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  #361  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2020, 11:17 PM
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Yeah, it has a larger footprint than Vanderbilt, but much smaller than 270 Park. Setbacks and tapering will thin it out as it reaches the top.



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  #362  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2020, 12:09 AM
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I have a feeling it will taper to the north so not to fully block views of Chrysler ground level from the west, therefore perhaps ending up a building like 200 Amsterdam, a building that has an old school but modern feel. This building will have a retro look to a certain extent I'm sure and not be a another giant blue glass building....
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  #363  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2020, 12:32 AM
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I would prefer a chamfered or rounded corner at 42/Lex
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  #364  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2020, 1:53 AM
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  #365  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2020, 9:30 PM
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So there's no risk they'd build out only 25% of the plot and go straight up? That could still look impressive I suppose. We've earned a classic Gotham tower here. Something like the Miglin-Beitler Skyneedle.
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  #366  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2020, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Yeah, it has a larger footprint than Vanderbilt, but much smaller than 270 Park. Setbacks and tapering will thin it out as it reaches the top.
Assuming it's the blue square it doesn't look like a bigger footprint than 1V by very much, only marginally. With nearly 1M extra SF this has to be big. Are we certain that it'll taper / have setbacks or is that just speculation? Could be even taller if so. As Visionist mentioned I'm also thinking something sky needle-esque.
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  #367  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Assuming it's the blue square it doesn't look like a bigger footprint than 1V by very much, only marginally. With nearly 1M extra SF this has to be big. Are we certain that it'll taper / have setbacks or is that just speculation? Could be even taller if so. As Visionist mentioned I'm also thinking something sky needle-esque.
Well, the footprint of the hotel itself is larger than the Vanderbilt site, but it's not as if it's twice the size larger. It will taper, either trough setbacks, or general tapering, like Vanderbilt. City zoning is very rigid. It's why when developers get to the approvals stage, they already have a basic idea of the massing of a proposed tower. If it's outside of the zoning envelope (city mandated setbacks and height limits on sheer walls) they will need to get special permits to build outside of that.

There may not be height limits overall, but there are limits on certain aspects of a tower, both height and width. There are also shadow studies, view corridors, and other visual impacts that are taken into account during the approvals stage.



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So there's no risk they'd build out only 25% of the plot and go straight up? That could still look impressive I suppose. We've earned a classic Gotham tower here. Something like the Miglin-Beitler Skyneedle.

This will be largely an office tower, with the hotel reportedly going to be at the base. The office floors will likely offer the same, high ceiling heights that Vanderbilt offers. There won't be as much a need for the massive floors like the towers in the Hudson Yards. The design of the hotel I'm curious about, because you know every room has to have a window, its why when you look at the designs of most of these hotels, they aren't large blocks. We'll see.



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  #368  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 12:52 AM
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It will taper, either trough setbacks, or general tapering, like Vanderbilt. City zoning is very rigid. It's why when developers get to the approvals stage, they already have a basic idea of the massing of a proposed tower. If it's outside of the zoning envelope (city mandated setbacks and height limits on sheer walls) they will need to get special permits to build outside of that.

There may not be height limits overall, but there are limits on certain aspects of a tower, both height and width. There are also shadow studies, view corridors, and other visual impacts that are taken into account during the approvals stage.

Hopefully there are sheer walls and setbacks and tapering kind of like 270. I'm not gonna lie I like sheer walls straight up. Maybe one side will be that and the other sides will get thinner.

I forget if Tower Fifth has been approved already, if not, it may be hard considering that's a sheer half a kilometer wall on all sides basically. Referring to the City zoning rigidity that is.
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  #369  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 12:55 AM
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^ Tower Fifth hasn't been approved, but it doesn't really rise from the ground up. 432 Park Avenue is set back, people always forget it has a base, and covers a small portion of the site. The WTC was a state development that superseded city laws.

The reason so many towers have setbacks goes all the way back to the zoning of 1916, and it goes more extensive than that.
https://buildingtheskyline.org/tag/1...ing-ordinance/


More throwbacks to the Commodore...



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  #370  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 4:26 AM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Well, the footprint of the hotel itself is larger than the Vanderbilt site, but it's not as if it's twice the size larger. It will taper, either trough setbacks, or general tapering, like Vanderbilt. City zoning is very rigid. It's why when developers get to the approvals stage, they already have a basic idea of the massing of a proposed tower. If it's outside of the zoning envelope (city mandated setbacks and height limits on sheer walls) they will need to get special permits to build outside of that.

There may not be height limits overall, but there are limits on certain aspects of a tower, both height and width. There are also shadow studies, view corridors, and other visual impacts that are taken into account during the approvals stage.






This will be largely an office tower, with the hotel reportedly going to be at the base. The office floors will likely offer the same, high ceiling heights that Vanderbilt offers. There won't be as much a need for the massive floors like the towers in the Hudson Yards. The design of the hotel I'm curious about, because you know every room has to have a window, its why when you look at the designs of most of these hotels, they aren't large blocks. We'll see.





Maybe there will be an interior atrium like the conrad downtown in BPC but on steroids for the hotel portion. which could also bump up the height.
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  #371  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 12:15 PM
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Maybe there will be an interior atrium like the conrad downtown in BPC but on steroids for the hotel portion. which could also bump up the height.
Yeah, I was thinking about that too. If they're gonna rebuild the hotel, may as well make something nice. Can't wait to see designs.
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  #372  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 12:57 PM
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I assume that it will be a Park Hyatt like at One 57. Isn't that Hyatt's top brand?
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  #373  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 1:36 PM
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Get Kauffman to design it
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  #374  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 12:51 AM
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I could be wrong, but it looks like the four lots mentioned - all MTA properties - will be merged into a single lot for the development. That last part specifies the development site. If that's the case, it would explain why the tower would be larger than the specified 27 FAR. Also, there would really be no need for the transfer of development rights from Grand Central. They'll just squeeze whatever they can build onto the Hyatt site. There will be a need for the elevator space for both the hotel and the office tower portions. Maybe the hotel entrance will be on 42nd, and the main office entrance on Lexington, with a sky-lobby giving access to the upper floors. And there's a streetwall to be maintained possibly. So much to account for with the design.








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  #375  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 2:55 PM
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It will be interesting to see the design given the location. Have they chosen the architect? My guess is it will be bottom heavy since it is next to Chrysler and the taller portion will be adjacent to the Grand Central terminal.
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  #376  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 3:45 PM
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I really hope that the crown is at least 1,600'.
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  #377  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 3:56 PM
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I'm guessing the firm could be KPF, they did Vanderbilt and 343 Madison. Foster has 270, 425, and 350 Park. Those have been the most active on the east side, as far as new office towers go. But they could surprise us. Whoever it is, I just want a good, quality design, something to take the excitement up a bit.
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  #378  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 4:08 PM
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Hoping for somebody different, It'd be nice if all our big office buildings weren't be designed by KPF or Norman Foster..
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  #379  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 7:11 PM
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Hoping for somebody different, It'd be nice if all our big office buildings weren't be designed by KPF or Norman Foster..
I vote Adrian Smith
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  #380  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 7:44 PM
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I still think Kaufman should design it.

Or Stern. Yeah maybe Stern.
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