LA County Is Putting Even More Restrictions On Smoking (And Toking)

[sopas ej]

From LAist:

LA County Is Putting Even More Restrictions On Smoking (And Toking)

BY EMILY ELENA DUGDALE IN NEWS ON MARCH 26, 2019 4:33 PM

Smokers, beware. The L.A. County Board of Supervisors voted today to expand the smoking ban that passed last October.

Smoking will be banned within 25 feet of restaurants and bars in unincorporated areas of the county. That includes e-cigarettes and cannabis.

About one million people — 10 percent of the County's population — live in unincorporated Los Angeles. And even if you don't, you probably work or play pretty close by.

The new rules don't stop at just bars and restaurants. The ordinance expansion now prohibits smoking at all county parks, in county parking lots (and the vehicles parked in them), and within 50 feet of any county building.

In unincorporated areas, the new rules also ban smoking on public beaches, in museums, libraries and public elevators, at bus stops and outside movie theaters and public performance spaces.

Outside the Drawing Room in Los Feliz, patron Kevin Walker was hanging out near a grey standing ashtray, smoking a cigarette.

Walker said he didn't know that if he was just a few miles away in an unincorporated part of L.A. County, pretty soon he wouldn't be allowed to smoke anything.

"It seems kind of aggressive and unnecessary," he said, between drags. "I would prefer if they just let people smoke outside of bars. That's kind of the compromise that people who go to bars make."

[...]

Link: https://laist.com/2019/03/26/smoking...4TBGBKwb84uwew

[Sun Belt]

This is one of those totally unnecessary laws because people will continue to vape anywhere and everywhere and nobody is going to enforce it at all.

Heck most people vape indoors now. I don't think we need a ban in county parks, parking lots and unincorporated areas.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

This is one of those totally unnecessary laws because people will continue to vape anywhere and everywhere and nobody is going to enforce it at all.

Heck most people vape indoors now. I don't think we need a ban in county parks, parking lots and unincorporated areas.

Not if people start reporting it to the police and/or the county health department. Some indoor malls now have signs that say "No Smoking/No Vaping."

Back in 1999 or 2000, a few years after California banned smoking in bars, and several years after California banned smoking in restaurants, my partner and I went to a 24-hour Chinese cafe in Monterey Park (a city with a high Chinese population) after clubbing, so it was probably like around 2:30am or something... but anyway, when we walked in, it smelled like cigarette smoke, and we saw some guys smoking at different tables. Service was bad; we were seated but after maybe 10 minutes we weren't even given menus, and to top it off, we were enduring all that cigarette smoke. So we left. The following Monday, my partner called Monterey Park City Hall and let them know of the restaurant that was allowing its customers to smoke. The person at city hall said that it was a problem in Monterey Park, and said that they would send their police to do some patrols, but the person also suggested to my partner that he notify the LA County Health Department (which he did). Once you get the health department involved, then businesses will start complying.

So, that being said, I think if people started reporting vaping at indoor businesses, and businesses could be fined for allowing it, then eventually probably they will put up signs that say No Smoking/No Vaping.

The city I live in (South Pasadena) prohibits smoking outside of entrances to and operable windows of businesses within 25 feet. There is a pub that used to allow smoking outside of its entrance, even though the law had gone into effect some time ago. I reported that once to the South Pasadena Police Department... I felt it should, because the pub is located in a storefront right on the sidewalk, in a highly-trafficked pedestrian area, with apartments on the 2nd floor of the businesses; if anything, I was feeling for the residents upstairs. Even though I reported it to the police, it didn't seem to help. After maybe half a year, though, I noticed that fewer people were smoking outside of the pub. I figured they must've gotten fined. And they now have signs in their windows that say "No Smoking Within 25 Feet of Entrance."

So, it's an exaggeration to say that "nobody is going to enforce it at all."

[10023]

^ You sound like a lot of fun.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by 10023

^ You sound like a lot of fun.

Because I don't like to be around cigarette smoke, particularly when I'm eating? Because nothing says "sexy" more than cigarette and cigar breath? Pot breath?

[iheartthed]

Outdoor smoking bans are silly. Might as well ban car exhaust too.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Outdoor smoking bans are silly. Might as well ban car exhaust too.

From 2004:
Smoking more toxic than car fumes

And, cars driving by don't stink up a space like cigarette smoking does.

This is also why I don't go to Vegas. The intense cigarette smoke in the casinos and hotels is unbearable for me; my eyes start itching/watering and my nose starts running.

And the outdoor smoking bans seem to be working, at least in California. I don't see people smoking on beaches anymore, which is great. Smokers had been using the sand as their own personal ashtray, so you used to see cigarette butts in the sand in the past. Plus the stinky smoke.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

From 2004:
Smoking more toxic than car fumes

And, cars driving by don't stink up a space like cigarette smoking does.

This is also why I don't go to Vegas. The intense cigarette smoke in the casinos and hotels is unbearable for me; my eyes start itching/watering and my nose starts running.

And the outdoor smoking bans seem to be working, at least in California. I don't see people smoking on beaches anymore, which is great. Smokers had been using the sand as their own personal ashtray, so you used to see cigarette butts in the sand in the past. Plus the stinky smoke.

I am unmoved in my opinion by this. You might as well ban car exhaust.

[10023]

^ Yep. The fact that NYC bans smoking in public parks in the middle of one of the world’s largest urban centers is absurd.

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Because I don't like to be around cigarette smoke, particularly when I'm eating? Because nothing says "sexy" more than cigarette and cigar breath? Pot breath?

Because you’re calling the health department because you smelled smoke when you were at a Chinese restaurant for drunk food at 2:30am. Who are you, Flanders’ wife?

[JManc]

Originally Posted by 10023

^ Yep. The fact that NYC bans smoking in public parks in the middle of one of the world’s largest urban centers is absurd.



Because you’re at a Chinese restaurant for drunk food at 2:30am and you’re calling the health department because you smelled smoke. Who are you, Flanders’ wife?

And guess what happened to Flanders's wife? Deadily-dead! Second hand smoke from Homer sneaking a drag in the back yard.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by 10023

^ Yep. The fact that NYC bans smoking in public parks in the middle of one of the world’s largest urban centers is absurd.



Because you’re calling the health department because you smelled smoke when you were at a Chinese restaurant for drunk food at 2:30am. Who are you, Flanders’ wife?

I'm also very amused when people bitch about cigarette smoke while binge drinking. I'm not a smoker, and I favor indoor smoking bans, but in outdoor areas you're being harmed way more by the alcohol than the faint smell of cigarette smoke.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by 10023

^ Yep. The fact that NYC bans smoking in public parks in the middle of one of the world’s largest urban centers is absurd.

And it's absurd why, now? Is that how you feel about smoking bans at California beaches? Any beach?

Originally Posted by 10023

Because you’re calling the health department because you smelled smoke when you were at a Chinese restaurant for drunk food at 2:30am. Who are you, Flanders’ wife?

Well if you read my previous post, I said we actually OBSERVED people smoking too, in addition to smelling the cigarette smoke. So, uh, I don't know about you, but if a restaurant is blatantly flouting a public health law, then, yeah, I would make it a point to contact the health department.

[suburbanite]

I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable going to an after-hours Chinese restaurant for legally questionable booze if they weren't smoking.

I'm typically alright with where the laws are currently at in most places in North America. Designated smoking spots outside of restaurants/bars, not within ~5 meters of a buildings entrance here.

don't really have a problem with smokers at the beach as long as they're disposing of their butts which is usually not the case.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable going to an after-hours Chinese restaurant for legally questionable booze if they weren't smoking.

I never said we went to an after-hours Chinese restaurant for legally questionable booze. Where did THAT come from?

In case you don't want to read my previous post again, we had gone to a 24-hour Chinese restaurant AFTER we had gone clubbing, to get something to eat. I guess I should have mentioned that we were there to get something to eat.

Incidentally, after we reported the place to the health department, we got a follow-up call from the health department saying they were going to send an investigator during the restaurant's late night hours... and within a few weeks, we noticed the place was closed for a few weeks. We don't know if it was the result of our smoking complaint, or if they had other restaurant inspection issues. At that point in time (in the late 90s), LA County already had instituted the letter grade placard system for health inspections, so, it's possible that while the investigator was there, on top of the smoking going on, maybe he did a routine restaurant inspection too... which, by the way, are random and unannounced. And, those letter grades are what they got at the time of inspection; say a restaurant got a C grade, and then they made the corrections they needed to get an A grade, the C grade displayed will remain in place until the next inspection, which again, is unannounced and random (I think the state requires 2 random inspections per year). This is why restaurant owners at first didn't want the letter grades, because they said it would be bad for business. But if anything, it should be incentive for them to keep their restaurants in order, no?

In the case of a restaurant closing for too many health code violations, it can't reopen again until it's inspected again; and restaurant owners can request an inspection in that case.

[edale]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Not if people start reporting it to the police and/or the county health department. Some indoor malls now have signs that say "No Smoking/No Vaping."

Back in 1999 or 2000, a few years after California banned smoking in bars, and several years after California banned smoking in restaurants, my partner and I went to a 24-hour Chinese cafe in Monterey Park (a city with a high Chinese population) after clubbing, so it was probably like around 2:30am or something... but anyway, when we walked in, it smelled like cigarette smoke, and we saw some guys smoking at different tables. Service was bad; we were seated but after maybe 10 minutes we weren't even given menus, and to top it off, we were enduring all that cigarette smoke. So we left. The following Monday, my partner called Monterey Park City Hall and let them know of the restaurant that was allowing its customers to smoke. The person at city hall said that it was a problem in Monterey Park, and said that they would send their police to do some patrols, but the person also suggested to my partner that he notify the LA County Health Department (which he did). Once you get the health department involved, then businesses will start complying.

So, that being said, I think if people started reporting vaping at indoor businesses, and businesses could be fined for allowing it, then eventually probably they will put up signs that say No Smoking/No Vaping.

The city I live in (South Pasadena) prohibits smoking outside of entrances to and operable windows of businesses within 25 feet. There is a pub that used to allow smoking outside of its entrance, even though the law had gone into effect some time ago. I reported that once to the South Pasadena Police Department... I felt it should, because the pub is located in a storefront right on the sidewalk, in a highly-trafficked pedestrian area, with apartments on the 2nd floor of the businesses; if anything, I was feeling for the residents upstairs. Even though I reported it to the police, it didn't seem to help. After maybe half a year, though, I noticed that fewer people were smoking outside of the pub. I figured they must've gotten fined. And they now have signs in their windows that say "No Smoking Within 25 Feet of Entrance."

So, it's an exaggeration to say that "nobody is going to enforce it at all."

Dumb. Let's put more laws on the books so people can be harassed over things as trivial as smoking a cigarette in front of a bar. You are probably the type that would call the police on people grilling in the park, or a young black girl selling water bottles outside a ballpark. You must know these nuisance laws are enforced differently for poor people, and especially black people, right? Eric Garner was literally killed for selling loose cigarettes- a type of law you would probably not only support, but actively help to enforce by reporting complaints. These crazy bans and laws only serve to advance the police state of this country. But hey, as long as you don't have to smell cigarette smoke while eating drunk Chinese food, who cares right?

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by edale

Dumb. Let's put more laws on the books so people can be harassed over things as trivial as smoking a cigarette in front of a bar. You are probably the type that would call the police on people grilling in the park, or a young black girl selling water bottles outside a ballpark. You must know these nuisance laws are enforced differently for poor people, and especially black people, right? Eric Garner was literally killed for selling loose cigarettes- a type of law you would probably not only support, but actively help to enforce by reporting complaints. These crazy bans and laws only serve to advance the police state of this country. But hey, as long as you don't have to smell cigarette smoke while eating drunk Chinese food, who cares right?

Whoa, where is THIS coming from?

Apples and oranges much??

No, I wouldn't call the cops for people grilling in the park, or a young black girl selling water bottles outside a ballpark. Why would I do that? First of all, none of that is illegal, and 2nd of all, none of that smells like bad cigarette smoke.

I do find it a nuisance going to a supermarket and being accosted by girl scouts trying to sell me their shitty cookies, but that's just something I suck up and move on from.

And drunk Chinese food? WTF?? Haha! It's funny how some of you people assume going clubbing means leaving the club piss-ass drunk! When you eat dinner at 8pm, hang out a bit, go to the club at 10pm, have one or 2 drinks and then dance the rest of the time away, you're gonna get hungry, no?

Drunk food... putang ina!

[Pedestrian]

In Juul crackdown, some see ‘double standard’ for SF smoking rules
Catherine Ho
March 24, 2019 Updated: March 26, 2019 5:02 p.m.

In the past 20 years, San Francisco has banned plastic straws, plastic bags, plastic water bottles, fur, high-capacity gun magazines and cigarettes from pharmacies. Soon, if City Attorney Dennis Herrera and Supervisor Shamann Walton have their way, electronic cigarettes will join the list.

Yet pot, alcohol and soda — which also carry health risks when consumed in excess — are widely available at dispensaries, bars and corner stores. So are traditional cigarettes.

Many, then, are left wondering: Why are some “sins” tolerated but others not? Should city officials outlaw traditional cigarettes while they’re at it? Where should the line be drawn . . . .

San Francisco, though, did embrace the legalization of commercial cannabis sales, creating the Office of Cannabis to handle permitting for cannabis retailers — despite research indicating that exposure to secondhand marijuana smoke can do similar harm to the body’s cardiovascular system as tobacco smoke . . . .

Some health experts say e-cigarettes pose a unique danger and should be regulated aggressively because the harm — getting children who otherwise wouldn’t have started smoking cigarettes to vape nicotine, at a time their brains are especially susceptible to addictive substances — outweighs the potential benefits to adult smokers who vape as a way to quit smoking . . . .

Juul is far from the only San Francisco company to stir outrage from neighbors and local officials. The city struggled to regulate Uber, Lyft and Airbnb in the companies’ early days, and fielded ample political and public pressure to act.

“It’s all part of San Francisco grappling with the fact that a lot of these controversial companies are headquartered in the city and feeling some sense of responsibility for what’s occurring within our city limits, and what we’re exporting to the rest of the world,” said Molly Turner, a lecturer at UC Berkeley Haas School of Business who teaches a course on technology’s impact on cities.

In coming down hard on Juul — a fast-growing company with a $38 billion valuation, 1,100 employees and a new $12.8 billion investment from Big Tobacco’s Altria — some see a city making a statement about social responsibility over economic gain . . . .

. . . the biggest economic hit may be to corner stores and smoke shops, many of which say the potential e-cigarette ban would cause them to lose significant business from repeat customers who regularly buy e-cigarettes and refillable nicotine cartridges . . . .

San Francisco became the first U.S. city in 2018 to ban flavored tobacco after the ballot proposition passed.

“San Francisco inspires other municipalities,” . . . .

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business...d-13718748.php

[10023]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

And it's absurd why, now? Is that how you feel about smoking bans at California beaches? Any beach?


Well if you read my previous post, I said we actually OBSERVED people smoking too, in addition to smelling the cigarette smoke. So, uh, I don't know about you, but if a restaurant is blatantly flouting a public health law, then, yeah, I would make it a point to contact the health department.

Smoking on a beach is only a problem if people are leaving their butts everywhere. Otherwise it does no harm to anyone. And there are already laws against littering. Leaving plastic bags and bottles on a beach is much worse than leaving cigarette butts.

Also, it seems you would not enjoy Europe.

[xzmattzx]

How are they going to enforce this? It's one thing to ban smoking inside restaurants, but another thing to enforce it outside of buildings within a certain space, and in parking lots.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

How are they going to enforce this? It's one thing to ban smoking inside restaurants, but another thing to enforce it outside of buildings within a certain space, and in parking lots.

A lot of this is already the law:

CALIFORNIA LAW

Smoke-free Workplaces, Restaurants & Bars: CA Labor Code 6404.5, (1994, 1998). This State law prohibits smoking and the use of e-cigarettes in enclosed places without exemption, including workplaces, restaurants, bars, warehouses, banquet rooms, and employee break rooms. Restaurants and bars must post no-smoking signs. SF Health Code Article 19F, Sec 1009.22 (2010). No smoking where food is served in outdoor dining areas of restaurants, cafes and coffee shops. No smoking in all bars.

Smoking in the Workplace (2016): CA Labor Code 6404.5 (2016) This law prohibits smoking in a place of employment, including owner-operated businesses. The law eliminates most of the prior specified exemptions that permit smoking in certain work environments such as hotel lobbies, bars and taverns, banquet room, warehouse facilities, and employee break rooms. For more information call (628) 206-7668. Enforcement: Department of Public Health, dial 311 (the City hotline) to report an issue.

Electronic Cigarettes: Business and Professions Code Sec. 22950.5 (2016). The term “smoking” now includes the use of electronic devices such as electronic cigarettes that deliver nicotine or other vaporized liquids.

Smoke-free Playgrounds and Tot Lots: CA Health and Safety Code, Sec. 104495 (2002). This State Law prohibits the smoking of tobacco products within 25 feet of a playground or tot lot sandbox area. It also prohibits the disposal of tobacco-related waste (cigarette butts) in these areas. Enforcement: San Francisco Department of Recreation and Parks (415)-831-2700, dial 0 for the operator.

Smoke-free Cars: CA Health & Safety Code, Sec. 118947-118949 (2008). This state law bans smoking or possessing a lighted pipe, cigar, or cigarette containing tobacco in any motor vehicle in which there is a minor under 18 years old, regardless of whether the vehicle is in motion or at rest.

Smoke-free Public Transit Vehicles, Stations, and Stops: CA Health and Safety Code Sec. 118925-118945 and SF Health Code Article 19F, Sec. 1009.22 (2010). These laws ban smoking on public transit vehicles or at public transit stops and shelters. Enforcement: San Francisco Municipal Transit Authority and Department of Public Health, dial 311 (the City hotline) to report the issue. BART violations, call (877) 679-7000.

SAN FRANCISCO LAW

Electronic Cigarette Usage Prohibited in any Location Traditional Cigarette Usage is Prohibited: SF Health Code Article 19N (2014). The use of electronic cigarettes is prohibited wherever smoking of tobacco products is prohibited by law including Articles 19 et seq. of the Health Code. All limitations and requirements of tobacco availability and promotion apply to electronic cigarettes as well.

Smoke-free Outdoor Events: SF Health Code Article 19L, (2013). Smoking is not permitted at public events on City & County property that require City & County permits, except for neighborhood block parties. Requires event organizers to notify the public that event is smoke-free. For information call: (628) 206-7668. Enforcement: San Francisco Municipal Transit Authority and Department of Public Health, dial 311 (the City hotline) to report the issue.

Disclosure of Landlord’s Designation of Smoke-free and Smoking-optional Multi-Unit Rental Properties: SF Health Code Article 19M (2013). Landlords of multi-unit residential properties, including Single Residency Occupancy Hotels (SROs) are required to: designate all units as smoke-free or smoking-optional: include designation in vacancy listings; and provide a list of smoking-optional units before offering a unit to an applicant. Buildings with 100% smoke-free units are exempt. For information call: (628) 206-7668.

Smoke-free Entrances: SF Health Code Article 19F, Sec. 1009.22 (2010). Smoking permitted only at curb of commercial, multi unit residential and mixed use building entrances, exits, operable windows and vents. If there is no curb, no smoking within 15 feet of entrances, exits, operable windows and vents. California Government Code Sections 7596-7598 (2004). This State Law prohibits smoking within 20 feet of main entrances, exits and operable windows of city, county and state buildings. For more information call (628) 206-7668. Enforcement: owners must post signage and enforcement should occur at the building owner/manager level. Click here to order free ‘no smoking’ signs from the Department of Public Health.

Smoke-free Public Transit Vehicles, Stations, and Stops: CA Health and Safety Code Sec. 118925-118945 and SF Health Code Article 19F, Sec. 1009.22 (2010). These laws and ordinances ban smoking public transit vehicles or at public transit stops and shelters. Enforcement: San Francisco Municipal Transit Authority and Department of Public Health, dial 311 (the City hotline) to report the issue.

Smoke-free Taxis: SF Health Code Article 19F, Sec. 1009.22 (2010). This ordinance bans smoking in taxicabs and other motor vehicles for hire. Enforcement: San Francisco Municipal Transit Authority, dial 311 (the City hotline) to report the issue.

Smoke-free Charity Bingo Games: SF Health Code Article 19F, Sec. 1009.22 (2010). No smoking during charity bingo games. Enforcement: San Francisco Department of Public Health, dial 311 (the City hotline) to report the issue.

Smoke-free Service Waiting Lines: SF Health Code Article 19F, Sec. 1009.22 (2010). No smoking within designated areas where customers are required to wait to do business including at ATMs ticket lines, movie theater lines, athletic event lines, concert event lines, and at cab stands.

Smoke-free Tobacco Shops: SF Health Code Article 19F, Sec. 1009.22 (2010). No smoking in tobacco shops other than a handful that were exempted in writing by the Department of Public Health prior to 2010. For more information call (628) 206-7668. Enforcement: Department of Public Health, San Francisco. (415) 252-3800.

Smoke-free Farmers Markets: SF Health Code Article 19F, Sec. 1009.22 (2010). No smoking at all farmers markets.

Smoke-free Common Areas of Multi-Unit Residences: SF Health Code Article 19F, Sec. 1009.22 (2010). No smoking in enclosed common areas of multi unit residences including common halls, elevators, parking areas, lobbies, waiting areas, bathrooms, cooking, dining, lounge, laundry facilities, and recreation areas. Tenant smoking in their private unit must keep front door of their private unit closed while smoking. Enforcement: San Francisco Department of Public Health, dial 311 (the City hotline) to report the issue.

Smoke-free Public Housing: SF Public Housing Authority Admissions and Continued Occupancy Policy (2010). All new leases will state that premises and any interior common areas, including but not limited to individual units, community rooms, community bathrooms, lobbies, reception areas, hallways, laundry rooms, stairways, offices and elevators, occupied by Resident, members of Resident’s household and any guest of the Resident shall be smoke free.

Smoke-free Public Golf Courses: SF Health Code Article 19I, Sec. 1009.81 (2006). This ordinance bans smoking on public golf courses. For information call the San Francisco Recreations & Parks Department at 415-831-2700, dial 0 for the operator.

Tobacco Free Parks and Recreation Athletic Fields: SF Health Code Article 19I, Sec. 1009.81 (2006). This ordinance bans smoking in unenclosed areas under the jurisdiction of the City, including parks, squares, gardens, sport or playing fields. Enforcement: San Francisco Recreations & Parks Department at 415-831-2700, dial 0 for the operator.

Smoke-free Piers, Wharfs, Dock, Bulkhead, or Marine Facility: SF Police Code Article 1, Sec. 55 (1944). It shall be unlawful for any person to smoke, carry or possess a lighted cigar, cigarette, or pipe, or to smoke tobacco or any other similar substance in any form, or to ignite any match or mechanical lighter on or in any wharf, pier, dock, bulkhead, or marine facility. Enforcement: San Francisco Police Department, dial 311 (the City hotline) to report the issue.

https://sanfranciscotobaccofreeproje...-control-laws/