Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by new brisavoine

^^when did the plq start to become a major party in québec? I'm curious how long they were a major ruling party (supposing they will now become an insignificant fringe party).

1867

but it has been independent of the federal Liberal Party of Canada since 1955.

[New Brisavoine]

But when did they have their 1st Québec PM? I can't think of any PLQ PM before the 1960s.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

But when did they have their 1st Québec PM? I can't think of any PLQ PM before the 1960s.

1878

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...iers_of_Quebec

[Kilgore Trout]

The PLQ had an unbroken 39-year streak in power from 1897 to 1936. That period included the governments of Gouin and Taschereau, both long-serving Liberal premiers. After Duplessis' brief first term from 1936 to 1939, Adélard Godbout came to power in WWII and instituted a number of reforms that served as a prelude to the Quiet Revolution: his government gave women the right to vote, nationalized electricity providers to create Hydro-Québec, made education free and compulsory for children, and legalized labour unions. Godbout is really overlooked but he was one of Quebec's most important premiers, and he pushed through a lot of change in just four years. His Liberal Party was enlightened and progressive – pretty much the opposite of the corrupt right-wing beast created by Jean Charest.

[New Brisavoine]

^^So when did the PLQ become the pro-federation party in Québec? I suppose originally it wasn't their identity, since there was no question of separation yet.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

But when did they have their 1st Québec PM? I can't think of any PLQ PM before the 1960s.

Gouin and Taschereau (without cheating and without reading Kilgore Trout's post )

The Libs have more than half of Quebec's most prominent PMs, I'd say. (Jean Lesage, Robert Bourassa... with the top non-Libs being Duplessis and René Lévesque)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

^^So when did the PLQ become the pro-federation party in Québec? I suppose originally it wasn't their identity, since there was no question of separation yet.

When Liberal Minister René Lévesque decided to leave the party, so, late 1960s.

[GreaterMontréal]

The PLQ now holds about 4% of the francophone vote in the province, they are finished.

[Acajack]

The PLQ were always pro-federation to some degree and never for independence. Their focus on French Canadian and Québécois nationalism had its ups and downs. They were quite nationalistic under Jean Lesage and even Robert Bourassa, then nationalism in the PLQ began to wind down under Jean Charest, and then collapsed under Philippe Couillard.

Note that Quebec didn't have a viable truly separatist party until the late 1960s.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The PLQ were always pro-federation to some degree and never for independence. Their focus on French Canadian and Québécois nationalism had its ups and downs. They were quite nationalistic under Jean Lesage and even Robert Bourassa, then nationalism in the PLQ began to wind down under Jean Charest, and then collapsed under Philippe Couillard.

Note that Quebec didn't have a viable truly separatist party until the late 1960s.

I think we should also mention that the PQ splintered from the PLQ, same with the ADQ that later became the CAQ. The most nationalists parties in Québec (and I don't include Québec Solidaire in that group) are off shots of the PLQ.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

The PLQ now holds about 4% of the francophone vote in the province, they are finished.

Yeah I don’t see that horse coming back to life. Quebec voters are very much the “flavour of the day” type, but in this case, the PLQ completely fell off the radar and I am doubtful it’s ever coming back. It just has too much of a bad image at this point.

A potential replacement would have to be nationalist, while also emphasizing a slightly more federalist identity than the CAQ. The CAQ will eventually reach its best before date, although this will likely be many years down the road, and voters will likely be tempted to cast their vote for a party that’s neither hardcore separatist, nor too federalist. It may be a party centered around a watered-down federalist identity, or even a “semi-separatist” party for which separation is is only a long term project. I see the trend of people being turned off by the two extremes lasting a while.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by le calmar

Yeah I don’t see that horse coming back to life. Quebec voters are very much the “flavour of the day” type, but in this case, the PLQ completely fell off the radar and I am doubtful it’s ever coming back. It just has too much of a bad image at this point.

A potential replacement would have to be nationalist, while also emphasizing a slightly more federalist identity than the CAQ. The CAQ will eventually reach its best before date, although this will likely be many years down the road, and voters will likely be tempted to cast their vote for a party that’s neither hardcore separatist, nor too federalist. It may be a party centered around a watered-down federalist identity, or even a “semi-separatist” party for which separation is is only a long term project. I see the trend of people being turned off by the two extremes lasting a while.

Contemporary Quebec can be said to be different from contemporary North America (USA and ROC) in this way.

[Loco101]

I'm not ready to write off the PLQ but the party is going to have to change a lot in order to be competitive. I'm pretty sure that the CAQ will be in power as long as Quebec's economy is strong. The big question is who will be seen as the best alternative when many voters get fed up with the CAQ?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

The PLQ now holds about 4% of the francophone vote in the province, they are finished.

That's as long as the CAQ remains a big party sitting on the fence. As soon as the CAQ implodes (or opts for secession from Canada), then PLQ should rise again I assume.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've often thought about this as well. On a number of polling issues Atlantic Canada lines up reasonably well with Quebec. Not all of them of course but the differences often aren't as stark as with Ontario and the West.

The language difference and other cultural blindspots are quite difficult humps to overcome, however.

Atlantic Canada (or at least the Maritimes) also loves Canada and Ottawa a lot more than Quebec does.

They also love the Islamic veil a lot more than Québec does apparently, judging from the Halifax-sponsored lawsuit against that anti-religious signs law of yours.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is definitely an Acadien brotherhood and solidarity that exists across the provinces and regions, and it has been growing in recent decades. People don't dislike each other at all but if you visit communities you'll really see how different they are. Speech is notably quite different and so is the culture and cuisine, so you have rappie pie (râpure) in Nova Scotia which most people in northern New Brunswick couldn't make if their life depended on it. Poutine râpée (not related to the Québécois poutine) is a SE New Brunswick dish that my family in the north of the province has never eaten.

Northern New Brunswick Acadiens swear like Québécois but with Acadien accents, but that type of cussing is not heard from Nova Scotia Acadiens, and even only sporadically heard in southeastern New Brunswick.

Part of this is due to being in different provinces (I haven't even touched upon PEI Acadiens) so under different education systems, and institutional frameworks more generally. But even in New Brunswick there is a difference between the north and the southeast, with life in the north being more wholly francophone, as opposed to the southeast where Acadiens rub shoulders with English all day and often use that language more than French. The Acadien communities are also generally separated from each other by often very long stretches of anglo areas where lamost no one is Acadien. So until more modern communications and transportation they were fairly isolated from each other.

Interesting how there is probably less diversity and more commonality between francophones over great distances in Quebec, than there is between Acadien regions that aren't really that far apart.

What has always puzzled me if why the Acadiens have never asked for their own province. That would prevent the erosion of the language (and eventual extinction of the Acadian identity).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

What has always puzzled me if why the Acadiens have never asked for their own province. That would prevent the erosion of the language (and eventual extinction of the Acadian identity).

Well there was this, but only in New Brunswick:

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parti_...9%20anglophone.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

They also love the Islamic veil a lot more than Québec does apparently, judging from the Halifax-sponsored lawsuit against that anti-religious signs law of yours.

Read through the thread again. It was already posted that the Halifax proposed funding towards a lawsuit didn't pass. It was only proposed by one councilor and was voted down during the process. It didn't happen.

This is how misinformation gets spread on the internet.

[New Brisavoine]

The mere fact that it was proposed...

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

This is how misinformation gets spread on the internet.

It's the kind of thing that makes me lose interest in discussions. First there was an accusation, then it turned out to be inaccurate, then instead of accepting this (with IMO a very reasonable comment from the mayor about respecting autonomy of other municipalities) the gears shifted to how bad it is for 1 councillor to even propose spending $50k on a court case and then get voted down. On the flip side Hali87 wrote up a nice post about the various pro-French initiatives or changes happening and it was dismissed.

If we're going to assume that the decline of minority languages is political priority #1 and is addressed primarily by carving up any political entity but Quebec, shouldn't we jump to the conclusion that France should be carved up along with other European countries like Spain and Belgium?