HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Texas & Southcentral > San Antonio


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #701  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2022, 2:01 PM
theOGalexd theOGalexd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 446
[QUOTE=forward looking;9788804][QUOTE=theOGalexd; So it has always,always, been not merely now. San Antonio has always been the forgotten poorer cousin of Houston and Dallas. Always. Since as far back as I can remember, it has always been. Jobs paid better in those two cities, money flowed more freely there and The Big D and Houston grew faster and bigger and richer- and now, Austin. Austin's population in 1964 was 80,000 for instance. San Antonio's population was 400,000 in 1964.
[/QUOTE]

Houston and Dallas definitely make sense, at least now (not sure how it stacked up 40-50 years ago). Finance and big oil plus they're like 2-3x the size. I guess it probably doesn't help that SA is overshadowed by them (and Austin now to a degree) versus cities like Charlotte and Nashville that are the flagships of their state.

I really disliked SA for a long time when I was younger but after traveling and seeing how the city has grown, my opinion on it has done a 180. Don't get me wrong I still have my gripes about it lol, but I don't think it deserves the reputation that it once had.

My curiosity really just lies in what ways can boost the cities profile and make it more appealing to younger people. I feel like the W Hotel would have been a big win for the city, it's too bad it got axed.

Maybe the tourism board just needs to invest into more influencer marketing lol.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #702  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2022, 10:57 PM
Restless One Restless One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 278
[QUOTE=theOGalexd;9789225]
Quote:
Originally Posted by forward looking View Post

Houston and Dallas definitely make sense, at least now (not sure how it stacked up 40-50 years ago). Finance and big oil plus they're like 2-3x the size. I guess it probably doesn't help that SA is overshadowed by them (and Austin now to a degree) versus cities like Charlotte and Nashville that are the flagships of their state.

I really disliked SA for a long time when I was younger but after traveling and seeing how the city has grown, my opinion on it has done a 180. Don't get me wrong I still have my gripes about it lol, but I don't think it deserves the reputation that it once had.

My curiosity really just lies in what ways can boost the cities profile and make it more appealing to younger people. I feel like the W Hotel would have been a big win for the city, it's too bad it got axed.

Maybe the tourism board just needs to invest into more influencer marketing lol.
Not exactly sure here, but I would cite the lack of higher education in SA from the early 19th century through the middle to later 20th century. Here is a timeline of ACCD:

https://www.alamo.edu/about-us/our-district/history/

Now, IWU, Trinity, and St Mary's were all founded mid 1800's, but not sure how accessible these were. UTSA was only founded around 1968 or so, so perhaps the lack of higher educational opportunities slowed the growth of San Antonio. At least as far as attracting high wage jobs and company HQ's, leaving Tourism, and its low wage jobs, and the Military, which, were higher wage, and not much in between.

I would also put some blame on a poorly run airport in the seventies. But that's just me.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #703  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 2:02 AM
forward looking forward looking is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 334
As a part time resident of a Detroit suburb I view this as one doozie of a dumb assed post, to put the shoe on the other foot, at the bare minimum too. To say the least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theOGalexd View Post
Money? Specifically Oakland county? What has money got to do with it? Oakland County has nothing of note to visit in it. Maybe the Holocaust Museum?
And. Furthermore, Detroit is not "dangerous to a degree" only. It is a very dangerous place, particularly at night. Merely drop you off at the intersection of Grand River Avenue and Grand Blvd at one a.m. and you would develop new sprinting skills that you never knew you had. Just a few years ago there were forty thousand abandoned houses marked for demolition in Detroit. Lots of these have homeless living inside them. Dark too. Look on you tube.
Detroit has many things to do, and I've done them all. It is THE place to be.
Maritime sailors Cathedral made famous through the song "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" is there. A bridge to Canada. Belle Isle which is an Island in the middle of the Detroit River which is bigger than Central Park of N.Y.-
The anchor from the famous shipwreck is at a museum on Belle Isle.
General Motors World Headquarters, a magnificent circular skyscraper with an upscale revolving restaurant at its' top. The building was bought off of Ford Motor Company. This building has an elevated (forty feet?) electric rail running between buildings, through, the G.M. building. Yes.
This building above is located on the Detroit River on their Riverwalk and; inside the center of the first floor is a circular revolving turnstile , huge, offering all of G.M.'s current offerings in autos and trucks sitting for consideration. Salesmen offering them. Upscale dining at the top (what a view!)and even a McDonalds offering food to the poor you've described here I suppose, all this- on the first and second floors in an open space design. Very elegant.Their River walk is wide and the office workers can be seen going for a walk there for exercise. A big rear paddle wheel boat is sitting,waiting, for rides, gambling and dining going over the top of a Two mile wide blue,blue,blue, water river, with huge ocean bound carriers steaming by. Fish being pulled out of the River,one after the other, every May.
Just west of downtown, through Mexicantown, all ethnic groups have a neighborhood, is the Henry Ford Museum, one of Americas greatest museums. A national treasure, known simply as "The Ford". I always purchased annual memberships until the pandemic hit. It was shutdown for a long time. The greatest collection of Americana anywhere.This was Henry's baby and he looked over every aspect of its' creation- no expense was spared and it is still owned by the Ford Family today. The museum is gigantic, really, and there are always license tags from all over the country there beginning every spring.
The Ford family just sold their Detroit Lions football team. Also. Year round professional sports games. Detroit Tigers Baseball, Detroit Red Wings Hockey.
The River itself is gorgeous, in the true sense of the word. Awesome. Detroit is a French word meaning "The straits".

Oakland County? One should not enter things here about which one has no knowledge.

even though there's extreme poverty in some parts of town, there's a hell of a lot of money on the N/NW side, Alamo Heights/Olmos Park/Terrell Hills and Boerne/New Braunfels.



You can kind of make a similar case with Detroit. Most people completely write it off and think it's dangerous (which is true to a degree) but there's a lot of places in the metro area that are extremely nice (specifically Oakland County) that people don't even think about.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #704  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 4:14 AM
theOGalexd theOGalexd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 446
Who said all that stuff about the city of Detroit? lol.

I can't find that post on here.

My whole point was that Birmingham/Bloomfield Hills specifically are very nice places but people that have never been to Detroit write off the whole metro as some dangerous slum. Not sure what the whole tizzy with Oakland County is about
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #705  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 3:54 PM
forward looking forward looking is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 334
A little bit of knowledge can be ridiculous,

Who would want to market Birmingham or Bloomfield
Hills ,mi as representative of the Detroit area or Michigan? What is the big draw for tourism there? Nothing. Unremarkable. Bland.

Here's what your next step should be. You ought to call the City of Detroit's Tourism marketing team and tell them to change its' entire approach. Enlighten them. Let them know what you think. After that, people might fly immediately from the entire country in droves to see Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills,mi. These ideas just haven't occurred to them is all. I can just see it.
The City of Detroit itself hasn't anything to sell itself with. You were absolutely right in your presumptions.
Great ideas need to be shared.


Quote:
Originally Posted by theOGalexd View Post
Who said all that stuff about the city of Detroit? lol.

I can't find that post on here.

My whole point was that Birmingham/Bloomfield Hills specifically are very nice places but people that have never been to Detroit write off the whole metro as some dangerous slum. Not sure what the whole tizzy with Oakland County is about
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #706  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 6:01 PM
Dan In Real Life's Avatar
Dan In Real Life Dan In Real Life is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Lost in Texas
Posts: 141
Logged into a San Antonio discussion board, but found a conversation about Detroit?
__________________
The further society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it. - George Orwell
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #707  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 6:14 PM
theOGalexd theOGalexd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by forward looking View Post
Who would want to market Birmingham or Bloomfield
Hills ,mi as representative of the Detroit area or Michigan? What is the big draw for tourism there? Nothing. Unremarkable. Bland.

Here's what your next step should be. You ought to call the City of Detroit's Tourism marketing team and tell them to change its' entire approach. Enlighten them. Let them know what you think. After that, people might fly immediately from the entire country in droves to see Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills,mi. These ideas just haven't occurred to them is all. I can just see it.
The City of Detroit itself hasn't anything to sell itself with. You were absolutely right in your presumptions.
Great ideas need to be shared.
I have no idea. I'm not here to be the voice of metro Detroit lol. I've been there once and just noted it was a nice area. I couldn't even tell you what the tourism draw to Detroit would be besides the automotive industry.

My whole point was the average person doesn't even know upscale places like that exist. It's the same story with Chicago, I lived there multiple times in the city and suburbs and I've had people from San Antonio tell me that they were genuinely scared to go there. In the case of Chicago it has a thriving downtown and nice neighborhoods within in the city to point them to, you don't need to go to Winnetka or Hinsdale to be in a safe area with nice shops/restaurants/whatever. It seems Detroit proper is becoming more desirable but it definitely wasn't when I went there. The Pistons still played at the Palace in those days lol.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #708  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 11:28 PM
Restless One Restless One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan In Real Life View Post
Logged into a San Antonio discussion board, but found a conversation about Detroit?
LIKE^^^^

To be fair, this is also a skyscraper website, where the San Antonio contingent celebrates five story infill DT pretty regularly. Weird things happen here.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #709  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 6:52 AM
theOGalexd theOGalexd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan In Real Life View Post
Logged into a San Antonio discussion board, but found a conversation about Detroit?
Apparently making a San Antonio comparison to Oakland County, MI was offensive but hey I guess there's not much else to talk about right now lol
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #710  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 9:04 PM
forward looking forward looking is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 334
Yes, there is not much on here anymore since King Kirby stopped posting. It has become entirely to dry and uninteresting place with no sense of imagination or originality. I have supposed Kirby became upset with everybody on here when no one except himself showed up for the Skyscraper Forum member meet and greet , a short time back. Not that I blame him, some even said they would show up for a meeting downtown and then did not.
No,no...no. Your recommendation of Oakland County as the place to visit rather than the concept of the generally stereo- typical ghetto image of Detroit that comes to mind of people, well, struck as the epitome of an Uninformed opinion here. Yes the entry was funny, as uninformed opinions can sometimes come across as. Many,many times .
The Polish immigrant Community of Detroit can be of particular interest, they even issued even their own monetary units at one time, in the past.
The City of Detroit was mistakenly entered into folly here and so I fired back in my own, hometown San Antonio Skyscraper forum. This is after all a forum for we, the people of San Antonio.
Oakland County, Michigan is as bland,dull, sliced white bread, a place as one can think of .Dull and not interesting. I would not present Bloomfield Hills as a destination.
As one can readily recognize, Detroit City is the eye of the storm when destinations to the metro are mentioned.
San Antonio is as innocent as the driven snow as far as City politics or inner city crime statistics and poverty go, contrasted to the Motor City.
So as you see it was ridiculousness not offense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theOGalexd View Post
Apparently making a San Antonio comparison to Oakland County, MI was offensive but hey I guess there's not much else to talk about right now lol
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #711  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 9:35 PM
theOGalexd theOGalexd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by forward looking View Post
Yes, there is not much on here anymore since King Kirby stopped posting. It has become entirely to dry and uninteresting place with no sense of imagination or originality. I have supposed Kirby became upset with everybody on here when no one except himself showed up for the Skyscraper Forum member meet and greet , a short time back. Not that I blame him, some even said they would show up for a meeting downtown and then did not.
No,no...no. Your recommendation of Oakland County as the place to visit rather than the concept of the generally stereo- typical ghetto image of Detroit that comes to mind of people, well, struck as the epitome of an Uninformed opinion here. Yes the entry was funny, as uninformed opinions can sometimes come across as. Many,many times .
The Polish immigrant Community of Detroit can be of particular interest, they even issued even their own monetary units at one time, in the past.
The City of Detroit was mistakenly entered into folly here and so I fired back in my own, hometown San Antonio Skyscraper forum. This is after all a forum for we, the people of San Antonio.
Oakland County, Michigan is as bland,dull, sliced white bread, a place as one can think of .Dull and not interesting. I would not present Bloomfield Hills as a destination.
As one can readily recognize, Detroit City is the eye of the storm when destinations to the metro are mentioned.
San Antonio is as innocent as the driven snow as far as City politics or inner city crime statistics and poverty go, contrasted to the Motor City.
So as you see it was ridiculousness not offense.

Haha I hear you, I wasn't trying to make an argument for it being a tourist destination. Birmingham, Royal Oak or Troy wouldn't be an ideal place to putz around for a weekend as a tourist, I agree with that. But to live in? Personally I wouldn't mind it if I had to live in that area, but different strokes for different folks. I was just making a comparison to some of the nice suburban areas in San Antonio and it's amenities that people don't even know exist when they come here.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #712  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2022, 2:47 AM
LSP's Avatar
LSP LSP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 45
Teacher here. I regularly use Mr. Beat videos in my lessons. Well today, he uploaded a video I thought too interesting not to share.

Video Link
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #713  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2022, 6:36 PM
forward looking forward looking is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 334
But of course you were. Those areas you have been speaking of in the Detroit suburbs are merely nice residential areas. That is it. No more. With Troy,mi , not even that nice.
Surely, not up to the amenities of La Canterra located in a City which is known for its' leisure activities. You see. Detroit is not marketed in the same way at all. Even if Detroit was founded 10 years before San Antone was founded -by France, as a fur trading settlement. Besides, it is at least for half the year very cold in Michigan. One might golf in a parka I suppose.
Unlike San Antonio, Detroit surely is NOT usually a tourist destination. It is that famous ghetto stereotypical opinion again. People who fly into Detroit come here for business, obviously. Usually to the Big Three or to one of their many suppliers.
Detroit City: has all of the remarkable locations. The Riverwalk has its' own police station as has Belle Isle, its' huge park. Two crime free areas.
For the record,while Detroit has a gorgeous Riverwalk to be sure, impressive on a scale far beyond San Antonio's, it hasn't nearly the innate charms.
Family visits might be the reason for going to Detroit. Everyone I have ever spoken to on a flight were on board for these two purposes, business or family. An overnight stay might be the only good reason to visit Oakland County, for a place to sleep.
Oakland County has one single very famous golf course, Oak Hills, believe it or not, is the name of it.

One morning a Japanese businessman was leafing through a pamphlet while we were aboard already, so I spoke up to him. He was a very nice guy and after a while I asked him why Japan had been stuck in such dire economic doldrums for the past few decades.
Short was the answer. " Because we have no immigration".

Quote:
Originally Posted by theOGalexd View Post
Haha I hear you, I wasn't trying to make an argument for it being a tourist destination. Birmingham, Royal Oak or Troy wouldn't be an ideal place to putz around for a weekend as a tourist, I agree with that. But to live in? Personally I wouldn't mind it if I had to live in that area, but different strokes for different folks. I was just making a comparison to some of the nice suburban areas in San Antonio and it's amenities that people don't even know exist when they come here.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #714  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2023, 10:03 PM
Keegan-B-SATX Keegan-B-SATX is offline
TEXAS BORN AND RAISED
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 32
My Idea for SA Airport

IF I HAD $10 BILLION DOLLARS AND FULL CONTROL OVER SA AIRPORT EXPANSION

This is my first time posting an image on this forum so sorry in advance if it doesn't come out clear. I will get the hang of this.

I'm a lifelong SA resident who gets tired of our city thinking too small. We always get half ass designs that are cheap, with a lack of vision. This thinking puts SA second fiddle to other cities in the Texas and the country. So when I heard our city wants to expand SA International I was hoping for a design that is unique, futuristic, and bold. I haven't seen any finalized renderings or layouts so I figured I'd come up with my own.

I first redid the Runway and Tarmc layout to Maximize terminal Space. Demolishing or Relocating Existing buildings as needed.



Next for the Terminals, my first design is based off a local plant you're probably familiar with.

THE AGAVE


I'm open to any thoughts and constructive criticism.
Feel free to offer your own design ideas and I can try and recreate it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #715  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2023, 10:59 PM
JACKinBeantown's Avatar
JACKinBeantown JACKinBeantown is offline
JACKinBeantown
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 8,847
I applaud the effort. With that said, here's some constructive criticism:

• The gates are too close together.
• The ends of the terminals come to points, leaving no room for passengers to sit, etc.

I hope there's tequila with The Agave.


https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VSV81UBmV...600/source.gif
__________________
Hi.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #716  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2023, 2:30 PM
Keep-SA-Lame's Avatar
Keep-SA-Lame Keep-SA-Lame is offline
COGSADCAJA- Publicist
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,116
Absolutely love the agave concept. Unfortunately there's not local demand for even half that number of gates (I think even the City's IRL plan is going to leave us with excess capacity for decades). And unless you're a middle eastern dictator building a vanity project airport, your airport does generally need to be able to pay for itself via gate fees etc. It's not a matter of playing second fiddle to our neighbors, it's being realistic about what the underlying economic conditions of the region can support. San Antonio is by far the poorest of the major Texas metros, and the less money you have the less flights you can buy, it's really that simple and has nothing to do with the physical airport itself. Dog wags the tail, not the other way around.

Edit: Took a closer look at your first map, which raised some alarms. That whole wooded area to the north is Salado Creek. Bulldozing that would be an ecological disaster since it's some of the last crumbs of intact riparian habitat left on the north side. Apart from that, it's a major floodplain, so even if you do what we usually do and assign a value of $0 to the natural world, building in a flood plain is a bad idea, particularly in this part of the world (I've seen Salado Creek at full flood twice in my life, and it's a sight to behold believe me). Anything you might do to mitigate that risk would be costly. If you can't fit any of those relocated facilities in at SAT, maybe there's a spot at Stinson or Kelly for them? I feel like there was a proposal at some point in the murky past to relocate cargo ops to Kelly. So if we're building a crazy number of gates, let's go ahead and wave the magic wand and banish cargo to Kelly. Or even just acquiring private land around the airport, like off Nakoma, would probably be more cost effective and safe than building in the Salado flood plain.

Last edited by Keep-SA-Lame; Jan 11, 2023 at 2:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #717  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2023, 3:48 PM
JACKinBeantown's Avatar
JACKinBeantown JACKinBeantown is offline
JACKinBeantown
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 8,847
Speaking of the airport; I have a foggy memory from when I was a little kid in the 70s of a shortcut you could take from Wetmore Road that went across airport property, so you didn't have to use the main airport entrance.

I did a little snooping and came across this map. It shows Crownhill Blvd in the location I think I remember. Is my memory correct?


http://dallasfreeways.com/dfwfreeway...ntonio_med.jpg
__________________
Hi.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #718  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2023, 4:02 PM
Keep-SA-Lame's Avatar
Keep-SA-Lame Keep-SA-Lame is offline
COGSADCAJA- Publicist
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,116
The USGS maps on Caltopo show that road still there around 1985:
https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=29.5...46985&z=17&b=t (Select "scanned topos" from the menu on the right).

Google Earth has limited historical imagery but it's clearly not there in 1995, the first year there's legible aerial imagery for the area. So sometime between 1985 and 1995 that road was closed (lol).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #719  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2023, 6:27 PM
texboy texboy is offline
constructor extrodinaire!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keegan-B-SATX View Post
IF I HAD $10 BILLION DOLLARS AND FULL CONTROL OVER SA AIRPORT EXPANSION

This is my first time posting an image on this forum so sorry in advance if it doesn't come out clear. I will get the hang of this.

I'm a lifelong SA resident who gets tired of our city thinking too small. We always get half ass designs that are cheap, with a lack of vision. This thinking puts SA second fiddle to other cities in the Texas and the country. So when I heard our city wants to expand SA International I was hoping for a design that is unique, futuristic, and bold. I haven't seen any finalized renderings or layouts so I figured I'd come up with my own.

I first redid the Runway and Tarmc layout to Maximize terminal Space. Demolishing or Relocating Existing buildings as needed.



Next for the Terminals, my first design is based off a local plant you're probably familiar with.

THE AGAVE


I'm open to any thoughts and constructive criticism.
Feel free to offer your own design ideas and I can try and recreate it.
Oddly enough, where you have terminal G is not too far off from where a future terminal D could actually be located. a decade ago or so, one of the options on the table for future expansion presented a future terminal D in that location and had the maintenance and cargo facilities moving to the north airfield. That plan (unless SA just explodes in the next 2 decades) is probably 30 to 40 years into the future at minimum.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #720  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2023, 9:07 PM
JACKinBeantown's Avatar
JACKinBeantown JACKinBeantown is offline
JACKinBeantown
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 8,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame View Post
The USGS maps on Caltopo show that road still there around 1985:
https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=29.5...46985&z=17&b=t (Select "scanned topos" from the menu on the right).

Google Earth has limited historical imagery but it's clearly not there in 1995, the first year there's legible aerial imagery for the area. So sometime between 1985 and 1995 that road was closed (lol).
Thanks! I found this old aerial that shows a road there. I'm just not sure it it had public access from Wetmore. It doesn't seem like the FAA would have allowed that, but then again I'm talking about nearly 50 years ago.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...ure-id78051500

I also found this old map. The road sure seems to be there. It's marked as BM 781.
(Sorry for the size. I don't know how to post it smaller.)

https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/img4/ht_icons..._24000_geo.jpg
__________________
Hi.

Last edited by JACKinBeantown; Jan 11, 2023 at 9:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Texas & Southcentral > San Antonio
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:12 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.