HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Downtown & City of Ottawa


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #361  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2021, 8:45 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 12,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
Ottawa is going to look a lot like this by the time Roderick is finished with it.
LOL. Ottawans have low standards. So....
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #362  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2021, 8:53 PM
Harley613's Avatar
Harley613 Harley613 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gatineau, QC
Posts: 3,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
That would be ghastly and not allow for a reallocation and addition of space. They have 867 275 sqft of retail space. Developed properly they could probably keep at least half a million square feet of retail, maybe even add to it. And they should be able to throw in an equal amount of office space as retail and double the amount of residential space.
They do not have anywhere near 867,275 sq ft. of retail space, try more like 500,000 and change INCLUDING the empty Sears. So much of the GLA at St. Laurent is non-retail. Herzing College, Cinestarz movie theatre, Canada Games/Skate Canada/Intact Insurance offices, sears underground warehouse, Goodlife Gym, a bunch of professional services.'

Edit: Just checked their current leasing brochure and it states 376,950 sq. ft. of CRU (commercial retail unit) tenants. Whether or not that is current and accounts for all the empty stores I don't know.
https://assets.mallmaverick.com/syst...pdf?1539625054
__________________
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/d.harleydavis/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #363  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2021, 9:38 PM
bikegypsy's Avatar
bikegypsy bikegypsy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I lived in Ottawa not too far from there for a time in my childhood.

It was once a grand 1970s mall in the typical style of that era.
Indeed. My family lived nearby in the early 80s and it still had some life back then, although you could feel its decline. It reminds me of Place Versailles in Montreal, although Saint Laurent (and the neighborhood) is not nearly as drab and bleak.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #364  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2021, 9:43 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,893
As we move shopping away from transit nodes to suburban power centres along with general employment to similar business parks, transit becomes less relevant no matter how many condos we build at LRT stations. If those condo residents need to use a car to go to the business park jobs (example DND) and to shop at the power centres, they too will not be using transit. Unless jobs and retail are reasonably centralized, urbanization will not really be successful.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #365  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2021, 12:40 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 12,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
As we move shopping away from transit nodes to suburban power centres along with general employment to similar business parks, transit becomes less relevant no matter how many condos we build at LRT stations.

If those condo residents need to use a car to go to the business park jobs (example DND) and to shop at the power centres, they too will not be using transit. Unless jobs and retail are reasonably centralized, urbanization will not really be successful.
There's now condos being built with less parking than there are units. It's actually rare to see anything but single family homes that have space for 1 car or more per dwelling. There's a proposed development on Cyrville of all places with zero parking for residents. Transit is becoming more relevant. Not less.

Yes, there's some suburban office parks. But by and large the generations that are coming detest them. There's a reason that companies like Shopify will spend tens of millions to locate in the core rather than a suburb. That's where their employees want to work. And increasingly where they live too. In the long run, suburban office parks are probably the most vulnerable to the Work From Home trend going forward because they are the least conveniently located.

As for suburban power centres. Just like malls they are reaching their limits. It's not just online shopping. Young people are increasingly not getting driver's licenses. And the larger a city gets, the less they need to drive. And even if they do drive, they might not own a car full time. Charsharing, ridesharing, etc. is all supplementing transit and active mobility too. All that means is that the days of spontaneously driving to power centre are coming to an end. And that will hurt the power centres in due course. The best case scenario for most of them is to evolve into lifestyle centres like Shops at Don Mills in Toronto. But then those are easy to add residential to. The privatized open spaces suck. But they are at least better than the traditional mall or power centre.

Ultimately though, there's no getting around the fact that we are substantially over-provisioned with retail space. And there will have to be readjustments in what we allocate space to. This is unsustainable on so many levels:






Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
They do not have anywhere near 867,275 sq ft. of retail space, try more like 500,000 and change INCLUDING the empty Sears. So much of the GLA at St. Laurent is non-retail. Herzing College, Cinestarz movie theatre, Canada Games/Skate Canada/Intact Insurance offices, sears underground warehouse, Goodlife Gym, a bunch of professional services.'

Edit: Just checked their current leasing brochure and it states 376,950 sq. ft. of CRU (commercial retail unit) tenants. Whether or not that is current and accounts for all the empty stores I don't know.
https://assets.mallmaverick.com/syst...pdf?1539625054
I absolutely agree that they could do with less retail. Realistically, there's stores in there that would close and never come back if the mall closed. They should probably be aiming to keep less than 300k sqft in retail space. And then aim to add a minimum of one housing unit for every 50 sqft of retail and 2-3x as much in commercial office space. Morguard should be looking to wring out more value from this site. That mall really can't be delivering that much in return to them. And it's probably going to be worse post-pandemic.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #366  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2021, 9:46 AM
acottawa acottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,623
I don’t think there is a lot of evidence that companies are abandoning the suburbs. Shopify has largely abandoned brick and mortar altogether.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #367  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2021, 11:59 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 12,324
We haven't even close to begun the full full rationalization of office space post pandemic.

There's always going to businesses in those suburban office parks. The question is whether they can attract any density of jobs. I'm deeply skeptical that they will be able to do that when there's much more transit oriented commercial development options to choose from.
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Downtown & City of Ottawa
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:56 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.