like a much less attractive investment.

Now, I happen to think this idea is a great one. The net benefit is going to be huge for Southern NB and beyond. But all politics is local and it might be hard for the province to support. If the project is actually finished with private funds, there isn't really anything the government can do about it other than put pressure on the government of Maine.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

I doubt it'll be a blip on the radar for Quebec City, but it could really hurt a lot of the small towns and villages between Woodstock and QC. Guaranteed they'll kick up quite a fuss.

Kick up a fuss with who? The Maine government?

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

But all politics is local and it might be hard for the province to support. If the project is actually finished with private funds, there isn't really anything the government can do about it other than put pressure on the government of Maine.

It's all privately funded...i'm vaguely sure the only voices you'll hear are industry in New Brunswick egging on Maine to get this done ASAP. I would find it hard to believe that the government of New Brunswick would try to lobby against this highway given the economic benefit it would provide to the province.

[mylesmalley]

Kick up a fuss with the govt of New Brunswick to get them to lean on Maine against the project.

All I'm saying is that I won't be surprised if this turns into a North vs South fight or rural vs urban. Every hotel, greasy spoon, gas station and tourist trap from Woodstock to Quebec city is going to have a problem with this road. Does this overshadow the huge potential benefits to the overall economy? Not even slightly. But when has rationality or the greater good ever come into play in New Brunswick politics?

The only question I have with regards to the road project is the two border crossings. Saving two hours of driving is great, but it won't be worth the money if you end up spending 1h30 with US Customs and the CBSA. Can the highway be isolated somehow so that you don't need to 'leave' Canada?

[Taeolas]

I doubt it could be 'isolated' because the Calais to Bangor stretch especially would need/want the communities to connect to it and support it. While there are fewer communities in the Bangor to Quebec stretch, what few that would be there would want a piece of the pie too.

Maybe I'm too used to the Woodstock/Houlton border, but I've rarely had more than a 30 minute wait going either way, and the few times it was more than that was on special occasions like holiday weekends and such. As long as the crossing is large enough and staffed enough the waits shouldn't be too bad. Houlton's crossing is more than big enough, but is bogged down by the USian red tape; Woodstock's crossing could use another 2 lanes for peak times, but otherwise doesn't have near as much red tape for the general traveler.

Overall, while Woodstock might be affected, I think they would support this sort of highway easily (since they're on one of the feeder routes from/to central NB. New highway to Bangor to I-95 to the TCH), but further north there would probably be some misgivings, but not enough to stop this one way or another (I hope).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

I think the highway through Maine is certainly worth investigating. The politics are going to get pretty nasty though. Nobody going from the Maritimes (or Newfoundland) by road is going to take the long way around through Edmonston and Gaspé if they can save a couple hours on the trip, unless they're specifically bound for up there. Same goes for people in Ontario and Quebec (west of Sherbrooke) heading to us.

I doubt it'll be a blip on the radar for Quebec City, but it could really hurt a lot of the small towns and villages between Woodstock and QC. Guaranteed they'll kick up quite a fuss. There's also the money that Quebec has sunk into twinning the road between River du Loup and the border, and the money New Brunswick has spent on the road to Edmonston. Take a way essentially all of the truck traffic, and that highway probably looks like a much less attractive investment.

.

A few comments on this:

- The highway through Maine requires Quebec to make upgrades to its highway between Sherbrooke and the border, probably an extension of A-10. What's in it for them? I don't have strong feelings on this - just asking the question.

- Not sure how many out-of-province motorists actually make stops on the stretches of A-20 and A-85/QC-185 east of Quebec City. I have done this route a million times and most of these people seem to stop in Edmundston for a variety of reasons, notably the perception that gas is cheaper there and that service staff in NB will be able to speak to them in English.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

The only question I have with regards to the road project is the two border crossings. Saving two hours of driving is great, but it won't be worth the money if you end up spending 1h30 with US Customs and the CBSA. Can the highway be isolated somehow so that you don't need to 'leave' Canada?

I've never had to wait any considerable amount of time at the border, either at St. Stephen or Woodstock. Longest was probably a half hour.

As a comparison:

Leaving Saint John, driving to Calais, and waiting 15 minutes at the border takes as much time as driving to ~Fredericton/Lake George. It doesn't hurt that highway 1 to the border is going to be twinned by next year. I could theoretically be in the States one way before I reach Fredericton the other.

[Architype]

The NL government has finally released a time frame for completion (meaning paving) of the Trans Labrador Highway - 2019. The section from Lab City to Happy Valley Goose Bay should be done by 2014. Quebec also has plans to complete a new highway along the Quebec north shore, both these plans should help to open up this area.

The provincial government is on track to have the entire Trans Labrador Highway completed by 2019. Transportation Minister Tom Hedderson announced $65 million yesterday to complete Phase I of the project. The paving will be completed in two contracts that will be worked on simultaneously over a two-year period. One will finish paving from Happy Valley-Goose Bay to Churchill Falls; the second contract will complete work from Wabush Junction to Churchill Falls.

Hedderson says Phase 2 is from Red Bay to Cartwright Junction and phase 3 will be from Cartwright Junction into Happy Valley-Goose Bay. Those phases will take about five years to complete.

http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?...22024&latest=1

[MonctonRad]

I look forward to the Quebec government completing the north shore route. I have always wanted to circumnavigate the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

Of course, I have no confidence that this project will be completed in my lifetime (I'm 54).

If completed, I wonder what implications this project would have for the (mostly anglophone) lower north shore Quebec communities. If they have a closer physical connection to the rest of the province, their differences might not be so easily tolerated.......