Why isn't Chicago...greater than it currently is in 2023?

[destroycreate]

Ok, don't come for me--just hear me out.

We hear about cities like Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, etc. blowing up. People are "fleeing" LA/SF and NYC for cheaper cost living enclaves.

What I don't get it is...why doesn't Chicago seem to have more pull? It is a world class city, truly urban through and through, offers traditional cosmopolitan major city life, and save it for a few crime-ridden parts, is pretty safe and most importantly exceptionally affordable for a city of its kind. Atlanta is apparently the land of $36k-salaried millionaires, but who wants that when you can live in an urban brownstone-lite in a compact neighborhood in Chicago that boasts the arts, transit, culinary enclaves and more? If I'm also understanding correctly, you can find McMansions galore in the Chicago ex-urbs too.

Anecdotally, when I speak to people in Seattle, LA, SF, or SD, I rarely hear anybody yearning to move to Chicago. But they'll be open to relocating to Austin, Dallas or Miami.

Is it just the weather? Is that honestly such a big deal for people? Lack of higher paying jobs? To me, Chicago is an amazing city which I think most us can agree on--but shouldn't it be exploding with growth and becoming a major go to? It seems like it's just been sort of stagnant—growth seems more like a slow burn than making front page news stories.

[sentinel]

Oh boy..

[Crawford]

Chicago is great. I believe it's still a Top 10 global economy. If you're one of the Top 10 economies on earth, you're doing pretty well.

That said, I'd disagree if you're arguing that Chicago is unusually cosmopolitan, safe or affordable. It isn't provincial, dangerous or expensive, either, but on all three counts, if those are your primary criteria, you can do about as well in other places.

IMO Chicago's biggest attractions are that it's probably the only U.S. city not on the coasts that's a "real city", it probably has the second largest traditional urban core in the Americas, and it couldn't be more central.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

But they'll be open to relocating to Austin, Dallas or Miami.

All of those have 1) lower taxes, 2) nicer winters, 3) less crime (or at least the perception of), than Chicago.

The combination of those factors is likely why people move to those cities rather than to Chicago.

Actually, given you mentioned that the reason you know that people on the West Coast are wanting to move to "Austin, Dallas or Miami" is because they tell you about it during casual conversations, why don't you use those opportunities to get your answer straight from the horse's mouth as to why they aren't choosing Chicago instead?

Ask them, not us!

[uaarkson]

Chicago is also probably in the top 3 when it comes to architecture.

[SIGSEGV]

For a lot of people I know (as opposed to the tucker Carlson crowd who would never consider it)the weather. They either grew up in the south or on the west coast and are irrationally scared of winter, despite never having experienced it.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

Ok, don't come for me--just hear me out.

We hear about cities like Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, etc. blowing up. People are "fleeing" LA/SF and NYC for cheaper cost living enclaves.

What I don't get it is...why doesn't Chicago seem to have more pull? It is a world class city, truly urban through and through, offers traditional cosmopolitan major city life, and save it for a few crime-ridden parts, is pretty safe and most importantly exceptionally affordable for a city of its kind. Atlanta is apparently the land of $36k-salaried millionaires, but who wants that when you can live in an urban brownstone-lite in a compact neighborhood in Chicago that boasts the arts, transit, culinary enclaves and more? If I'm also understanding correctly, you can find McMansions galore in the Chicago ex-urbs too.

Anecdotally, when I speak to people in Seattle, LA, SF, or SD, I rarely hear anybody yearning to move to Chicago. But they'll be open to relocating to Austin, Dallas or Miami.

Is it just the weather? Is that honestly such a big deal for people? Lack of higher paying jobs? To me, Chicago is an amazing city which I think most us can agree on--but shouldn't it be exploding with growth and becoming a major go to? It seems like it's just been sort of stagnant—growth seems more like a slow burn than making front page news stories.

From what I understand, Chicago is indeed exploding with growth/a major go to city -- for the highly educated millennials, mostly whites and Asian-Americans. That's why the downtown areas, including near south, west, and north sides remain fairly vibrant. However, that growth does not offset the exodus of lower and middle class, mostly African- Americans, and the cessation of high Latino immigration that benefited Chicago in the prior decades before 2000. That's why the south and west sides that are not adjacent to downtown have serious crime and blight issues that the city is having a hard time to resolve.

[TexasPlaya]

Not just Chicago but a lot of the Midwest. Just the inertia of new america vs old america.

[destroycreate]

Originally Posted by lio45

All of those have 1) lower taxes, 2) nicer winters, 3) less crime (or at least the perception of), than Chicago.

The combination of those factors is likely why people move to those cities rather than to Chicago.

Actually, given you mentioned that the reason you know that people on the West Coast are wanting to move to "Austin, Dallas or Miami" is because they tell you about it during casual conversations, why don't you use those opportunities to get your answer straight from the horse's mouth as to why they aren't choosing Chicago instead?

Ask them, not us!

Their answer is usually that is “sounds” too cold or “American Pie” if I’m being brutally honest. But most of them have never visited or spent serious time there.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

[A] lot of people... are irrationally scared of winter, despite never having experienced it.

My sister finished college in Austin, married her boyfriend, and moved to Chigago so he could attend the School of the Art Institute. That was in 1977. Just in time for a couple of REALLY bad winters, including the Bilandic fiasco. For a whole winter, they only saw the roof of their Chevy Vega peaking out above the snow and ice. Our family had lived in Toronto just five years earlier. Chicago's winter was much worse.

I never forgave my sister for moving back to Texas and depriving me of a free place to stay in that wonderful city.

[chris08876]

Maybe global warming will make Chicago a prime destination, especially once millions of folks need to relocate.

But in all seriousness, a lot of folks underestimate the idea of perception. Chicago's weak leadership and rampant crime does deter folks outside of the gated communities of downtown and the lake front communities/neighborhoods in which the high cost of living relative to the surroundings requires higher caliber folks. It's why the suburbs see much better growth in Chicagoland.

I doubt the winters are a massive factor, but schools are. At least in the city proper.

The city is still a massive powerhouse and growing, but the true potential is not really there because of other glaring factors. Considering its a bargain version of NYC for what you get urban wise, that not many other cities can hold a candle to. Chicago offers much but the potential could be much grander...

It just needs the right folks in power there to bring it back to sanity and to attract even more business and residents.

[ChiSoxRox]

People tend to be weaklings about winter.

I love winter, which is one of the reasons Chicago is high on my list of cities once I get through this Boston post doc. Boston itself is delightfully walkable -- but the housing here is literally overvalued.

[goat314]

Cold weather, highly segregated (racially and economically), and it's just a mature, legacy city (which usually means slower growth).

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

For a lot of people I know (as opposed to the tucker Carlson crowd who would never consider it)the weather. They either grew up in the south or on the west coast and are irrationally scared of winter, despite never having experienced it.

I never understood folks being afraid of winter, versus say a humid, mars like conditions of South Carolina or Texas.

The winters might be harsh, but there's the rest of the year. A fine trade off considering it could be continuously hot and humid all year.

Folks move to the South for housing opportunity and because its much cheaper to live. Although the heat... eh... if that's what people like, go for it.

I doubt the humid and hot weather is a major factor.

[R1070]

Most of the booming growth in DFW is suburban. And the options available here for quality suburban living is top notch. I don't think Chicagoland can offer the same thing in that regard. It does have a much better traditional urban core than Dallas or Fort Worth, but that doesn't seem to be what these "refugees" are looking for.

[goat314]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Not just Chicago but a lot of the Midwest. Just the inertia of new america vs old america.

This, it's the reason that places like Detroit, St. Louis, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, etc. are not attracting a lot of new growth and investment. They are just mature, legacy cities, and despite them being interesting as hell and dynamic in their own right, they are not the clean, easy slate that you find in a city like Nashville, Charlotte, Denver etc.

[SFBruin]

Delete.

[TexasPlaya]

Folks aren't afraid of the winters, just seems like a hassle.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by R1070

Most of the booming growth in DFW is suburban. And the options available here for quality suburban living is top notch. I don't think Chicagoland can offer the same thing in that regard. It does have a much better traditional urban core than Dallas or Fort Worth, but that doesn't seem to be what these "refugees" are looking for.

Chicagoland has tons of Dallas-style sprawl. And probably a bit cheaper at this point. Lots of McMansion development on the prairie perimeter.

But Chicagoland also has tons of traditional, tree-lined, railroad-oriented suburbia, which essentially doesn't exist in Dallas (or TX or the Sunbelt).*

*I mean, it sorta exists, but it's considered in-town living. Highland Park or Buckhead or Beverly Hills are basically Winnetka, but the growth trajectories have been so different that the prewar suburbia is now almost considered core. And these communities are rare enough in the Sunbelt that they're usually extremely expensive.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Folks aren't afraid of the winters, just seems like a hassle.

It's not more of a hassle than Florida/Texas summers. Trust me

"Perception is reality", though. Whether it's about Chicago crime or Chicago winters.