Underground Canada

[ssiguy]

Ya, it's nice when they try to incorporate less utilitarian connections but the reality is that you are still walking thru a dark tunnel. It really is lipstick on a pig.

Seriously, if you had to go from one building to another in a climate controlled environment would you rather due it thru a dark tunnel or above ground where you can enjoy seeing some sunlight and know exactly where you are?

When driving, would you rather go over a bridge or thru a tunnel to get to your destination? For myself, I MUCH prefer taking the Gardiner than taking the Ville Marie.

[Martin Mtl]

I understand the appeal of RESO as a safe place against the elements, but I still wish it would not get any bigger. It’s nice to have people on sidewalks instead of underground.

I’m not a fan of elevated passage either. I hate how they block the street’s vistas and I find them easthetically unworthy.

[J.OT13]

I prefer tunnels to skywalks, my main reasoning being that skywalks impact sightlines and can create more shadowing.

That said, I would not want a huge system like Montreal or Toronto. Something more akin to Vancouver with a few buildings connected to the SkyTrain stations can suffice in order to reduce congestion on sidewalks served by subway entrances.

In Ottawa, we only have one true underground tunnel system in the downtown, and that's at Place de Ville. Terrible 80s design, slowly being updated into a terrible sterile modern design. It links three office tower, a low-rise office building, two major hotels and Lyon Station, all over two blocks.

Here's a small glimpse:


https://twitter.com/mchkzn/status/1355242478480322560

The building next door (C.D. Howe) has a far more airy/light-filled underground concourse with more shops, services, a better food court and far better washrooms. It's more akin to RESO than PATH. I do wish these two could be connected, along with a few major office complexes to the south (Constitution Square and Minto).

Parliament Station is linked to three buildings, but not through underground tunnels, but instead with integrated surface entrances. I hope to see an entrance plugged into the World Exchange plaza in the future.

Rideau Station is linked to the Rideau Centre complex, which includes the mall, a major hotel (Westin), HBC (via skywalk), the Convention Centre, a heritage office tower (Transportation Building) and major office complex (DND). Other than the station, only the tunnel between DND and Rideau's food court is underground.

[Chadillaccc]

Some examples of Calgary's +15 network...


The nexus of the system, The CORE Shopping Centre...


https://shopping-centres.ivanhoecamb...rties/the-core



Suncor Energy Centre


Coming to a mall near you? by Can Pac Swire, on Flickr



Manulife Tower


https://www.som.com/projects/707_fifth__manulife_place



Municipal Building


https://www.reddit.com/r/brutalism/c...lberta_canada/



The Bow


https://www.cosentini.com/index.php/...a-headquarters



Western Canadian Place


https://www.westerncanadianplace.com/



Brookfield Place


https://www.waltersgroupinc.com/proj...re-east-tower/



Bankers Hall


https://everydaytourist.ca/wandering...ve-ground-city



Jamieson Place


https://quadreal.findspace.com/build...jamieson-place



Telus Sky


https://www.skyscrapercenter.com/bui...elus-sky/15466




The examples range from the early 1980s (Western Canadian Place) to 2020 (Telus Sky). Half examples pre-2000 and the other half post-2000.

[jamincan]

Commenting only from the pictures, having only used PATH, it seems one major benefit the +15 system and RESO have over PATH is that heterogeneity helps with wayfinding as each area has a distinct visual identity. PATH, in contrast, is mostly quite homogenous and cramped and therefore relatively easy to get lost in.

[MolsonExport]

I shied away from posting pictures of the many shopping malls connected to the underground city in Montreal, including the very first of its kind in Canada, Place Ville Marie (which is completely underground, unlike most of the others, which are partially underground, albeit sometimes 2-3 layers below grade). Many tunnels also have adjacent retail (e.g., corridor between Gare Centrale and Place Bonaventure, Les Halles de la Gare, etc.).

[Loco101]

My last Winter vacation just before the pandemic was in Montreal in late December and early January. We stayed at a hotel, went shopping and saw two performances at Place des Arts and one at Centre Bell. All connected. It was so nice not having to go outside and face the windchill around the large buildings. We did a lot of walking and also took the metro at times where the stations were attached to the places we went to. The Christmas decor everywhere was outstanding. I'd go to the RÉSO (underground city) just for the European-style dessert and bakery shops and cafés.

[MolsonExport]

Édouard-Montpetit
Located in the heart of Mont-Royal, the REM’s Édouard-Montpetit station is connected to the blue metro line and serves the Université de Montréal campus. It will be the deepest subway station in Canada and one of the deepest in the world (72 metres). Its architectural treatment will highlight the rock through which the station was excavated.

https://rem.info/en/stations/edouard-montpetit

but not the deepest in the world, to which the prize goes to this crazy deep subway station in Kiev, Ukraine.



https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/...-metro-station

Arsenalna Metro Station is technically still higher than the river, but lies nearly 350 feet (105.5 meters) beneath the city, making it the deepest station in the world.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Loco101

My last Winter vacation just before the pandemic was in Montreal in late December and early January. We stayed at a hotel, went shopping and saw two performances at Place des Arts and one at Centre Bell. All connected. It was so nice not having to go outside and face the windchill around the large buildings. We did a lot of walking and also took the metro at times where the stations were attached to the places we went to. The Christmas decor everywhere was outstanding. I'd go to the RÉSO (underground city) just for the European-style dessert and bakery shops and cafés.

I am not denying that it is great to be able to enjoy a climate controlled environment especially in Montreal's brutal winters. It is also great that the City has tried to make the experience a pleasant one. God knows RESO is light years ahead of PATH which is just a bunch of tunnels connecting A&W and Orange Julius and a completely depressing affair. Regular users of PATH have to have BOTH their therapists on speed-dial just to be able to function during the rest of their day.

I simply far prefer elevated walkways with natural light, more open spaces, and far easier ways to orient yourself.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

God knows RESO is light years ahead of PATH which is just a bunch of tunnels connecting A&W and Orange Julius and a completely depressing affair. Regular users of PATH have to have BOTH their therapists on speed-dial just to be able to function during the rest of their day.

Yeah, connecting Mies van der Rohe's TD banking hall to Edward Durrell Stone's First Canadian Place lobby to Santiago Calatrava's soaring Brookfield place atrium. So depressing!

As a regular user of the PATH, I don't know how I function during the rest of the day, but the amazing garlic naans at Touch sure help.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I shied away from posting pictures of the many shopping malls connected to the underground city in Montreal, including the very first of its kind in Canada, Place Ville Marie (which is completely underground, unlike most of the others, which are partially underground, albeit sometimes 2-3 layers below grade). Many tunnels also have adjacent retail (e.g., corridor between Gare Centrale and Place Bonaventure, Les Halles de la Gare, etc.).

Minor detail, but actually, the mall at Place Ville-Marie is at ground level. You can enter the mall directly from Cathcart street at the foot of McGill College street.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by begratto

Minor detail, but actually, the mall at Place Ville-Marie is at ground level. You can enter the mall directly from Cathcart street at the foot of McGill College street.

yes, you are right. The Southern End and majority, is buried, right?

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

God knows RESO is light years ahead of PATH which is just a bunch of tunnels connecting A&W and Orange Julius and a completely depressing affair. Regular users of PATH have to have BOTH their therapists on speed-dial just to be able to function during the rest of their day.

I simply far prefer elevated walkways with natural light, more open spaces, and far easier ways to orient yourself.

From your commentary it sounds like you have very little experience in the P.A.T.H or RESO systems. I can say from experience both networks have striking sections and both have utilitarian sections.

First of all Orange Julius isn't even located in the city of Toronto so you may not have been in the P.A.T.H network but on a psychedelic trip. Perhaps you were in need of "BOTH" your therapists if you found yourself drinking an Orange Julius on your way to an A&W in the P.A.T.H.

Second, the lower sections of P.A.T.H have a bunch of +15 sections now connecting Union to Harbourfront. While I like to use the elevated sections for the views I agree with others here that they clutter up the views on city streets blocking site lines.

If you live or work in Montreal or Toronto both of the vital pedestrian routes are a nice escape from the weather when the novelty of winter wears off.

[MolsonExport]

Found this post in the Montreal subforum. Very interesting. Canada' deepest subway station under construction.

Originally Posted by sseguin

Guided Visit of Édouard-Montpetit Station on Montreal's Réseau Express Métropolitain - November 2021

Located in the heart of Mont-Royal, the REM’s Édouard-Montpetit station is connected to the blue metro line and serves the Université de Montréal campus. It will be the deepest subway station in Canada and one of the deepest in the world (72 metres).

In this video, we take you through a guided tour offered to the media in November 2021 of the station under construction. Journey deep underground, down to the Mont-Royal rail tunnel, now more than 100 years old, and the future route of the REM.

• Video Link

Video is also available in French here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyoGppTe2lY&t=163s

[Loco101]

Thanks for posting that MolsonEx. I really enjoyed it so much that I watched it again in French.

There are so many interesting things happening underground including where I live with so many mines. About 15-20 years ago there was a lot of talk of geothermal heating here but nothing really ended up happening concerning it as far as I know. A lot of people don't know that you don't really have to go very far down into the ground and the temperature is the same year-round.

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

If you live or work in Montreal or Toronto both of the vital pedestrian routes are a nice escape from the weather when the novelty of winter wears off.

I highlight "nice escape" because of the perspective of scale it implies. I have lived with and used both almost daily. People lazily lean on the "brutal" winters, but truely: Toronto has perhaps 5-10 days of brutal winter, Montreal 10-15 at most. Yes for a very small percentage of a year, it is very good/almost important to use the indoor systems. For much of the winter it is simply nice and convenient. Indeed, nice in the rain. AND, very nice on the hottest high humidity summer days. Also, most people use either PATH of RESO for short bits of their routes, so stop talking about them as if they were jails that dominate (for good or bad) their user's experience.

[WhipperSnapper]

Define Brutal. IMHO, it has nothing to do with temperature. -30 is nothing compared to lake effect freezing rain. It's a lot easier to dress for -30 than freezing rain.

Someone has clearly not spent a lot of time in the PATH. That's probably a good thing though.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

It's pretty easy to dress for rain, freezing or otherwise. I walked to work for 20 years in Halifax and used the same nylon shell all seasons throughout. The nylon shell folded up small, easily fitting into my shoulder bag. Not fashionable as it was large enough to fit over a winter jacket.

[quall]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Bankers Hall


https://everydaytourist.ca/wandering...ve-ground-city

Instantly reminds me of this gem:

• Video Link

[MolsonExport]

Is Banker's Hall underground? The bottom levels?