Haifax-Dartmouth Bridge Commission

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by something_witty

As a claims adjuster for a local insurer, I can tell you that I have never had a claim in the last 5 years because of lane changes. It is always people following too closely and rear-ending another driver.

I would agree. The only lane-changing incidents I have seen involve Metro Transit buses sideswiping other cars because they cannot stay in their lane or change lanes unexpectedly, especially at the toll plaza end of the MacDonald bridge.

[Dmajackson]

The Halifax Dartmouth Bridge Commission is looking at reorganizing the MacKay Bridge tollbooth area. They are looking into removing the ability to pay by cash and instead use license plate cameras to bill cars that are not hooked up to the MacPass program. Apparently 94% of commercial and 74% of private vehicles already pay electronically. They are hoping that removing the "stopping" will clear up the traffic jams that currently happen.

As currently proposed the upgrades would occur in 2016 following the completion of the MacDonald Bridge re-decking (starts May 2015).

Source : "Cashless Bridge Tolls Could Be Coming" (December 18th, 2013) - AllNovaScotia.com

It's not mentioned in the article but I wonder if the HDBC would look into peak-travel tolling. There's no road-based alternatives really to the bridges so it could work well.

[scooby074]

well thats a bunch of crap.

I dont want "photo" anything from radar to tolls rearing its ugly head here.

I dont want random bills appearing in the mail every month. I certainly dont trust them to be accurate in their billing and I dont want to be second guessing (Did I cross the bridge on the 22nd or not??). I pay by cash for a reason.

[JET]

Originally Posted by scooby074

well thats a bunch of crap.

I dont want "photo" anything from radar to tolls rearing its ugly head here.

I dont want random bills appearing in the mail every month. I certainly dont trust them to be accurate in their billing and I dont want to be second guessing (Did I cross the bridge on the 22nd or not??). I pay by cash for a reason.

sounds like your reason is to slow everyone else down, it amazes me that people still resist technology like the macpass; I always seem to be behind someone who has to slow down, stop, take aim, wait, and then s l o w l y proceed. That might not be you, but resistance is futile, afterall

[Ziobrop]

Originally Posted by JET

sounds like your reason is to slow everyone else down, it amazes me that people still resist technology like the macpass; I always seem to be behind someone who has to slow down, stop, take aim, wait, and then s l o w l y proceed. That might not be you, but resistance is futile, afterall

I've used the 407 in Toronto. I went through the toll at 110km/h. Bill was fine, and if you have a macpass it deducts from there

[hfx_chris]

There are seven lanes (in each direction) at the MacKay bridge. If only one of them had a coin collector (and manned booth), maybe the one at the far right, and the other six were macpass only, I wonder if that would speed things up. And if there were crazy long lines at that one lane, it might encourage a few more people to get a Macpass.
I could see however getting rid of the coin collector and booth on the Macdonald bridge, where there's only five lanes and very little space coming off of Wyse.

[Jstaleness]

While I agree this will help it's not the tolls that are the problem. Do they slow the flow? Yes they do. Its the congestion on the Windsor St Exchange/Bedford Hwy that causes the back ups in the morning and at night.

[Jstaleness]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

There are seven lanes (in each direction) at the MacKay bridge. If only one of them had a coin collector (and manned booth), maybe the one at the far right, and the other six were macpass only, I wonder if that would speed things up.

I would be against the one at the far right Halifax bound as this is and should be the primary lane for people coming up from Princess Margaret Ramp. I personally think one of the center lanes is best for cash lanes.

[spaustin]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

The Halifax Dartmouth Bridge Commission is looking at reorganizing the MacKay Bridge tollbooth area. They are looking into removing the ability to pay by cash and instead use license plate cameras to bill cars that are not hooked up to the MacPass program. Apparently 94% of commercial and 74% of private vehicles already pay electronically. They are hoping that removing the "stopping" will clear up the traffic jams that currently happen.

As currently proposed the upgrades would occur in 2016 following the completion of the MacDonald Bridge re-decking (starts May 2015).

Source : "Cashless Bridge Tolls Could Be Coming" (December 18th, 2013) - AllNovaScotia.com

It's not mentioned in the article but I wonder if the HDBC would look into peak-travel tolling. There's no road-based alternatives really to the bridges so it could work well.

Just curious, but what about out-of-province plates? Are we going to be sending $1 invoices all over the world now?

[scooby074]

Originally Posted by JET

sounds like your reason is to slow everyone else down, it amazes me that people still resist technology like the macpass; I always seem to be behind someone who has to slow down, stop, take aim, wait, and then s l o w l y proceed. That might not be you, but resistance is futile, afterall

If youre always behind somebody using cash, get the heck into the Macpass only lanes! But honestly how much does it slow you down?

Their is some benefit to having cars slowing down. The merge after the toll booth when the cars are slowed by the tollbooth is bad enough, imagine the scene if the cars were going 60ish kmh after blowing past the booth full speed if this system is installed. It'll be carnage.

[JET]

Originally Posted by scooby074

If youre always behind somebody using cash, get the heck into the Macpass only lanes! But honestly how much does it slow you down?

Their is some benefit to having cars slowing down. The merge after the toll booth when the cars are slowed by the tollbooth is bad enough, imagine the scene if the cars were going 60ish kmh after blowing past the booth full speed if this system is installed. It'll be carnage.

I'm usuallyturning left or right on Wyse coming off the MacDonald, so I'm usually in the non macpass lanes, and sometimes it does seem very s l o w where folks are paying by cash, they often just seem so unprepared. Guess I'm just looking for a happy medium. You are right about some folks just blowing through, it's a wonder there isn't more carnage

[Keith P.]

Interesting that the 1970 toll plaza on the MacKay is in need of replacement. The MacDonald's 1955 East Germany toll plaza remains original and every bit as awful as it was on day one.

I'm glad that they are finally giving some thought to tolling traffic patterns. It is absurd on the MacKay to see the 2 leftmost MacPass only lanes Halifax-bound lined up each morning while the other 5 lines (which also accept MacPass) are often clear. I wonder if people realize they can go to any lane if they have a MacPass.

It would make sense to keep the 2 lanes of through traffic from the highway moving as much as possible. Penalize those who insist on paying cash by making them wait.

As for the MacDonald Bridge toll plaza behavior, it is total anarchy Dartmouth-bound. People zigzag all over the place randomly. That also needs a complete redesign. An elevated flyover to eliminate the Wyse Rd-Nantucket intersection for Dartmouth-bound traffic would make a big improvement.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It would make sense to keep the 2 lanes of through traffic from the highway moving as much as possible. Penalize those who insist on paying cash by making them wait.

If they are going to this correctly I think they need to talk to the Province about widening the Windmill Road and CN overpasses to 8 lanes minimum. Ideally the left-lane in each direction on the bridge should feed directly into the existing Circ lanes.

Halifax-bound this would entail a short C-E system. The two existing lanes would be separated from the rest by a concrete barrier, pass through the camera / MACPASS overhead dectors, merge into one lane, then get dumped into the left-lane on the bridge. To allow Circ traffic to access Princess Margaret Blvd a collector lane would be started at or near the inside loop ramps at Victoria Road. This lane would add the Victoria Road traffic lane, have a short exit lane for PMB then add the PMB traffic lane. Three lanes would go through the toll area. IF one cash lane is desired to remain it would become the very right-hand lane (PMB lane).

Dartmouth-bound it would be similar to above. On the bridge signs would mark the left lane as Circ access only. At the end of the bridge the left-lane would split off of the rest (concrete barrier), widen to two lanes, pass through the toll area, head directly to the existing two lanes on the Circ. The right lane would pass through the tolls as three lanes. One lane would be lost to PMB, one lane would be added from PMB, The PMB merge would end before the Windmill Road overpass. Lane would be lost to Victoria Rd SB, The inside loop ramp would be reconfigured to merge into the collector lane earlier.

This wouldn't solve the problems at the Victoria Road interchange but that in itself is a massive undertaking.

As for the MacDonald Bridge toll plaza behavior, it is total anarchy Dartmouth-bound. People zigzag all over the place randomly. That also needs a complete redesign. An elevated flyover to eliminate the Wyse Rd-Nantucket intersection for Dartmouth-bound traffic would make a big improvement.

But total anarchy can be fun. I personally enjoy driving through chaotic areas like Armdale Roundabout and Deerfoot Trail (Calgary). One of my favourites still has to be the tollbooth though. The dual-right-turn off of Wyse is just hillarious (the NO RIGHT ON RED SIGN only applies at morning rush but no one seems to know that), and of course heading the opposite direction theres that horribly placed concrete island with a sharp turn into the tollbooth.

[scooby074]

Originally Posted by JET

I'm usuallyturning left or right on Wyse coming off the MacDonald, so I'm usually in the non macpass lanes, and sometimes it does seem very s l o w where folks are paying by cash, they often just seem so unprepared. Guess I'm just looking for a happy medium. You are right about some folks just blowing through, it's a wonder there isn't more carnage

I agree that some can be unprepared.

I have a small change only (factory designed) drop out cubby hole. I keep maybe $10 or $15 bucks there for the bridges and parking.

Im not a luddite... but when it comes to "photo" anything that results in me getting a bill, I dont like it much. I have little faith in government doing the right thing in those cases.

Plus its a slippery slope that I dont think we should be going down.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by scooby074

Im not a luddite... but when it comes to "photo" anything that results in me getting a bill, I dont like it much. I have little faith in government doing the right thing in those cases.

Plus its a slippery slope that I dont think we should be going down.

You may not be a luddite, but you are part of the problem. If you insist on clinging to the old ways, you should be penalized for holding up the majority. Maybe make the cash lane stop and wait for 10 minutes or so via a traffic barrier.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by spaustin

Just curious, but what about out-of-province plates? Are we going to be sending $1 invoices all over the world now?

This is a real drawback but it is a corner case. The root question is whether the lost revenues from the percentage who can't be billed by an automated system are as large as the savings from moving away from physical money and tokens (do they even still make those?). On balance this is likely to be a big win if it's implemented reasonably well.

[scooby074]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

You may not be a luddite, but you are part of the problem. If you insist on clinging to the old ways, you should be penalized for holding up the majority. Maybe make the cash lane stop and wait for 10 minutes or so via a traffic barrier.

Again.. stay the hell out of MY cash lane!

You can zip through the Macpass lanes at mach 10 if you so choose.

I dont want to be getting random bills in the mail from HD Bridge Commission. Plus I dont want them accessing my license and other information which will be required if photo based billing comes about.

What about when I drive vehicles belonging to others or they drive mine across the bridge? Then a license based bill comes at the end of the month to the vehicle RO. HDBC is just passing the bill collection onto the vehicle owner as opposed to the driver where it belongs.

Maybe my tinfoil hat is a bit tight, but so be it.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by scooby074

Again.. stay the hell out of MY cash lane!

What's why I suggested earlier, on the MacKay, one lane in each direction should be cash, the other six each way, macpass only.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Isn't the issue where people are going following the tollbooth?

Its always busier in the two left lanes coming into Dartmouth because you can't merge across from the right ones (I remember everybody is going straight or left afterwards).

Maybe create more funneling toward the MicMac lanes, most people aren't going to downtown Dartmouth?

[W.Sobchak]

I'm with scoob on this one. A lane on either side to have A cash lane is not regressive if anything it's allowing the toll area to remain flexible. If I don't have a mac pass because I don't cross the bridge often enough, it should not mean I get a $1 bill (also probably including a process fee just to dig a bit more) in the mail when all I could have done is toss a loonie into the basket. Because otherwise, I'm probably not going to take the invoice very seriously.

Just to add the only efficient way to make sure those photo-fees, as far as I can see, are properly administered the gov't would have to roll them into either MVI, or Licence renewal. Would you want an accumulated bridge tab dropped on you at an already somewhat testing time.