[Halifax] Pavilion (YMCA) and Curve | 2X49 m | 17 & 15 fl | Completed

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Takeo

I don't see that being successful. Underground retail is only successful because it's always in the basements of huge bank towers with their massive populations of workers along with being tied in with major transit hubs and above ground shopping centres. Who would want to go shopping under the commons? People don't even go shopping on Barrington street and that's above ground.

Agreed - underground retail just sounds like a bad idea, unless it's supported by a SIGNIFICANT network of subway stations.

[musicman]

More shows in the citadel would be great but..... With time constraints and the lack of a loading area it becomes very dificult and cost prohibitive to do shows inside the citadel.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Agreed - underground retail just sounds like a bad idea, unless it's supported by a SIGNIFICANT network of subway stations.

Exactly what I was thinking. If you look at Montreal as an example - virtually all of the underground malls are attached to subway stations (from what I recall, it's been a while since I've been in Montreal). So the design of the station forces people to walk past the retail, thus exposing people to the retail 'tricks of the trade' - thus creating a shopping opportunity. Since so many use the subway, you have a good level of customers 7 days a week.

Takeo is also correct in pointing out the office worker side of things. Scotia Square is exactly that - the shops really cater to the office workers from Monday to Friday. Without the weekend shifts of the call centres and a few other things open on the weekends - there would be no reason to be open. The place is virtually dead on weekends, but I would guess that the stores make so much money on the weekdays that the break even or loss they take on the weekends is offset.

[someone123]

I don't think there's enough demand for retail under the Commons because it is not strategically located, but I do think there should be more stuff there. The skating oval is I guess one example of that. It seems to have been hastily thrown up, but it is an improvement in the sense that it gets more use than the grass that preceded it.

A while ago there was a plan to overhaul the Commons that included, for example, a "gateway" to the North Common from the downtown but it seems to have been abandoned.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Takeo

I don't see that being successful. Underground retail is only successful because it's always in the basements of huge bank towers with their massive populations of workers along with being tied in with major transit hubs and above ground shopping centres. Who would want to go shopping under the commons? People don't even go shopping on Barrington street and that's above ground.

Admittedly, retail would be a huge stretch without the population base to support it. There were preliminary talks about closing Cogswell St. through the commons. There may be an opportunity for u/g parking if the feds had infrastructure money available. A constant shuttle could run downtown and do the hospital/university loop.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by someone123

I don't think there's enough demand for retail under the Commons because it is not strategically located, but I do think there should be more stuff there. The skating oval is I guess one example of that. It seems to have been hastily thrown up, but it is an improvement in the sense that it gets more use than the grass that preceded it.

A while ago there was a plan to overhaul the Commons that included, for example, a "gateway" to the North Common from the downtown but it seems to have been abandoned.

I think that the Friends of the Common group should visit the Boston Common (aka THE Common) and see what a well used vibrant common space is actually like. Frog pond. Ice cream stands. Public Art. Shaded spaces. Not a big giant empty space which is open and grassed for the same of being open and grassed.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by beyeas

I think that the Friends of the Common group should visit the Boston Common (aka THE Common) and see what a well used vibrant common space is actually like. Frog pond. Ice cream stands. Public Art. Shaded spaces. Not a big giant empty space which is open and grassed for the same of being open and grassed.

Hear, hear!

Compared to the Boston Common, the Halifax Common looks like an abandoned dump.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by beyeas

I think that the Friends of the Common group should visit the Boston Common (aka THE Common) and see what a well used vibrant common space is actually like. Frog pond. Ice cream stands. Public Art. Shaded spaces. Not a big giant empty space which is open and grassed for the same of being open and grassed.

Agreed, the Halifax Common for the most part is abandoned with a run down fountain.

There is a plan for more landscaping etc. on the common:
http://www.halifax.ca/RealPropertyPl...tation_000.pdf

[JET]

I would be interested to know how it was designated to be the baseball Common; talk about special interest group.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Empire

There is a plan for more landscaping etc. on the common:
http://www.halifax.ca/RealPropertyPl...tation_000.pdf

Funny how the plan contains a list of improvements to be implemented in 2010. These dates must be a joke when they are written.

It seems pretty reasonable though. Start with a small budget and simple fixes that provide lots of value. More trees, entrance plazas, seating areas, and improved pathways would look much nicer and would break up the giant empty space. In the future hopefully there will be more discussion about amenities.

I agree that it's crazy how the city ended up with acres and acres of baseball diamonds. My guess is that was a kind of compromise between the Friends of the Abstract, Politically-charged Wasteland and the many people who wanted something there.

[Jstaleness]

There is another thread here dedicated to the common improvements. It's been awhile since anyone has posted in there.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=177811

[Empire]

Originally Posted by someone123

Funny how the plan contains a list of improvements to be implemented in 2010. These dates must be a joke when they are written.

It seems pretty reasonable though. Start with a small budget and simple fixes that provide lots of value. More trees, entrance plazas, seating areas, and improved pathways would look much nicer and would break up the giant empty space. In the future hopefully there will be more discussion about amenities.

I agree that it's crazy how the city ended up with acres and acres of baseball diamonds. My guess is that was a kind of compromise between the Friends of the Abstract, Politically-charged Wasteland and the many people who wanted something there.

There should be a dedicated space for baseball diamonds. Next to the all weather fields in Burnside would work. Build 1/2doz. baseball diamonds with a couple of hundred cheap seats each. This would go nicely with the new beach volleyball courts. Most people have to drive from the burbs to play a beerbelly / beer league hack softball game on the commons anyway. Leave one diamond, beef up the seats and turn the rest into a Boston Common type park..

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Empire

There should be a dedicated space for baseball diamonds. Next to the all weather fields in Burnside would work. Build 1/2doz. baseball diamonds with a couple of hundred cheap seats each. This would go nicely with the new beach volleyball courts. Most people have to drive from the burbs to play a beerbelly / beer league hack softball game on the commons anyway. Leave one diamond, beef up the seats and turn the rest into a Boston Common type park..

I agree. Now that I think of it I am guessing the diamonds are there because they were built to be used temporarily for the 1967 Canada Summer Games. Looking on Google Maps, there is one diamond south of Cogswell with bleachers -- an easy solution is to keep that one and then get rid of the other 7 or so (?!).

Part of the problem here is that this land was originally reserved for a use that is today totally irrelevant. I don't believe there's actually much demand for this much green space in this particular part of a small city, but because green space has become a political cause people will fight to preserve it regardless of whether or not it is useful. Actually undeveloped green space is not very valuable in NS because there is a lot of it.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

Funny how the plan contains a list of improvements to be implemented in 2010. These dates must be a joke when they are written.

I think the plans got derailed by the trendy demand for the skating oval. All bets were off when that got made permanent.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I think the plans got derailed by the trendy demand for the skating oval. All bets were off when that got made permanent.

I would hope that council would direct the plan to go back to administration for an update in light of the oval. I'm sure they could retain many elements of the plan without too much change; but then again I'm not a landscape architect.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I think the plans got derailed by the trendy demand for the skating oval. All bets were off when that got made permanent.

Skating oval, good. Skating oval in/around downtown, better. Skating oval hastily shoved onto the North Common without a holistic site plan, not-so-good. Just because people loved it (and rightly so), doesn't mean that it was in an ideal location for a permanent fixture.

[Waye Mason]

Those ball diamonds are packed and over booked all summer, every evening, all weekend. They also have Cricket on the south west corner of the North Common.

So the North Common has softball/baseball, cricket, speed skating.

The Central Common has the Canada Games ball diamond, the football practice field, the small pool, the wading pool, the playground, the Pavillion, and the skate bowl.

That is a lot of stuff, I feel. 67,000 people live on the peninsula. Sports fields need to go somewhere. Like I said, they are all booked. You'ed need to put ball fields nearby for current users if you shut them down.

I hope someday the Common plan is funded, the lack of quality street furniture, lighting, landscaping, tree and shrub renewal, etc really a waste.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Skating oval, good. Skating oval in/around downtown, better. Skating oval hastily shoved onto the North Common without a holistic site plan, not-so-good. Just because people loved it (and rightly so), doesn't mean that it was in an ideal location for a permanent fixture.

One thing I love about Calgary and Edmonton is that we both have public rinks built into plazas as part of our City Hall's. In the case of Calgary, the olympic plaza was a key feature as part of the 88 games (the awards were held there). But it makes a great gathering space and considering our downtown is quite empty on weekends, I can skate in ease!

Edmonton's Skating space is part of Winston Churhill Square, and directly in front of their city hall. In both cases, the skating area in the summer becomes a wading pool/fountain.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

I hope someday the Common plan is funded, the lack of quality street furniture, lighting, landscaping, tree and shrub renewal, etc really a waste.

Perhaps a way to fund it and leverage more density from development is through a system like HbD where the as of right height near the commons is quite low and then as you want more height, one option is to provide funds going into the implementation of the commons master plan? Develop a formula based on the number of units...

That could leverage a good chunk of money per development - especially if it was an option you couldn't avoid. Meaning; if you want to go above say 50'; the first step is to pay into this fund and then you could go to 125' for example?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

Those ball diamonds are packed and over booked all summer, every evening, all weekend.

I'm not sure this is a good argument for having tons of diamonds. If a ball diamond were built downtown it would probably be booked too, but it's hard to argue that it would be a good use of the land.

To answer the question of whether or not the ball diamonds make sense we have to first ask what is the percentage of people who play baseball on the Commons out of the total number of people who might use the Commons. My guess is that we have a disproportionately large amount of land dedicated to a small minority.

I think most complaints are about the North Common specifically. The Central Common already has a good mix of stuff. Note that each use only takes up a small percentage of the whole and that areas like the skate park or playground probably get a lot more use per acre than the North Common ball diamonds.

But in any case I think that finding the best uses would take some fiddling over time. Improvements to the paths, some little plazas, benches, new trees, etc. can be done immediately and are affordable.