Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia - Pros and Cons

fenwick16 · #1 Posted **Jul 1, 2014, 2:31 PM**

I think the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia (HTNS) is too focused on preventing new development in Halifax and saving views from the Citadel than saving old buildings. I like the mix of old and new buildings in Halifax and I am in favour of heritage preservation however I think that it has to be done through a joint venture of developers and heritage advocates instead of through constant fighting.

Here is the stated mandate of the HTNS - http://www.htns.ca/about.html. At this moment, I can't think of anything good to say about the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia so here is another example of their failure as a Heritage advocate.

Historic signal station to be demolished

CTV Atlantic
Published Monday, June 30, 2014 7:14PM ADT
Last Updated Monday, June 30, 2014 7:50PM ADT

After 10 years of trying to save the structure, the plug has been pulled on the Commercial Cable Station in Hazel Hill, Nova Scotia.

It was built in 1888 and for more than 70 years, it relayed all telegraph messages between North America and Europe, including news of the Titanic sinking.

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source and full story: http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/historic-...#ixzz36E6sWWla

MonctonRad · #2 Posted **Jul 1, 2014, 3:22 PM**

Agree wholeheartedly.

I saw on the news the other night how this cable station is about to be demolished. This is absolutely unconscionable, and would not occur if this building were not in an isolated far flung part of the province.

The historical significance of this building is unquestionable. It needs to be preserved. The Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia needs to reorder their priorities!!!

To top it all off, the cable station looks like an interesting building that should be preserved as much on architectural merit as on historical significance. This is a travesty.

Drybrain · #3 Posted **Jul 1, 2014, 6:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I like the mix of old and new buildings in Halifax and I am in favour of heritage preservation however I think that it has to be done through a joint venture of developers and heritage advocates instead of through constant fighting.

That spirit of cooperation is something the Trust doesn't seem to get, at all. They should be working to promote more effective heritage legislation, rally the public to conservation of important buildings before it's verging on too late, and work alongside politicians and developers to promote adaptive re-use generally, and work toward the salvage and re-use of specific endangered buildings.

Saving Morris House is the only project I can think of in living memory in which they've achieved something tangible.

Otherwise, they're clearly a little clubhouse with no ability to engage the outside world. They just publish their little Griffin newsletter, for what I imagine must be a tiny number of readers, and either through disinterest or cluelessness (I won't venture to guess which) barely engage the public otherwise.

hollistreet · #4 Posted **Jul 1, 2014, 8:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I think the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia (HTNS) is too focused on preventing new development in Halifax and saving views from the Citadel than saving old buildings. I like the mix of old and new buildings in Halifax and I am in favour of heritage preservation however I think that it has to be done through a joint venture of developers and heritage advocates instead of through constant fighting.

Here is the stated mandate of the HTNS - http://www.htns.ca/about.html. At this moment, I can't think of anything good to say about the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia so here is another example of their failure as a Heritage advocate.

Historic signal station to be demolished

CTV Atlantic
Published Monday, June 30, 2014 7:14PM ADT
Last Updated Monday, June 30, 2014 7:50PM ADT

After 10 years of trying to save the structure, the plug has been pulled on the Commercial Cable Station in Hazel Hill, Nova Scotia.

It was built in 1888 and for more than 70 years, it relayed all telegraph messages between North America and Europe, including news of the Titanic sinking.

.
.
.

source and full story: http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/historic-...#ixzz36E6sWWla

This needs to be a headline story on the news. HTNS is nothing but a self centred group of @&$ /()?- who do nothing to promote preservation of our built heritage.
Any one with media connections should push this forward.

fenwick16 · #5 Posted **Jul 1, 2014, 8:37 PM**

There is a website for the Commercial Cable Station with information on how to contribute - http://www.ccrsociety.ca/support/

I sent them a message to see if there is still a chance of restoring this building. I asked if donations will go towards demolition or restoration. Hopefully there is still a chance of restoring it.

Drybrain · #6 Posted **Jul 1, 2014, 9:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenwick16

There is a website for the Commercial Cable Station with information on how to contribute - http://www.ccrsociety.ca/support/

I sent them a message to see if there is still a chance of restoring this building. I asked if donations will go towards demolition or restoration. Hopefully there is still a chance of restoring it.

That'd be cool--I didn't even know this existed.

A quick, self-interested reminder for those who care: I'm meeting, along with several others, with Labi Kousoulis, the minister making the call on the Dennis, this week. Anyone who'd like to make the case for selling and/or restoring the building, rather than demolishing it, is welcome to come.

Or just deluge the minister with emails indicating support for saving it.

ILoveHalifax · #7 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 12:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drybrain

That'd be cool--I didn't even know this existed.

A quick, self-interested reminder for those who care: I'm meeting, along with several others, with Labi Kousoulis, the minister making the call on the Dennis, this week. Anyone who'd like to make the case for selling and/or restoring the building, rather than demolishing it, is welcome to come.

Or just deluge the minister with emails indicating support for saving it.

Can I come and tell Labi how I agree with demolition?

Drybrain · #8 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 1:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

Can I come and tell Labi how I agree with demolition?

Sorry, you`ll have to make a separate appointment for that. Though really, I don`t know why you`d be happy to see a building demolished and replaced with a parking lot, which is probably what will happen. There are no plans to rebuild anything on the site and the province isn`t interested in getting the private sector involved. There`s nothing to gain from demolition, development-wise or economically. It`ll just be another hole.

Colin May · #9 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 11:57 AM**

[QUOTE=fenwick16;6637943]I think the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia (HTNS) is too focused on preventing new development in Halifax and saving views from the Citadel than saving old buildings. I like the mix of old and new buildings in Halifax and I am in favour of heritage preservation however I think that it has to be done through a joint venture of developers and heritage advocates instead of through constant fighting.

Here is the stated mandate of the HTNS - http://www.htns.ca/about.html. At this moment, I can't think of anything good to say about the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia so here is another example of their failure as a Heritage advocate.

Oh dear, quite the mistake you made. The link you provide is not the correct one.
This is the link : http://www.htns.ca/pdf/membership/HT...aws%202012.pdf

Keith P. · #10 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 12:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin May

Oh dear, quite the mistake you made. The link you provide is not the correct one.
This is the link : http://www.htns.ca/pdf/membership/HT...aws%202012.pdf

Mr. May, those are the bylaws. Not much about their mandate. Thirteen standing committees! No wonder they are incapable of getting anything done.

JET · #11 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 2:10 PM**

http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/hac/...eport00367.pdf

This is a case example that helps to explain why so much of our built heritage is lost. The house was registered, the HRM staff recommended against demolition, and council agreed to the request by the owner to demolish. While it may still be there, there is no ability to keep it there. Owners really do get what they want. My take on the Heritage Trust is that they fight the good fight, and as Gandhi said: "Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." I applaud their efforts, even if the results are sometimes minimal.

Ziobrop · #12 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 4:29 PM**

there has to be a balance between progress and heritage. in this case though the building was in good condition, it was not particularity unique to the area.

The Dennis, Halifax Infants, and the Commercial Cable station are all part of larger historical landscapes, are unique, and worth preserving. I personally can stand to see the odd old house or 2 lost, to save these bigger landmarks.

OldDartmouthMark · #13 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 4:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

there has to be a balance between progress and heritage. in this case though the building was in good condition, it was not particularity unique to the area.

The Dennis, Halifax Infants, and the Commercial Cable station are all part of larger historical landscapes, are unique, and worth preserving. I personally can stand to see the odd old house or 2 lost, to save these bigger landmarks.

I agree to a point. I can see both sides of the issue for this particular house, but really feel it would be best served to somehow include the structure into the new development to preserve that part of the streetscape. But yes, you can't save every old house, especially the ones that are too far gone to ever bring back. The more significant structures, IMHO, should be saved regardless of the challenges faced to restore or repurpose them.

While there certainly seems to be a lot of derision towards the Heritage Trust, it seems that some of it has been earned but not all of it. It seems to me that the weak heritage laws and lack of foresight and appreciation for our heritage buildings by our civic leaders has every bit as much to do about it.

Perhaps the first step should be to get the laws changed, but there would likely be much resistance to that. One might imagine that there could be a lot of behind-the-scenes "activity" that could cause resistance to strong and functional laws meant to actually protect our heritage buildings.

Sometimes it makes me really lose faith that the best interests of the city are being looked out for.

Regarding the telegraph building, I don't understand why a building of that nature wouldn't be a federally protected heritage site. Telegraph service is a very significant part of our heritage and buildings such as this will never be built again. I am disgusted by this.

Colin May · #14 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 5:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Mr. May, those are the bylaws. Not much about their mandate. Thirteen standing committees! No wonder they are incapable of getting anything done.

Read the HT reports and you will see what they have done.
And look at this for a clarification as to what by-laws are ( the same as the MOA) http://www.fusionhalifax.ca/site-fh/...of%20Assoc.pdf

Ziobrop · #15 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 5:53 PM**

Heritage needs to be debated.
Issues need to be made public
HTNS Fails in this. Most of their website dates back to 2010 - its not current, they have limited presence in social media, they are not actively engaging the media on heritage issues in a timely manner, nor are they pushing publicly for improved legislation.

Regarding working with developers, there appears to be no middle ground. by demanding 100% preservation they loose an opportunity to work towards a better development/heritage protection. 22 commerce square could do a better job of preserving some of the buildings, but by taking a firm position that they all must be saved, they have set them selves up to loose on smaller gains.

FWIW I read a piece in their newsletter bemoaning the loss of heritage homes and Estates due to the construction of the south end rail cut. Much research went into this, and it was interesting to discover what was lost, but that bit of editorialization about an event that occurred almost 100 years ago is a bit much, but sadly reflective of HTNS attitude.

Hali87 · #16 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 6:30 PM**

Did anyone else see the full-page ad calling out the Heritage Trust in today's Herald?

Hali87 · #17 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 6:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

Heritage needs to be debated.
Issues need to be made public
HTNS Fails in this. Most of their website dates back to 2010 - its not current, they have limited presence in social media, they are not actively engaging the media on heritage issues in a timely manner, nor are they pushing publicly for improved legislation.

Regarding working with developers, there appears to be no middle ground. by demanding 100% preservation they loose an opportunity to work towards a better development/heritage protection. 22 commerce square could do a better job of preserving some of the buildings, but by taking a firm position that they all must be saved, they have set them selves up to loose on smaller gains.

FWIW I read a piece in their newsletter bemoaning the loss of heritage homes and Estates due to the construction of the south end rail cut. Much research went into this, and it was interesting to discover what was lost, but that bit of editorialization about an event that occurred almost 100 years ago is a bit much, but sadly reflective of HTNS attitude.

Agree 100%. I wonder if the HTNS has any members under the age of 40? This would help to explain not only the very entrenched attitudes but also the lack of social media use/awareness. If there was say, a membership drive for young people, I wonder if this would change anything or whether the only real solution is to start a second heritage advocacy group that does what the HT is supposed to.

Also, a bit ironic considering the recent demolition at SMU:

Quote:

The Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia was formed in 1959 in response to the proposed demolition of Enos Collins' Halifax House Gorsebrook, an outstanding Georgian-style home that stood on the site of today's Saint Mary's University hockey rink (see photo above right). Those who formed the Trust were determined to arrest the random decimation of Nova Scotia's built heritage.

(From the HTNS website)

JET · #18 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 6:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

Heritage needs to be debated.
Issues need to be made public
HTNS Fails in this. Most of their website dates back to 2010 - its not current, they have limited presence in social media, they are not actively engaging the media on heritage issues in a timely manner, nor are they pushing publicly for improved legislation.

Regarding working with developers, there appears to be no middle ground. by demanding 100% preservation they loose an opportunity to work towards a better development/heritage protection. 22 commerce square could do a better job of preserving some of the buildings, but by taking a firm position that they all must be saved, they have set them selves up to loose on smaller gains.

FWIW I read a piece in their newsletter bemoaning the loss of heritage homes and Estates due to the construction of the south end rail cut. Much research went into this, and it was interesting to discover what was lost, but that bit of editorialization about an event that occurred almost 100 years ago is a bit much, but sadly reflective of HTNS attitude.

I'm a bit confused by your comments; you note that most of Heritage Trust's website dates back to 2010 - its not current; but then you note that you were reading their most recent newsletter (June 2014; http://htns.ca/pdf_Griffin/2014/GRIFFIN.jun.2014.pdf) this newsletter has very interesting info: Dennis Building, New Library, Commerce Square, Infants Home, early aerial photography of Halifax; all very interesting, well written, conciliatory, and topics that are often referred to in the Skyscraper forum. The newsletter seems very current, I'm unclear why you say it is not.

Drybrain · #19 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 6:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hali87

Did anyone else see the full-page ad calling out the Heritage Trust in today's Herald?

Yeah. I agree with their sentiment re: the Heritage Trust, but at the same time I think the ad was bullshit.

NIMBYism and opposition exist all over the country, and as I've said before, I genuinely don't believe they're more prevalent in Halifax. Toronto and Vancouver especially are full of irrational NIMBYism. I think for developers (who generally get what they're looking for regardless) to take out an ad complaining about engaged citizens (even if those citizens are often unreasonable) is BS.

And it adds to the fuel to the weird arguments of those who argue "old buildings hold us back" or whatever.

There was also a big "save the forum" ad a few pages before that, funnily.

Drybrain · #20 Posted **Jul 2, 2014, 6:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET

I'm a bit confused by your comments; you note that most of Heritage Trust's website dates back to 2010 - its not current; but then you note that you were reading their most recent newsletter (June 2014; http://htns.ca/pdf_Griffin/2014/GRIFFIN.jun.2014.pdf) this newsletter has very interesting info: Dennis Building, New Library, Commerce Square, Infants Home, early aerial photography of Halifax; all very interesting, well written, conciliatory, and topics that are often referred to in the Skyscraper forum. The newsletter seems very current, I'm unclear why you say it is not.

Yeah, but who reads the newsletter? They're speaking to a tiny, tiny circle of like-minded people who subscribe to it, and reaching nearly no one else.