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  #61  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 9:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
If the new rail line went through Fairbanks that might be feasible.

I do not want new highways built, but I can live with rail line construction, so long as it does not cut through national parks or preserves.
They would pretty much have to build a highway to the project so it could be built. Once there's a highway to both ends of the project to service the construction, you might as well connect the roads.
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  #62  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2007, 1:50 PM
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  #63  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2007, 8:51 PM
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The more I look at that picture of the globe, the more I realize this has to be built. Its just so beautifully efficient and time saving. I mean we're talking a massive development in world connectivity. A direct link between the US and China, the worlds largest trading partners, by rail? SWEET!

I really hope this gets built even if I can't drive through it.

Honte, I can understand (and agree) you being against new highways being built, but why would you be against it in this case? This is the kind of connection that, instead of encouraging people to drive cars and ruin the environment, would actually facilitate more efficient, therefore less environmentally harmful, trade. The volume of cars passing through this would be relatively low, primarily just people taking road trips, not people commuting to work everyday in Russia. Other than that, only semi's would use it. Surprisingly enough, semi's are actually relatively efficient ways to transport goods. Not as efficient as trains however.

This would also drop over seas shipping rates for consumers as well. Imagine ordering something from China, instead of having to wait a month for it to ship by sea, or having to pay exhorbanate sums to have it flown in, you could just wait two weeks and it would show up via train...
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  #64  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2007, 9:43 PM
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Even if this is just a train, its still going to need an access road or auxiliary track for vehicles but these could end up as dead ends on either side of the Bering.
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  #65  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2007, 1:29 AM
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Why a tunnel instead of a bridge?
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  #66  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2007, 2:00 AM
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The Deadliest Catch on Discovery has taught me that the Bering Sea has some bastard sea currents. Also, it'd take two 20+ mile suspension bridges supported by insanely tall pillars. Engineers have even been hitting their heads for a couple decades trying to sell the idea of a 10 mile suspension bridge across the strait of Gibralter. There is also the problem of rusting which on its own would take countless workers just by itself. It just seems more plausible that they'd follow suit with the chunnel. Its about the equivalent of two chunnels on either side of the Diomede Islands and totally possible with enough resources.
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  #67  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2007, 4:41 AM
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Originally Posted by TheMeltyMan View Post
The Deadliest Catch on Discovery has taught me that the Bering Sea has some bastard sea currents. Also, it'd take two 20+ mile suspension bridges supported by insanely tall pillars. Engineers have even been hitting their heads for a couple decades trying to sell the idea of a 10 mile suspension bridge across the strait of Gibralter. There is also the problem of rusting which on its own would take countless workers just by itself. It just seems more plausible that they'd follow suit with the chunnel. Its about the equivalent of two chunnels on either side of the Diomede Islands and totally possible with enough resources.
The Ice Floes through the straight are massive too. Would tear apart any "normal" bridge. To make it work, they'd have to borrow ice proofing ideas from the confederation bridge (Canada), but beef it up so much more - to handle the much larger ice flowing for much more of the year.
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  #68  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2007, 7:56 AM
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^^With a bridge would it be posible to make it part of a masive tidal plant(or whatever their called). Could generate some masive amounts of clean energy and it would be conected to the power grid if they are going to build the infrustructure like they say.

They had a show abvout it on the discovery chanel a while back and said that a bridge was posibel but it would require huge pillars because of the ice floes.
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  #69  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2007, 1:35 PM
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Tunnel dream: Undersea project would link Alaska, Russia

• $65 billion project would go under Bering Strait
• Proposed tunnel would be 68 miles long, in waters up to 180 feet deep
• Chunnel, linking Britain and France is only 30 miles long
• Project would take 20 years to build



April 25, 2007

MOSCOW, Russia (AP) -- For more than a century, entrepreneurs and engineers have dreamed of building a tunnel connecting the eastern and western hemispheres under the Bering Strait -- only to be brought up short by war, revolution and politics.

Now die-hard supporters are renewing their push for the audacious plan -- a $65 billion highway project that would link two of the world's most inhospitable regions by burrowing under a stretch of water connecting the Pacific with the Arctic Ocean.

Russians and Americans alike made their pitch for the project at a conference titled "Megaprojects of Russia's East," held Tuesday in Moscow.

"It's time to the rewrite the old slogan 'Workers of the world unite!"' said Walter Hickel, a former Alaska governor and interior secretary under President Richard Nixon. "It's time to proclaim, 'Workers -- Unite the world!"'

A Russian Economics Ministry official tossed cold water on the idea, saying he wanted to know who planned to pay the mammoth bill for the project before seriously discussing it. But Hickel was unfazed in his speech, saying the route would unlock hitherto untapped natural resources -- and bolster the economies of both Alaska and Russia's Far East.

The proposed 68-mile tunnel would be the longest in the world. It would also be the linchpin for a 3,700-mile railroad line stretching from Yakutsk -- the capital of a gold- and mineral-rich Siberian region roughly the size of India -- through extreme northeastern Russia, in waters up to 180 feet deep and into the western coast of Alaska. Winter temperatures there routinely hit minus 94 F.

By comparison, the undersea tunnel that is now the world's longest -- the Chunnel, linking Britain and France -- is only 30 miles long.

That raises the prospect of some tantalizingly exotic routes -- train riders could catch the London-Moscow-Washington express, conference organizers suggested.

Lobbyists claimed the project is guaranteed to turn a profit after 30 years. As crews construct the road and rail link, they said, the workers would also build oil and gas pipelines and lay electricity and fiber-optic cables. Trains would whisk cargos at up to 60 mph 260 feet beneath the seabed.

Eventually, 3 percent of the world's cargo could move along the route, organizers hope.


Private investment called for


Maxim Bystrov, deputy head of the federal agency for managing Special Economic Zones, injected a note of sobriety to the heady talk of linking East and West by road and rail. He said his ministry would invest in the project only when private investors said they were committed to building it.

"As a ministry employee I am used to working with figures and used to working with projects that have an economic and financial base," Bystrov said. "The word 'prozhekt' has a negative meaning in Russian. I want this 'prozhekt' to turn into a 'project."'

The idea has a long history. Russia's last czar, Nicholas II, twice approved the implementation of a similar plan, perhaps eying the gold- and oil-rich territory that the Russian Imperial government had sold to the United States just before the turn of the 20th century.

The First World War and the Bolshevik Revolution doomed both attempts.

Despite the allure, there were signs Tuesday that there is no light at the end of this particular tunnel. A top economic adviser to President Vladimir Putin, as well as the Russian railway minister, who had been billed to speak, pulled out at the last minute.


$120 million in study costs alone


The feasibility study alone would cost $120 million and would take two years to complete, organizers said. Actual construction of the road-rail-pipeline-cable effort could take up to 20 years.

Still, Vladimir Brezhnev, president of Russian construction conglomerate Transstroi, said that the technology to tackle the construction work existed.

"Perhaps not all of us will be involved in this," he told conference participants. "But as an engineer I wish I could be."

A statement adopted at the conference Tuesday called on the governments of Russia, the United States, Japan, China and the European Union to endorse the tunnel as part of their economic development strategies. It urged government officials to raise the issue at the G-8 summit in Germany in June.

George Koumal, president of the Interhemispheric Bering Strait Tunnel and Railroad Group -- the noncommercial organization pushing for the project -- said that while many have seen England from France and vice versa across the Channel, there is little communication between the people living on either side of the Bering Strait.

"There are very few people who have stood on the beach in Alaska," he said. "Seemingly you can stretch out your hand and touch Mother Russia."



© 2007 Cable News Network
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  #70  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2007, 3:53 PM
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^^^ So there will be a road component... Not surprising I guess, you can't just have a rail tunnel with no access except for the tunnel itself. I guess its at a minimum a safety issue with only having one way to get through the tunnel. Have to have at least two tubes or any disaster or fire could destroy the entire tunnel...
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  #71  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2007, 9:59 PM
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Doesn't Russia still use 6' gauge for their trackage? There would have to be massive transfer facilities on each side to transfer cargo to the correct gauge. Or do they switch out the trucks or something?
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  #72  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2007, 10:26 PM
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There's no way that you could have trucks using it - trucks are inefficient at moving cargo long-haul and the cost of providing extra space and ventilation would increase costs exponentially. Even with rail I don't see this project as being economically sound - it's just an engineer's wet dream
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  #73  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2007, 1:42 AM
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there is a 1950/60 Marvel comics where Captain America and Captain Marvel fight the commies in a secret tunnel they opened under the Bering Strait to invade US...


Quote:
Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo View Post
Now I wonder why we never really drive to South America through the Central America?

we will be more attracted to drive there instead of drive to South America...
there ARE PEOPLE who drive from North to South America. There were people who even rode bikes from Alaska to Patagonia!

But they are adventurers. COMMON PEOPLE WILL NEVER DRIVE FROM NORTH AMERICA TO SOUTH AMERICA, NOR FROM CHICAGO TO SIBERIA.

Common people will take a plane!

There is even a pan american highway btw, connecting Alaska to Patagonia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-American_Highway
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  #74  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2007, 11:01 PM
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^ Actually no one drives from North to South America. The south of Panama is known as the Darien Gap and while there were plans to continue the Pan-American highway to Colombia, the US nixed them in the Ronald Regan years out of fear of increased drug access to the US. There used to be a car ferry from Panama to Cartagena but that has been gone for some years. You can sometimes find a freighter to take your car that distance but it usually costs a fair bit, cheaper if you have a motorcycle.

You can drive to Panama however and I someday want to do it as it would be wild. Might be safer to take buses though.

On topic: I once saw a Discovery Channel show on building a bridge. It was pretty cool there were quite a few computer generated flybys and stuff not sure if anyone else ever saw it.
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  #75  
Old Posted May 5, 2007, 6:04 PM
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"Long Way Round"--- anyone see it? It's a documentary series following Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman as they ride specially outfitted BMW motorcycles from London, across Europe and Siberia, take a plane over the Bering Strait and ride from Alaska to NYC. They really did this. Siberia had to be the most difficult part-- the so-called "Road of Bones" built by Stalin using essentially slave labor was virtually impassable by even the hardiest of 4WD vehicles. Spring thaws create vast floods every year that wash out roads and make driving impossible. Rail does go through this area, and can be elevated less expensively than roads. An interesting idea, and it makes sense to me.
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  #76  
Old Posted May 7, 2007, 12:22 AM
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The Road of Bones does not reach the Bering Strait. It ends in Magadan on the Sea of Ochotsk. They then flew over Ochostk, Kamchatka, the Bering Sea and then into Anchorage. They were still roughly 1500 miles from the Bering Strait.
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  #77  
Old Posted May 7, 2007, 1:58 AM
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HOLY SH!T this cannot be for real... OVER a thousan mile tunnel??? no way. any other sources to back this up? The logistics for such an operation have to be freakin astounding!
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  #78  
Old Posted May 7, 2007, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
^ Actually no one drives from North to South America. The south of Panama is known as the Darien Gap and while there were plans to continue the Pan-American highway to Colombia, the US nixed them in the Ronald Regan years out of fear of increased drug access to the US. There used to be a car ferry from Panama to Cartagena but that has been gone for some years. You can sometimes find a freighter to take your car that distance but it usually costs a fair bit, cheaper if you have a motorcycle.

You can drive to Panama however and I someday want to do it as it would be wild. Might be safer to take buses though.

On topic: I once saw a Discovery Channel show on building a bridge. It was pretty cool there were quite a few computer generated flybys and stuff not sure if anyone else ever saw it.
no one in their SANE mind to the travel. But just last year there was an american couple in Novo Hamburgo, that had driven (with a trailler behind their car) since the US. They had passed Porto Alegre, were in Novo Hamburgo, and on the way to Buenos Aires and then to Patagonia.

And there are some BIKER blogs that did the same adventure.
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  #79  
Old Posted May 7, 2007, 8:48 PM
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HOLY SH!T this cannot be for real... OVER a thousan mile tunnel??? no way. any other sources to back this up? The logistics for such an operation have to be freakin astounding!

no, the tunnel wont be a thousand miles long.Look at the map. The Bring Strait is less than 100km wide.

I think its a THOUSAND MILES CONNECTION, but it includes mostly surface railroad. Only a fraction of it is an underground tunnel.
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  #80  
Old Posted May 19, 2007, 6:49 AM
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A lot of people exclaim their undesire to take a trip to Russia via the tunnel, and so, do not find it economically suitable. Yet, this tunnel is not meant for a summer road trip for average North American citizen's. Most vehicles will not be reliable in extreme temperatures.

The proposition of this tunnel is the prospect for economic gain through quick and easy transport of goods, services, and natural resources via train and pipelines between the two continents. It is not being built for mickey-mouse road trips, although such road trips can probably be realized in the warmer summer months.
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