HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #12841  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 2:22 PM
reparcsyks reparcsyks is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
A personal success story. Very inspiring...

https://www.phillymag.com/business/2...-gallery-mall/
I'd love whatever he's smoking. From the name, Fashion District, to the overall look of the rehab, I don't see his vision at all. Good luck, and I hope I'm wrong.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12842  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 2:44 PM
iheartphilly's Avatar
iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
Philly Rising Up!
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: motherEarth
Posts: 2,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by reparcsyks View Post
I'd love whatever he's smoking. From the name, Fashion District, to the overall look of the rehab, I don't see his vision at all. Good luck, and I hope I'm wrong.
W/R/T FDP, it's his world, we are just passing through it. I hope it is successful for the sake of Philly. Time will tell...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12843  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 3:14 PM
SEFTA's Avatar
SEFTA SEFTA is offline
Philly Pholly
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 808
This mall has always been to the detriment to 9th and 10th Streets. Filbert Street and Chinatown too for that matter. They should have focused on uncovering these streets, repairing the hole in the city's fabric. Creating that much more street front retail. It has the most basic of middle american shops and that will be a draw to an extent. Fashion? No.

Last edited by SEFTA; Sep 19, 2019 at 3:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12844  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 4:53 PM
Knight Hospitaller's Avatar
Knight Hospitaller Knight Hospitaller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Greater Philadelphia
Posts: 2,550
Quote:
Originally Posted by reparcsyks View Post
I'd love whatever he's smoking. From the name, Fashion District, to the overall look of the rehab, I don't see his vision at all. Good luck, and I hope I'm wrong.
Being of Scots-Irish extraction, the saying that "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" is what comes to mind with respect to this project. I too hope to be wrong. Certainly my expectations are low enough that a modicum of success will seem like a great achievement.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12845  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 4:55 PM
Knight Hospitaller's Avatar
Knight Hospitaller Knight Hospitaller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Greater Philadelphia
Posts: 2,550
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEFTA View Post
This mall has always been to the detriment to 9th and 10th Streets. Filbert Street and Chinatown too for that matter. They should have focused on uncovering these streets, repairing the hole in the city's fabric. Creating that much more street front retail. It has the most basic of middle american shops and that will be a draw to an extent. Fashion? No.
Practically speaking, there's a limit to how much you can turn a mall "inside out" and create a "lifestyle center" without just tearing down and starting over. That was never in the cards.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12846  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 5:36 PM
El Duderino's Avatar
El Duderino El Duderino is offline
build awesome buildings
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 413
ok, so i was a skeptic (especially given the facade and retail mix) and went today...and go inside. people were beaming and the energy was real. literally heard someone say “isn’t this nice - we deserve this!” to a stranger passing by; i heard people calling friends and talking about how cool it was and what was there. i walked the entire concourse on multiple levels and i am a convert. it is well designed and the layout and mix of store is great and it feels NICE. the connection to reading terminal, the convention center and jefferson station is open and intuitive (especially for being underground). it didn’t feel empty or incomplete (in most spots) - it felt airy and clean and light filled (even below grade!) and i think this is going to be a huge success. can’t wait to see momentum build and what’s inevitably in store for across the street.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12847  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 5:57 PM
reparcsyks reparcsyks is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Duderino View Post
ok, so i was a skeptic (especially given the facade and retail mix) and went today...and go inside. people were beaming and the energy was real. literally heard someone say “isn’t this nice - we deserve this!” to a stranger passing by; i heard people calling friends and talking about how cool it was and what was there. i walked the entire concourse on multiple levels and i am a convert. it is well designed and the layout and mix of store is great and it feels NICE. the connection to reading terminal, the convention center and jefferson station is open and intuitive (especially for being underground). it didn’t feel empty or incomplete (in most spots) - it felt airy and clean and light filled (even below grade!) and i think this is going to be a huge success. can’t wait to see momentum build and what’s inevitably in store for across the street.
Damn! Ok! Now I'm going to have to go and check it out.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12848  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 6:36 PM
hammersklavier's Avatar
hammersklavier hammersklavier is offline
Your 2016 AAC Champs!
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 今日...? 関西(大阪、神戸、京都)
Posts: 5,822
I was able to walk the mall after work today...

So the biggest good thing is the concourse facelift. It really does feel a LOT cleaner than the Gallery ever did (at least in my experience) and more unitary as well. I had never noticed just how big the Gallery really is before, because the K-Mart made it feel more like two small malls. Now it feels whole, and so much larger than it ever did before.

The inline retail mix is nothing particularly special, but it does have some of the suburban fast-casual stores which are Center City newcomers. Actually the mix makes me wonder how quickly the local Uniqlo rep will lease space in the thing, since all their competitors are already there, lol.

The new lifestyle options are impressive, however. The AMC is very much a welcome addition to Center City (now we need an IMAX theater, and one of those dinner-and-a-movie ones!), and the -- was it a bowling alley? -- across the way looked like it'll be pretty cool. The Candytopia is an interesting idea commanding a large space near the main entrance ... too bad it interacts with all three sides extremely poorly. A huge missed opportunity there, to be sure.

I do rather fear PREIT cheaped out where they could get away with it, though. The dead little passage over to the 8th Street El stop is the same as it ever was (only less airy); the weird escalator setup in Gallery I is still there; the façades look only half-finished; hardly any of the signage is, in fact, digital. The place looks slicker now, but I think there were steps they could have taken to more permanently fix the circulation problems (like embedding a ramp or escalator in the passage to the Gallery I parking garage instead of having a random escalator right in the middle of the concourse) that they didn't.

I also think the place remains too inwardly focused. Don't get me wrong, it is an improvement over the extreme inward focus the Gallery used to have, but I don't really think it'll be able to translate its energy onto Market. Perhaps if the City Winery and Candytopia had switched spots...

I'm also in a really cynical mood about all the space PREIT's hoarded on the other side of Market. I rather hope that they'll partner with a developer to redevelop the 900 and 1000 blocks of Market, preferably with space for larger tenants, but I fear that'll probably never be the case, and the south side of Market East will continue to wither away.
____________________

Incidentally, I definitely think that, if the Reading Terminal Market can expand into the headhouse building, it would make for an excellent western anchor for the Gallery, especially with the food court now being consolidated around the Market East Station entrance. The Field House is currently the biggest impediment to its doing so. Also Market East station badly needs a facelift. It looks grimier than ever compared to how fresh and clean the Gallery now looks.
__________________
Urban Rambles | Hidden City

Who knows but that, on the lower levels, I speak for you?’ (Ralph Ellison, Invisible Man)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12849  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 6:45 PM
mcgrath618's Avatar
mcgrath618 mcgrath618 is offline
Exhausted Drexel Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Rodgers Park, Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Duderino View Post
ok, so i was a skeptic (especially given the facade and retail mix) and went today...and go inside. people were beaming and the energy was real. literally heard someone say “isn’t this nice - we deserve this!” to a stranger passing by; i heard people calling friends and talking about how cool it was and what was there. i walked the entire concourse on multiple levels and i am a convert. it is well designed and the layout and mix of store is great and it feels NICE. the connection to reading terminal, the convention center and jefferson station is open and intuitive (especially for being underground). it didn’t feel empty or incomplete (in most spots) - it felt airy and clean and light filled (even below grade!) and i think this is going to be a huge success. can’t wait to see momentum build and what’s inevitably in store for across the street.
If Duderino likes it, it has to be good.
__________________
Philadelphia Transportation Thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=164129
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12850  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 6:50 PM
Skintreesnail Skintreesnail is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 383
stopped in this afternoon to do a quick walk-through just to get a sense of the place. I was impressed; granted the bar was so low that anything positive was probably amplified, but I think it will do well. It was packed, the art looked cool, felt open and pleasant, some interesting retail in addition to the usual mix. There were little quirks in the layout here and there (the weird ramps and stairs with low ceilings on the third floor felt off to me), but overall it was really nice. Cool vistas down the length of the mall and nice and bright on the third floor. Ground floor was really nice and bright too, probably due to how open it is. Didn't spend too much time on the second floor other than the main entrance. City winery appeared to be giving out free wine. Also noticed a yards near the theater end. Food court was swamped so I didn't really check it out too much. The connection to reading terminal seems improved. Can't get over how horrible the exterior is, but it's what's on the inside that counts...right???
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12851  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 7:17 PM
iamrobk iamrobk is offline
Future World Dictator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,703
FWIW I texted my friend who works at PREIT about the Fashion District on Tuesday to ask their thoughts and their response was along the lines of "Uhhh no comment" so I was certainly expecting everyone's first impressions to be more negative than they are LOL. I haven't gotten to check it out myself yet but I'm definitely looking forward to it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12852  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 7:29 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fitler Square (via London)
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
The new lifestyle options are impressive, however. The AMC is very much a welcome addition to Center City (now we need an IMAX theater, and one of those dinner-and-a-movie ones!), and the -- was it a bowling alley? -- across the way looked like it'll be pretty cool. The Candytopia is an interesting idea commanding a large space near the main entrance ... too bad it interacts with all three sides extremely poorly. A huge missed opportunity there, to be sure.
Good notes. One comment - I'm pretty sure this AMC is going to be a full-recliner + bar/dinner spot w/ in seat food serving when it opens.

https://www.phillyvoice.com/center-c...-philadelphia/

^This is from a few years ago, but haven't read/heard anything about it changing.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12853  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 7:48 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bala Cynwyd
Posts: 3,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Duderino View Post
ok, so i was a skeptic (especially given the facade and retail mix) and went today...and go inside. people were beaming and the energy was real. literally heard someone say “isn’t this nice - we deserve this!” to a stranger passing by; i heard people calling friends and talking about how cool it was and what was there. i walked the entire concourse on multiple levels and i am a convert. it is well designed and the layout and mix of store is great and it feels NICE. the connection to reading terminal, the convention center and jefferson station is open and intuitive (especially for being underground). it didn’t feel empty or incomplete (in most spots) - it felt airy and clean and light filled (even below grade!) and i think this is going to be a huge success. can’t wait to see momentum build and what’s inevitably in store for across the street.
That is good to hear!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12854  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 9:04 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 681
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEFTA View Post
This mall has always been to the detriment to 9th and 10th Streets. Filbert Street and Chinatown too for that matter. They should have focused on uncovering these streets, repairing the hole in the city's fabric. Creating that much more street front retail. It has the most basic of middle american shops and that will be a draw to an extent. Fashion? No.
That was never going to happen
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12855  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 9:07 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintreesnail View Post
stopped in this afternoon to do a quick walk-through just to get a sense of the place. I was impressed; granted the bar was so low that anything positive was probably amplified, but I think it will do well. It was packed, the art looked cool, felt open and pleasant, some interesting retail in addition to the usual mix. There were little quirks in the layout here and there (the weird ramps and stairs with low ceilings on the third floor felt off to me), but overall it was really nice. Cool vistas down the length of the mall and nice and bright on the third floor. Ground floor was really nice and bright too, probably due to how open it is. Didn't spend too much time on the second floor other than the main entrance. City winery appeared to be giving out free wine. Also noticed a yards near the theater end. Food court was swamped so I didn't really check it out too much. The connection to reading terminal seems improved. Can't get over how horrible the exterior is, but it's what's on the inside that counts...right???
its a mall. I mean the bar for exterior design was low- still dont know what people were expecting. Its a box with stores inside. Not aware of many malls that are considered architectural gems. The point of this is to add more food/retail options, more foot traffic and bring in more tax revenue.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12856  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 9:11 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fitler Square (via London)
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardeza View Post
its a mall. I mean the bar for exterior design was low- still dont know what people were expecting. Its a box with stores inside. Not aware of many malls that are considered architectural gems. The point of this is to add more food/retail options, more foot traffic and bring in more tax revenue.
1487 Clone - you are aware that there are amazing examples of urban malls around the world correct?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12857  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 10:50 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bala Cynwyd
Posts: 3,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
1487 Clone - you are aware that there are amazing examples of urban malls around the world correct?
Nope. He/it/she/they is not. And if there wasn't at least some half-assed goal to try to make something aesthetic, they shouldn't have bothered recladding at all. At least it was previously a uniform turd. All that said, I do agree that the design doesn't need to be good for this to be successful. Initial feedback from opening day seems promising.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12858  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 11:36 PM
City Wide City Wide is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Nope. He/it/she/they is not. And if there wasn't at least some half-assed goal to try to make something aesthetic, they shouldn't have bothered recladding at all. At least it was previously a uniform turd. All that said, I do agree that the design doesn't need to be good for this to be successful. Initial feedback from opening day seems promising.
Success for PREIT is going to be easily measured in terms dollars and customers. Success for the City might have some overlap but is largely different, and has more to do with people's attitude and thoughts about this Mall. Example, the Reading Terminal Market exterior is ok design wise, but for the last 25 years or so it has been a great success for the City as a whole. Even if one doesn't shop there its a place you take out of town guests. I hope this new mall can turn into a similar success (and will cause PREIT do hurry up and build the apartment/condo towers and do something on the other side of Market St.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12859  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2019, 12:01 AM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bala Cynwyd
Posts: 3,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
Success for PREIT is going to be easily measured in terms dollars and customers. Success for the City might have some overlap but is largely different, and has more to do with people's attitude and thoughts about this Mall. Example, the Reading Terminal Market exterior is ok design wise, but for the last 25 years or so it has been a great success for the City as a whole. Even if one doesn't shop there its a place you take out of town guests. I hope this new mall can turn into a similar success (and will cause PREIT do hurry up and build the apartment/condo towers and do something on the other side of Market St.)
I am talking about success for the city. It doesn't need to a beauty for that to happen. It's only 3 blocks, and there is an entire South Side on those blocks. Not to mention a burgeoning East Chestnut. It just needs to enliven the streetscape a bit, bring some people around and inside. If this three-block stretch is no longer some barren, underutilized hellscape between Old City and the CBD, that is largely a success. And, yes, the apartment towers will help if they can get off the ground.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12860  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2019, 2:13 AM
hammersklavier's Avatar
hammersklavier hammersklavier is offline
Your 2016 AAC Champs!
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 今日...? 関西(大阪、神戸、京都)
Posts: 5,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
I hope this new mall can turn into a similar success (and will cause PREIT do hurry up and build the apartment/condo towers and do something on the other side of Market St.)
I was legit just thinking the other day that the two Gallery two overbuilds could end up being used for hotel space. The Convention Center has seen a massive uptick in business the last couple of years, to the point where the building no longer lays fallow for long stretches during the middle of convention season and is luring new conventions into its halls e.g. the Natural Products Expo which will be coming here in 2020, and often contemporaneously (such as today!) hosting multiple small conventions when large conventions haven't rented the entire space.

When the Convention Center was expanded, nobody could justify adding more hotel space because the general consensus was that its size was not the issue; its labor was, and adding more space wasn't going to fix the labor problem anytime soon. It was when SMG took over the Convention Center's management that the labor problem got fixed, conventioneers were willing to take a second look at Philadelphia, and decided they liked what they saw. Now it's started to become apparent that the Marriot, large as it is, is not large enough to handle the convention business, and that some other, similarly-sized hotels are needed in the area, and, as luck would have it, the Gallery II overbuild parcels are right next door.

That said, we are late enough in the current cycle where I don't think we'll see a proposal for a large new Convention Center hotel. But there are about half a dozen parcels where such a hotel could work, and I can easily see two of them get redeveloped during the next RE cycle.

It is also worth noting that the Natural Products Expo East is moving from its longtime home of Baltimore for the simple fact that it's completely outgrown the Baltimore Convention Center, which is basically the same size the PCC was before its expansion. Baltimore is losing convention business due to its undersized center in general right now, e.g. Otakon moved to DC a few years back because it outgrew Baltimore's convention center as well, and that was a huge plum we lost because it happened right in between SMG fixing the building's labor issues and the convention industry finding out about such.
__________________
Urban Rambles | Hidden City

Who knows but that, on the lower levels, I speak for you?’ (Ralph Ellison, Invisible Man)
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:27 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.