CF Pacific Centre Developments

[C3YVR]

My guess is that if they stick with the W Hotel Toronto plans I could see them making the penthouse level a rooftop restaurant and bar.

[officedweller]

W Hotel wold be nice, but still no announcement has been made (ie they may not have even finalized a deal yet).

I wonder if the COVID-19 crisis will mess up their negotiations?

[s211]

Does the mall parkade project under Howe Street? Judging from what I've seen driving past, it appears to.

[SpongeG]

Will they use some of the hotel lobby space to expand retail?

[jollyburger]

Before the rotunda:



Full size here:

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/...georgia-street

[rofina]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Failure of the City, VAG and PavCo to upkeep the area and/or prohibt use of it as a demonstration/protest space.
That lead to degradation of the grass into mud and replacement with bark chips.
Then the fountain and trees got in the way of using the space as a protest square
(leaky fountain unto underground storage could have been fixed with the new membrane, so i call that a red herring).

Couple that with modernist designers who like clean spaces (indoor and out) devoid of anything.

...so look to Oppenheimer Park being redesigned as a campground and trailer park.

Thats a shame. Looks like a little oasis right in the middle of Downtown.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by s211

Does the mall parkade project under Howe Street? Judging from what I've seen driving past, it appears to.

Pretty sure it runs all the way past Robson for the parkade. There's an easement under Howe Street as well that's probably connected to that.

[Graham_Yvr]

Originally Posted by rofina

Thats a shame. Looks like a little oasis right in the middle of Downtown.

There's half a city block of open plaza literally across the street from this.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Did you read the Daily Hive piece you provided the link to? The Downtown Vancouver BIA president and CEO said “Cadillac Fairview’s redevelopment of this iconic corner at Georgia and Howe streets, with the addition of new retail space, speaks volumes about its confidence in and commitment to downtown.” So it's not the ageing rotunda that's iconic, it's the corner. And good news - the corner will still be there when the iconic new building is completed.

I'm beyond words and really can't say anything more to your comment there.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by s211

Does the mall parkade project under Howe Street? Judging from what I've seen driving past, it appears to.

It's the Howe Street tunnel that provides loading access and loading docks for Pacific Centre (that's where you'd go to pick up your fridge from Sears and why you don't ever see delivery trucks at the mall like you do behind Hudson's Bay) as well as access to the Pacific Centre parkade. It extends all the way down to Nelson St. and also provides access to Robson Square for parking and loading.
So it's probably a shared facility among Pacific Centre and Robson Square.

If you've never driven it, enter just south of Dunsmuir and instead of turniing into the Pacific Centre parkade, veer right and follow the high ceiling'd road (with speed bumps) all the way to Smithe or Nelson (follow signage).

[officedweller]

WRT the Four Seasons, a friend suggested that the wood has been erected as a safety railing when they remove the glass panes.

[s211]

Originally Posted by officedweller

It's the Howe Street tunnel that provides loading access and loading docks for Pacific Centre (that's where you'd go to pick up your fridge from Sears and why you don't ever see delivery trucks at the mall like you do behind Hudson's Bay) as well as access to the Pacific Centre parkade. It extends all the way down to Nelson St. and also provides access to Robson Square for parking and loading.
So it's probably a shared facility among Pacific Centre and Robson Square.

If you've never driven it, enter just south of Dunsmuir and instead of turniing into the Pacific Centre parkade, veer right and follow the high ceiling'd road (with speed bumps) all the way to Smithe or Nelson (follow signage).

I'd forgotten about all that, having been so long since I'd parked at Pac Centre.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Before the rotunda:



Full size here:

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/...georgia-street

Fantastic find thanks!! Would have preferred it be preserved as an open plaza all along. South facing, lots of light, great views of the VAG!

[Vin]

Originally Posted by s211

I'd forgotten about all that, having been so long since I'd parked at Pac Centre.

And also decades since Vancouver has embarked on such a huge multi-block project. Today's City policies just don't encourage this kind of development, which enables both above ground and underground structures to be linked across roads.

[officedweller]

Those shared infrastructure projects go a long ways to making the street level environment a lot nicer (fewer trucks on street and allows closure of alleys). The only recent (partial) alley closure was for Telus Garden.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

i hope it is still coming after this virus thing. i did like the lights in the trees around the rotunda, but i quite like the not-an-apple-store store design. plus it should be quite high quality.

It sure is, construction is in full swing now. Much of it is still below grade structural work so you can't really see it but this one is full steam ahead.

Happy you like the not-an-apple-store design. The Chicago Apple store this one looks very very similar to was designed by Sir Norman Foster, so it's not too surprising it has a handsome look to it.

Originally Posted by Vin

Quality my foot! In no time it would be compared to the Urinal also known as Eaton Centre. Everything looks decent when newly built, but this boring structure would not withstand the test of time.[/url]

Read my post, quality materials.

Regardless of what you think of the architecture, this building will cost more per square foot than any other building in the City, no expense will be spared.

Your beloved rotunda on the other hand was leaking profusely due to poor quality glass and was seismically deficient due to low gauge steel.

Originally Posted by bluefox

Oh god, have we reached the point where we have rotunda truthers?

Vin certainly has

I wish I had a monetary interest in the rotunda, I'd fly you all somewhere on my private jet.

Originally Posted by C3YVR

I could see them making the penthouse level a rooftop restaurant and bar.

A rooftop bar would be pretty cool wouldn't it?

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Will they use some of the hotel lobby space to expand retail?

Very doubtful, especially with the retail apocalypse caused by Covid.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by jlousa

LeftCoaster, I appreciate that CF gave up space for the Canada Line station and there is no argument it's not a worthy public amenity, was the plaza where the canada line is, not already a designated public amenity though from the development of Eatons and the TD tower? I could be wrong about that as its before my time slightly. If it was then the public has still lost space and CF altered the terms of the original dp. And the lose of the rotunda at Hastings and Seymour is harder to argue that the public hasnt lost out to the benefit of the developer. As you know I'm not a nimby and am well aware how my bread gets buttered but feel the developer community ultimately benefits from having quality public amenites everywhere.

I would never accuse you of being a NIMBY.

With that said the plaza in front of Eatons, to the best of my knowledge, was always a development site not a publicly dedicated space. From what I was told it was more of a forecort for Eatons rather than public square, which is why the trade for the Canada line station in 2008 was a necessity.

With all that said I was only working for Ledcor during the 2008 negotiation so I could be a bit hazy on the details, but my understanding is that CF traded the development rights it already owned off the Eaton's plaza to the rotunda. This is why the Rotunda did not need a rezoning, despite it's large increase in leasable area and change of use.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Your beloved rotunda on the other hand was leaking profusely due to poor quality glass and was seismically deficient due to low gauge steel.

Can confirm - saw water dripping into buckets last holiday season.

[jollyburger]

Not sure if the contents of this report was replaced by subsequent agreements. It also specifically mentions the possible addition of retail at 701 West Georgia (

Agreement in principle was recently reached between Cadillac-Fairview and Canada Line
Rapid Transit Inc. to pursue an in-plaza station entrance. Cadillac-Fairview is prepared to assume responsibility for significant costs which are outside of Canada Line’s budget, if additional retail space can be developed in the future at Pacific Centre and if provision of an SRW for the Canada Line station entrance in the plaza at Block 52 (701 Granville Street)fulfills an obligation to replace the now-closed public atrium in Block 32 (777 Dunsmuir Street) with another public amenity.

The 6 503 m2 (70,000 sq. ft.) of additional retail development which is proposed includes approximately 5 574 m2 (60,000 sq. ft.) for retail space in the plaza areas of Blocks 52 and 42, and/or elsewhere, about 325 m2 (3,500 sq. ft.) to complete the Holt Renfrew relocation from Block 42 to Block 32, and about 604 m2 (6,500 sq. ft.) for future flexibility in the relocation of retail tenants from one part of the mall to another during the course of tenant turnover and future renovations. The additional retail floor area which is requested, if approved, would be subject to future City Council approval of the form of development after Development Permit Board approval.

In this circumstance, staff propose that preparation, review and approval of a form of
development for the proposed new retail space within the existing plazas on Blocks 42 and 52 be deferred until development (DE) application stage. At that future time, City Council approval would be requested prior to development permit issuance. In the meantime however, to ensure that an appropriate form of development is forthcoming at this important location, staff recommend conditions of rezoning approval which include design development conditions to be addressed by future development application(s) for any development on the Block 42 and Block 52 plaza areas (see Appendix B).

https://council.vancouver.ca/20061114/documents/ph4.pdf

[officedweller]

WRT the hotel lobby space, isn't it also at a slightly different elevation than the upper mall?
Entering off the plaza there were a few shallow steps (up or down ?) to the driveway lobby, and likewise there were a few regular steps (up or down?) from the upper mall itself.
The main lobby level (where Yew was located) is a level up at the same or similar level to the top floor of H&M (since there was a doorway to the Four Seasons when it was Holt Renfrew).

So any retail expansion using the main hotel lobby / conference level would have to be a level above the upper mall
(ie a 2 level retailer with a lower level entrance on the upper mall)
The only existing retailer I could see expanding upwards would be Harry Rosen, but not sure how they are doing (COVID aside) with workplaces being more casual.
I think the former ballroom is above Harry Rosen.
You can see the curvature of the rotunda in the former Seasons space.
That space plus Chartwell could also be repurposed as a 2nd level retail space and still leave a decent lobby area for a new hotel.


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