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  #1  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 2:22 PM
DC83 DC83 is offline
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No sign of a slowdown in Burlington

No sign of a slowdown in Burlington

BURLINGTON (AM900 CHML) -
The city confirms that the value of building permits reached almost 389 million dollars last year.

That was an increase of 18%, with close to a dozen projects worth more than five million dollars each

Those included the Royal Botanical Gardens addition, three new industrial complexes and a 17-storey condo building on Pearl Street.

Mayor Cam Jackson calls it proof that Burlington is seen as a community that offers a clear strategic direction and a high quality of life.
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  #2  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 2:26 PM
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Now I know how most of us feel about "Borington", however I must say I do enjoy their quaint little downtown compared to some other suburbs. And the fact that they've had a couple successful high-ride condo projects in their core is impressive as well. I have some friends who live in the downtown-area, and don't mind it at all. It's heaven compared to anything north of the QEW.

So minus North-Burlington's sprawl mecca, is it really all that bad?
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  #3  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 2:35 PM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
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yes.
Go spend an evening in their downtown. I know it looks cute and everything, but it's dead. Nobody on the streets other than a couple times a year during festivals. Same with Dundas. These little town centres are MUCH better than more sprawl, but simply don't compare with a real city.
And I'd have to disagree with your statement about "minus-north burlington's sprawl mecca". The entire city is a sprawl mecca except for a small area downtown.
If I was forced at gunpoint to live in the burbs, I'd choose downtown Burlington over Mississuaga or all the other weird areas, but Burlington is all about sprawl no matter how you slice it. More condo towers downtown is nice, but it's kind of like Mississuaga. Condo towers where nobody uses the front doors. They all come and go through the parking garage.
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  #4  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 2:55 PM
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An interesting fact about downtown Burlington is that free parking is in short supply. You often have to search for a spot in the side streets and walk a fair distance. The downtown is tiny and rich and pretty nice but the life of Burlington in terms of retail, jobs, and even entertainment is in the suburbs. I have a job because of Borelington's strong economic growth so I have to like it. As far as 'quality of life', that's a matter of personal taste and for most of us here, gritty old Hamilton can still do more for us even with its empty lots and its buildings that are falling apart.
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  #5  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 3:00 PM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
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keep in mind, much of Burlington's growth was a result of overflow from Hamilton.
I tire of these suburbs that try to act like they are their own engine. Same with Mississuaga. Mississuaga is still all farmland today if not for Toronto. Burlington is still a little village today if not for Hamilton.
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  #6  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 3:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
If I was forced at gunpoint to live in the burbs, I'd choose downtown Burlington over Mississuaga or all the other weird areas, but Burlington is all about sprawl no matter how you slice it. More condo towers downtown is nice, but it's kind of like Mississuaga. Condo towers where nobody uses the front doors. They all come and go through the parking garage.

I agree. I'd pick Dundas over all, but if I had to choose between Sauga & Burly, I'd take Burlington any day.

Their downtown condo towers (at least the one at Brant/Lakeshore) actually have street-front retail with patio space! They're often quite busy in the summertime.

I usually take the HSR to downtown Burly (11 parkdale) for festivals. But that's usually the only time I go now-a-days.
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  #7  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 3:30 PM
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We shouldn't be too hard on downtown Burlington. To be fair, they have more patios and pubs than downtown Hamilton. Their core is historic and is a traditional style downtown. They have tons of nice condos and very healthy retail. Their street life isn't too bad either and will only get better with more residential. It's nothing like Mississauga, no huge arteries, just little two lane two way streets.
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  #8  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 3:39 PM
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more patios and pubs than Hamilton?? not even close IMO. Hess Village alone kicks the crap out of their entire city.
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  #9  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 3:53 PM
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Burlington has nothing on Augusta St. as far as pubs go. By the way there's a house up for sale on Augusta across from Pheasant Plucker and it's being marketed towards another bar / patio upstart.
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  #10  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 4:11 PM
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No Burlington doesn't have Augusta or Hess, but those aren't really "downtown" Hamilton. I'm comparing the downtowns and Burlington is surprisingly vibrant and urban, this can't be denied. Burlington has more of an upper middle class feel which is not appealing to many of us, that's all.
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  #11  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 4:15 PM
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Shots I have off hand from Burlington, on a Sunday near Christmas:



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  #12  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 5:01 PM
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I can't believe we are now at the point that we are taking a crap on Burlington and Dundas. These are great downtown areas with excellent local retail--particularly in the case of Dundas. If you look at occupancy of streetfront retail on King Street in Dundas it is obviously not dead--far from it. Burlington has done well repopulating it's immediate downtown thanks to high-rise construction--and it's downtown is doing well at least to my untrained eye. The only thing they did which really didn't work well was Village Square--which was essentially the original Hess Village concept. That area appears to me to be infilling with more restaurants/bars which is a natural and healthy progression after it's failure as a tony retail district. Downtown Burlington with it's view of the lake is beautiful and it is part of Hamilton's greater region and an area to be enjoyed and appreciated. Dundas has a great natural, working downtown which backs onto beautiful century old neighborhoods. None of this takes a damn thing away from Downtown Hamilton--which has uniqueness and richness all it's own. Alas, trying to compare these downtown with Mississauga's--which was built in a field across from Square One is ridiculous. Let's not forget that Mississauga had/has natural downtowns at Streetsville and Port Credit.

flar, I applaud you for your honesty--being turned off by an upscale feel is your perogative--and I appreciate you for admitting it and presenting your balanced and attractive photos of Burlington.
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  #13  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 5:28 PM
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Burlington bashing here? come on! I absolutely love the city, been in the core along the waterfront several evenings the past summer, and it is so quaint, so pretty, great retails, great lifestyle living with the condo developments. One of my favourite cities in Ontario to be honest. I haven't been really north of the QEW, but everything I've seen between Guelph Ave, the QEW, and the Lakefront is impressive. If i get a job somewhere in the GTA in the future (as I'm in transportation engineering for school) I imagine myself living possibly in Burlington to raise my family, for some reason I've always pictured myself there.

And the upper urban class, more white-collar crowd is what appeals to me overall. That's a main reason why I'm not a fan of Hamilton's grit in hardly any way. I'd rather see money invested to clean up and refreshen the whole city, improve urban design standards (I'm talking about the stupid stupid idea to place sidewalks directly adjacent to the road instead of creating grassed boulevards to allow snow to sit there instead of dumping all the snow on the curb lane leaving little room for two way traffic on a lot of streets.) And BAN parking on streets at night to allow for proper snow removal!
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  #14  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 5:33 PM
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nobody here is bashing their downtown....the city as a whole is brutally boring.
But the fact is, downtown Hamilton is FAR more exciting, entertaining and full of patios, culture, arts, entertainment, music, multiculturalism, all ranges of dining, cafes, pubs in a league not even comparable with a few blocks in Burlington.
The lead question posed by DC83 asked us if "it's really that bad".
I simply answered 'yes'. That's not crapping on any anything. It's like comparing apples with oranges.
I even made a point to compare it with other suburban areas like Mississuaga and gave Burlingnton full marks compared to places like most GTA suburbs.
Dundas kicks the tar out of Burlington. I haven't heard anyone here crap on Burlington. fastcars, read the posts before coming on here and accusing people of things that were never said.
Everyone's answers were well-spoken and not overly harsh or critical.
No reason to come on here and try to turn yet another thread into an us v. them.
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  #15  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 5:55 PM
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I have never made an effort to turn this into something it wasn't already. Overall this Forum is all about Us v. Them--that is the basis for 90% of the discussion here--when someone steps up to defend the "Them" side they are immediately branded a "trouble maker"--it's an increasing refrain here. At some point, after throwing out comments like you have to call out your biases:

Now I know how most of us feel about "Borington"

Go spend an evening in their downtown. I know it looks cute and everything, but it's dead

Same with Dundas

don't compare with a real city

Hess Village alone kicks the crap out of their entire city

the city as a whole is brutally boring


You cannot call the downtown dead and then make a post in the same afternoon saying "no one is bashing their downtown." You are entitled to an opinion--I respect your opinion--but you cannot make a statement that you then contradict for the sake of convenience. If you review the statement's I've quoted above, all are in the thick of the "Us v. Them" debate. I like all 3 downtowns we've been discussing--I'm pretty sure that's what I said in my post--and I stand by that.
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  #16  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 6:23 PM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
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well, I'm sorry, but we obviously have different opinions of 'bashing'. I happily and freely bash 'downtown Mississuaga'. Calling the main drags of Dundas and Burlington dead isn't bashing. It's the reality. I had a friend who lived in Dundas and he loved the urban feel, walkable streets, little shops, but after living there for about a month he told me "nothing is open past 5. The whole town, other than a couple of bars, shuts down". I've long complained (until recently) about this same issue on Locke St. It's not called bashing. It's a simple observation. The city of Burlington AS A WHOLE is brutally boring in my opinion. Again, that's not bashing. It's my impression of never ending tract housing and strip malls.
"Hess Village alone kicks the crap out of their entire city". I know you aren't one of the posters who likes to take things out of context, so perhaps you missed the preamble to that comment. It was responding to Flar's assertion that there are more patios and pubs in downtown Burlington than Hamilton. I could have worded the sentence like this - "Hess Village alone kicks the crap out of their entire city in terms of patios/pubs". I didn't think I needed to, because it was clear what I talking about - patios and pubs. Nothing more.

Hope this helps you understand my comments...no bashing intended. If you want bashing, let's talk about vibrant downtown Mississuaga.
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  #17  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 6:38 PM
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the pictures here of burlington resemble the old pictures of downtown hamilton/gore park in the 70s. clean; roomy;"new". just wait 30 years, these pictures of burlington will be quite different. its just a matter of time.

oh, and i dont see any grassy boulevards here...looks like there is nowhere to put the snow...except for on the curb and walkway...
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  #18  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 6:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
I haven't been really north of the QEW...
DON'T DO IT! hahaha

Ya, imo, everything north of the QEW is crap. I believe they call it "up town" to sound more Toronto or NYC. Infact, this "up town" is nothing more than sprawl and super-lane roads much like Mississauga. There are big box plazas, smaller park-in-front plazas & more sprawl. The sidewalks suck and there's a useless transit system.

Seriously man, if you're looking for a hood to raise your kids, try Durand! (Have you been yet? You're in desperate need of a SSP Forumer Tour! haha)

And why transportation engineering? This makes me sad. You should switch over to the Urban Planning program now! There's a great affiliation program with Mohawk & Ryerson to get a Degree!
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  #19  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DC83 View Post
DON'T DO IT! hahaha

Ya, imo, everything north of the QEW is crap. I believe they call it "up town" to sound more Toronto or NYC. Infact, this "up town" is nothing more than sprawl and super-lane roads much like Mississauga. There are big box plazas, smaller park-in-front plazas & more sprawl. The sidewalks suck and there's a useless transit system.

Seriously man, if you're looking for a hood to raise your kids, try Durand! (Have you been yet? You're in desperate need of a SSP Forumer Tour! haha)

And why transportation engineering? This makes me sad. You should switch over to the Urban Planning program now! There's a great affiliation program with Mohawk & Ryerson to get a Degree!

GoleafsGo...I keep meaning to ask you, does the transportation engineering course ever deal with anything other than roads and highways? Talking to the folks in Hamilton Public Works it's amazing how stupid they are about any other mode of transportation. What is the thrust of your course? Is it still the same or are they finally including transit, cycling, walking, trucking and the balance between them and cars?
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  #20  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2008, 6:52 PM
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as a fan of public transit, i should take that course...put my name to good use then
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