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  #2781  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2013, 3:19 AM
ArtDecoRevival ArtDecoRevival is offline
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Originally Posted by NewYorque View Post
Honestly it is completely stupid to wait for tenants in order to resume the construction.

A building, no matter what it is, how it is or where it is, WILL ALWAYS find tenants sooner or later. .
Really? Tell that to Detroit.

Look, I agree with your basic argument that more than likely the buildings would eventually fill up, but it's extremely poor planning to rely on a "gut feeling" like that. If 2WTC got built and then was left mostly empty for a decade or two (like the Empire State AKA the "Empty State Building" was), it would take twice as long in this economy to recoup all its losses.
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  #2782  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2013, 4:12 AM
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Really? Tell that to Detroit.

Look, I agree with your basic argument that more than likely the buildings would eventually fill up, but it's extremely poor planning to rely on a "gut feeling" like that. If 2WTC got built and then was left mostly empty for a decade or two (like the Empire State AKA the "Empty State Building" was), it would take twice as long in this economy to recoup all its losses.
The yearly upkeep on an empty building this size must be enormous.
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  #2783  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2013, 5:38 AM
cadiomals cadiomals is offline
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Originally Posted by ArtDecoRevival View Post
Really? Tell that to Detroit.

Look, I agree with your basic argument that more than likely the buildings would eventually fill up, but it's extremely poor planning to rely on a "gut feeling" like that. If 2WTC got built and then was left mostly empty for a decade or two (like the Empire State AKA the "Empty State Building" was), it would take twice as long in this economy to recoup all its losses.
With all the new office development that's supposed to be popping up over the next ten years (even though the New York economy is not expected to grow tremendously), I share these fears. It is my hope that many companies will take an interest in revitalizing downtown and returning it to the vibrant place it once was, motivated to take part in making New York whole again while knowing this is a special place, not just any old office space. I'm not sure if that will be enough incentive
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  #2784  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2013, 7:41 AM
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Originally Posted by StoOgE View Post
Wow, the lessons of the real estate collapse of 5 years ago are already lost?

Billion dollar speculative office projects do not happen and are a terrible idea if you want to actually keep your money. That, and good luck getting a bank to finance such a project.
I think peoples train of thought comes from seeing what is going on in Dubai or China. Where projects get built and sit empty. In the U.S., it does not work this way nor would it be financially savvy to say the least. I can understand why some think this way that it should just be built and sit empty until something comes by but that's a huge risk. What if nothing does happen? On a multibillion dollar project that is a risk that is not to be taken lightly.
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  #2785  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2013, 8:06 PM
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Looks like we may be waiting longer...


http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-h...9/SS-2-362445/

Citigroup Nears Renewing Lease on New York Space
CitigroupInc. is close to a deal to renew its lease and consolidate some of its offices at a large lower Manhattan office complex owned by SL Green Realty Corp.


By Eliot Brown
October 23, 2013


Quote:
After a lengthy search for office space, Citigroup Inc. is close to a deal to renew its lease and consolidate some of its offices at a large lower Manhattan office complex owned by SL Green Realty Corp., according to multiple executives briefed on the search.

If the renewal deal is completed at 388-390 Greenwich St., it would be one of the largest leases in years in New York. If Citigroup had decided to leave, SL Green would have been left to fill the entire 2.6 million square-foot property.

The deal isn’t final and could still collapse, people familiar with the situation said. The bank had also considered other locations, including a new office tower planned by developer Related Cos. on Manhattan’s far west side and the planned 1,349-foot 2 World Trade Center tower that is awaiting a major tenant to move forward, the executives said.

The complex, which is in the TriBeCa section of lower Manhattan, includes a 40-story tower and 10-story building. It used to be the headquarters of Travelers Group, which merged in 1998 with what was then Citicorp. Today, Citigroup houses its investment bankers, traders and others in the property, which would undergo an overhaul if the deal is finalized.

Citigroup’s headquarters are in midtown Manhattan at 399 Park Ave, and the bank leases hundreds of thousands of square feet in other buildings, including 601 Lexington Ave., formerly named Citicorp Center, and 111 Wall St. The bank would move employees from some of its other offices in the area to the TriBeCa complex in a move to shed space.

The deal comes at a time when the financial-services industry is shrinking in New York, much to the disappointment of real-estate owners and city officials who count on the sector to be a major engine of growth. Millions of square feet of space that used to be occupied by banks like J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. and Bank of America Corp. are on the market.

Citigroup zoomed in on SL Green’s buildings after a search that lasted more than a year. In recent weeks, Citigroup narrowed its focus to 388-390 Greenwich and 2 World Trade Center, which is being planned by Silverstein Properties Inc. SL Green and Silverstein each made presentations to Citigroup’s board within the past two weeks, people familiar with the presentations said. In recent days, Citigroup informed Silverstein that its tower was out of the running and began negotiating only with SL Green, the executives said.

Despite the extensive search, many onlookers considered a renewal always to be the likeliest of outcomes given that new construction would be more expensive—a hard sell at a time when the financial sector is looking to find savings wherever it can.

Specifics of the deal being discussed with SL Green couldn’t be learned, although people familiar with the discussions said the landlord offered to remake the 1980s-style lobby of 388 Greenwich, among other changes.

The complex was built in the late 1980s for Shearson Lehman Brothers. That bank was bought by Travelers. In late 2007, Citigroup sold the complex to SL Green and a Canadian pension-fund investor now known as Ivanhoe Cambridge for $1.6 billion and signed a lease that runs through 2020. It is unclear how many years the new lease would add to that lease.
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  #2786  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2013, 6:12 AM
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How disappointing! Didn't even know that other building existed at all. I think some of these big banks are getting lazy (of course, we already knew that.) This now means Bank of America outshines Citigroup in NYC.
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  #2787  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2013, 6:37 AM
ArtDecoRevival ArtDecoRevival is offline
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Wow, what an absolute bummer. Every time I try to be more of an optimist, I'm reminded why I'm an eternal pessimist. I'm not going to get my hopes up again, unless a deal is finalized. Tired of being let down time and time again with this complex.
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  #2788  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2013, 11:53 AM
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I can't blame them as the WTC2 costs would be too much. I had a feeling our worst case situation of the tribeca complex would occur. Maybe some foreign company in the future would consider it. One not based in the U.S. who has money to burn.
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  #2789  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2013, 9:15 PM
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^Yea, verily.
I was thinking the same thing all along, and now it has to be spoken loudly and clearly:
Silverstein's PR people absolutely *must* put out feelers towards overseas investors if this part of the Complex has any chance of going up before Silverstein hops the twig...if that.
I cannot understand why he's been so loathe to pursue that option.
Well, he'd better start doing what should not have been shunted to plan Q status, but seemingly has been.
Not wise for a man who wants to see the whole thing up and ready to go before he lays his head on the pillow and closes his eyes for the last time.
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  #2790  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2013, 10:28 PM
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^ Believe me, Silverstein wants this tower up more than any of us, and I'm sure they will leave no stone unturned in their quest to land a tenant.
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  #2791  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2013, 10:38 PM
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Oh I agree too....it's just that for the option I ranted on above not to have been actively prusued by now---at least to the point that the search would've gotten the attention of the local media (i.e. at least YIMBY and the like)---puzzles me a bit.
Maybe he's doing things in a rather hushed manner so as to avoid the shitstorm that would indeed ensue with a possible false alarm hot of the presses.
BTW: Boo on Citi. They seem to not know a golden oppotunity if it walked right up to their glazed donut-hole eyeballs and split their braincases in twain with a dwarven mattock..........
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  #2792  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2013, 6:13 AM
StoOgE StoOgE is offline
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BTW: Boo on Citi. They seem to not know a golden oppotunity if it walked right up to their glazed donut-hole eyeballs and split their braincases in twain with a dwarven mattock..........
Disagree.

Citi made a smart move financially. If you can get the space you need in relatively new office building (80s) for a fraction of the cost and without having to move all of your staff (since a good chunk is already there) than it is the move to make.

I wish they took 2WTC for selfish reasons as well, but you can't blame them for making the smart financial decision.
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  #2793  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2013, 4:47 PM
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Oh I agree too....it's just that for the option I ranted on above not to have been actively prusued by now..
Do you honestly think we have access to all marketing of office space? We have no idea the work and effort that goes on behind the scenes to market these buildings. What you see in the press is just that - what's in the press. Usually these things aren't mentioned, and when they are it's from the person looking to lease space - they want it known they have options. If Silvrstein had signed a deal, you would see it in the press with statements directly from Silverstein Properties.
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  #2794  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2013, 9:19 PM
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Good pernts, doze.
I suppose it shows how media savvy I'm *not*.......
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  #2795  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2013, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Do you honestly think we have access to all marketing of office space? We have no idea the work and effort that goes on behind the scenes to market these buildings. What you see in the press is just that - what's in the press. Usually these things aren't mentioned, and when they are it's from the person looking to lease space - they want it known they have options. If Silvrstein had signed a deal, you would see it in the press with statements directly from Silverstein Properties.
The thing is when it comes to prices. It seems as the city grows on the West Side, which I would imagine in terms of leases is cheaper than WTC2, it kinda messes up the prospects of landing the tenant. Kinda like a trade off. Midtown or Lower. I could see smaller companies or firms slowly building up to the minimum space required for lift off. A big tenant would just as one forum-er pointed rather take the newer modern space for less offered in Midtown or even 80's space and not get ripped off.
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  #2796  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2013, 9:36 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
The thing is when it comes to prices. It seems as the city grows on the West Side, which I would imagine in terms of leases is cheaper than WTC2, it kinda messes up the prospects of landing the tenant. Kinda like a trade off. Midtown or Lower. I could see smaller companies or firms slowly building up to the minimum space required for lift off. A big tenant would just as one forum-er pointed rather take the newer modern space for less offered in Midtown or even 80's space and not get ripped off.
2WTC can't really compete with the Hudson Yards as Related is offering office space at cost. Silverstein ain't gonna do that.
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  #2797  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2013, 9:41 PM
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Silverstein ain't gonna do that.
Not only is he not gonna do it, but he can't. He has a minimum lease amoutn required to get financing assistance from the city and state (PA) for tower 3, and to get financing for tower 2 he will have to charge market rates. What Related is doing with the railyard towers is unique because they are counting on making money with the residential towers there, not the office space. Silversein's towers compete with everything from existing office space to new space being offered like Brookfield's Manhattan West towers.
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  #2798  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2013, 5:00 AM
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I was hoping they would leave so their awful building in Tribeca would perhaps be demolished. It's really ugly and does not fit in Tribeca at all.

Also, their HQ is a dump compared to Bank of America...surprised they didn't want something nice.
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  #2799  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2013, 5:09 PM
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  #2800  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2013, 6:45 AM
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Originally Posted by hunser View Post
2WTC can't really compete with the Hudson Yards as Related is offering office space at cost. Silverstein ain't gonna do that.
Why can related offer office space at cost?
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