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  #41  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2014, 1:39 PM
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I would rather have Casinos near NYC. Atlantic City is just, well, a ghetto. If done right, gambling would be a huge success. Plus, it will only further increase tourism which is a prosperous industry for the city and its surrounding satellites.
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2014, 5:05 PM
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Xanadu II

I hate everything about the Meadowlands and avoid in like the plague. I also choose not to own a car and prefer to use NYC subways, PATH and the HBLR to get around. Meadowlands again is off limits for me. As a Jersey City resident, I would strongly support the casino being placed in Jersey City, accessible by the HBLR, and would oppose vigorously any further development in the Meadowlands.

For folks driving, I can see how the Meadowlands would be the more attractive option however.

I also don't see this as a one or the other. In 20 years we'll probably see casinos in Jersey City, the Meadowlands, Yonkers, and long island. I think there would be too much NIMBY pressure to open one on the island of Manhattan itself.

My two cents...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Here's something that makes more sense...


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/19/ny...=nyregion&_r=0

As Casinos Close in Atlantic City, a Push for More, Closer to New York


By CHARLES V. BAGLI
AUG. 18, 2014






Here's the problem with trying to build a casino resort that draws from or relies heavily on drawing business from residents and tourists of New York by putting a casino in Jersey City - New York is going to handle casino gambling on its own. For now, the governor wants to open casinos outside the city to get a jumpstart. But place a casino anywhere within close proximity to Manhattan, and you will see a Manhattan casino develop (who in their right minds believes the state will watch that revenue drift over the border).

When that happens, there goes your New York crowd, and you are left with Jersey residents, who should be the primary focus of any casino development in north Jersey. And Jersey City, while close to Manhattan, isn't exactly the most accessible place to get to from other parts of north Jersey, I know that for a fact. However, the Meadowlands would be.

Whatever is developed should be a draw all its own, and not rely heavily on the NY crowd.
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2014, 5:31 PM
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I don't know why people think that building a casino there is such a bad idea (from the bussines standpoint) I think that location is just right. It is a relatively isolated place, yes, but you can't look at it as it were a housing or retail complex. Residents of a housing complex need to go out every single day to work, so they need convenient transportation and a ferry with limited schedule and hours of service may not be enough. In a retail complex, a customer may not go every day, but there is retail everywhere, so why jump on a ferry to go shopping, if there are more convenient places to go, by subway, a short cab ride, or just walking.

But a casino is a completely different thing, it is a place that attracts people on its own. For getting there, it obviously wont rely on the existing commuter ferry, they can put their own ferry service, that could work 24 hours a day (or the time the casino is open) and it can even have aditional amenities than a conventional commuter ferry. And for a tourist, that will go there more likely just once, the ferry ride would be more like an aditional attraction. Besides it is very close to Newark Airport.

What I don't think is going to happen is the supertall tower. They don't need to build such a tall building there. They can't get amazing views just from the first floor. Makes more sense a Las Vegas style hotel, with large plates but not as tall (maybe about 40 stories) could have hotel rooms in the lower floors and luxury residences on the upper ones.

Don't think the racetrak or the ferrys wheel are going to happen either. For the ferrys wheel is either this or the one in Staten Island, since the SI one is about to begin construction, this one doesn't make sense at all. The racetrack I don't know where are they going to build it, unless they put it where the golf course is.
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2014, 6:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIA View Post
Xanadu II

I hate everything about the Meadowlands and avoid in like the plague. I also choose not to own a car and prefer to use NYC subways, PATH and the HBLR to get around. Meadowlands again is off limits for me. As a Jersey City resident, I would strongly support the casino being placed in Jersey City,
As a Jersey City resident, of course it would be no problem for you. But I can tell you that the vast majority of Jersey residents are auto-oriented. Access to Jersey City is limited. The meadowlands is perfect for such an expansive development.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CCs77
I don't know why people think that building a casino there is such a bad idea (from the bussines standpoint) I think that location is just right. It is a relatively isolated place, yes, but you can't look at it as it were a housing or retail complex.

a casino is a completely different thing, it is a place that attracts people on its own. For getting there, it obviously wont rely on the existing commuter ferry, they can put their own ferry service, that could work 24 hours a day (or the time the casino is open) and it can even have aditional amenities than a conventional commuter ferry. And for a tourist, that will go there more likely just once, the ferry ride would be more like an aditional attraction. Besides it is very close to Newark Airport.

And here we are talking about ferry service. Residents from Jersey won't be taking a ferry to Jersey City that's for sure. But again, if you're thinking about drawing residents and tourists from New York to support this, then forget about it. As I've said, any casino in northern New Jersey needs to stand on its own, and not rely on residents of NY or Pennsylvania for that matter, unless they want to shut quicker than the Revel did.

And at least one person can see the folly in doing otherwise...


http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2...nos_close.html

Quote:
Steven Perskie, a former state legislator who wrote New Jersey's casino gambling law in the 1970s, said in a recent interview with NJ.com that opening a casino in the Meadowlands would only light a fire under New York to get their operations running, creating even more competition for Atlantic City.

"The notion that you could build a major facility in Jersey City and then have New York say, 'OK, we’re going to allow everybody to go across the river and make money in New Jersey' is insane," he said.

Insane, and quite foolish. Build the casinos in north Jersey where they will best benefit from state residents, not rely on the NY crowd.
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  #45  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2014, 10:07 PM
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NYGuy, you have an interesting debating style. Of course I'm approaching this from a non auto-oriented point of view. I love cities and choose to live car free like many others in NYC and Hudson County. If we're looking at this from the point of view of what's best for the casinos, then of course putting one in the cesspool known as the meadowlands makes the most financial sense, and I'd want to make sure I'd have an ungodly amount of parking stalls to boot.
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2014, 9:59 PM
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This project isn't impossible. The parts of Brooklyn, and Manhattan that are being served by the East River Ferry is a good example of what this development may look like. The East River Ferry runs every 30 minutes, but a lot of people live near the ferry stops, because in the end it still works. Not just that, but many of these towers are around half a mile away form the nearest (G) train stop proving that the concept can work.

If these developers are serious they might even run shuttle bus services from the nearest light rail stop. So this project isn't impossible. It just will take a lot of work to be able to make it work....
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2014, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIA View Post
NYGuy, you have an interesting debating style.
Thank you.


Quote:
Of course I'm approaching this from a non auto-oriented point of view. I love cities and choose to live car free like many others in NYC and Hudson County. If we're looking at this from the point of view of what's best for the casinos, then of course putting one in the cesspool known as the meadowlands makes the most financial sense, and I'd want to make sure I'd have an ungodly amount of parking stalls to boot.
It's not only what's best for the casinos, but also what's best for Jersey residents. The two are not mutually exclusive. In other words, what's best for the residents will be best for the casino, because that's the customer base.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1 View Post
This project isn't impossible. The parts of Brooklyn, and Manhattan that are being served by the East River Ferry is a good example of what this development may look like. The East River Ferry runs every 30 minutes, but a lot of people live near the ferry stops, because in the end it still works. Not just that, but many of these towers are around half a mile away form the nearest (G) train stop proving that the concept can work.
Again, we're talking about ferries, which is a silly idea, because Jersey residents aren't going to be using ferries. Could a residential development be built on the site? Of course. There are already examples of residential developments. Luxury highrise skyscrapers? Don't count on it. But that's not what this is about. A development of the magnitude proposed at this site, even if you scratch off the ridiculous 95-story tower proposal, still wouldn't be served well by ferry (just pretending for the moment that you would ferry passengers in from Jersey). Giant ferris wheel? The only reason you're getting one on Staten Island is because it has a captive, built-in audience of tourists on the free Staten Island Ferry - one of the city's top tourist destinations, capable of handling large crowds. And even that will be supplemented by other ferry service. The motor sports stadium? Don't even get started on that.

This whole thing is a "kitchen sink" proposal that was thrown together to get attention. What you see being proposed for the Meadowlands is a more serious attempt at something that could work.
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  #48  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2014, 5:52 PM
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http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...roup_says.html

A Meadowlands casino? How about four, business group says

Quote:
CARLSTADT — With one casino in Atlantic City already shuttered this year and another three expected to close shortly, a regional business group yesterday rolled out its grand vision for a Meadowlands of the future — with as many as four casinos.

The proposal, presented by the Meadowlands Regional Chamber of Commerce to business leaders and reporters, conjures several possible gambling meccas, including a resort-style hotel and casino and a combination race track and casino — otherwise known as a racino — at the Meadowlands Racetrack.

The ambitious plan was missing one crucial ingredient: money.

"Who’s going to pay for it?" the chamber president, Jim Kirkos, said. "We’re going to ask people to step up to the table and come up with ideas."

That vision includes 2,000 new hotel rooms, a 1-million-square-foot convention center, up to 20,000 additional parking spaces and a 1½-mile monorail to move visitors around the complex. The total cost is estimated at nearly $1.2 billion.
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2014, 6:17 AM
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Without posting the whole thing (see link for full interview, Mayor Fulop was interviewed and there was a reference towards this project:
=====================================

Quote:
I know there was discussion regarding a new casino project; it’s going to be 100 stories tall?

Ninety-five. We need a legislative change next year for gaming in northern New Jersey, but we’re already building 70-story towers, so getting to 95 floors is not a big deal.
Some promising optimism and confidence from the mayor.

Full Interview: http://www.yimbynews.com/2014/10/int...ven-fulop.html
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2014, 6:58 PM
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Seems like the legislators favor North NJ Gambling Idea: Also some pros and cons.


====================================

Letter: Casino expansion would be heavy blow to South Jersey

Quote:
To the editor:

“Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners, and necessity has made us allies. Those whom God has so joined together, let no man put asunder,” said President Kennedy in an observation that is pertinent to the current discussion about the future of gaming in New Jersey.

A North Jersey casino is simply bad for the entire state, with the heaviest blow falling on South Jersey.

While it may be easy to view this as merely an Atlantic City issue, the facts clearly show a North Jersey casino would put many South Jersey residents out of a job. In The Current and Gazette coverage areas, nearly 22,000 families and nearly 1,400 businesses relied on their income from casinos in Atlantic City.

We are not talking about numbers on a spreadsheet here, but rather our family, friends and neighbors – hardworking middle-class families and small-business owners – who are being affected right now by talk of expanding gaming to North Jersey.

Gaming expansion outside of Atlantic City to other parts of New Jersey would be devastating to our region and its people, and I won’t apologize for using every tool available to me as a state legislator to stop it. More families will lose their jobs and local property values will decrease, forcing property taxes to rise beyond the ability of middle-class families and seniors to pay.

An analysis done by Dr. Israel Posner of Richard Stockton College indicates that North Jersey’s population accounts for 42 percent of the total gaming customers from New Jersey who gamble in Atlantic City. Thus, a casino in the Meadowlands would put at least 42 percent of our in-state gaming customers at risk. Posner believes this would place serious hurdles in the way of our ability to continue to transition to a true diverse destination resort.

A separate study by the Casino Association of New Jersey concludes that simply adding slot gaming in the Meadowlands would cannibalize the market and siphon off 45 percent of gaming revenue from Atlantic City, costing us 3,800 jobs and $190 million in payroll – and diverting $45 million from programs that help New Jersey’s seniors and disabled.

Some legislators believe a deal can be worked out whereby some revenue from a North Jersey casino would come back to Atlantic City. There is absolutely no deal that will bring back the local hospitality jobs we have lost and will lose if a North Jersey casino opens.

There should be no discussion about expanding gaming until after a thoughtful study on whether Atlantic City has transitioned to a full destination resort and if a North Jersey casino is even economically viable. It took Las Vegas 10 years to make the transition from a gambling destination to a resort destination.

As it stands now, with potential gaming options on the near horizon in the Meadowlands and Jersey City, there is no incentive for investors to put more money into Atlantic City, jeopardizing our efforts to transition into a full destination resort and putting local jobs and businesses at risk. It is imperative we put an end to this premature talk of expanding gaming outside of Atlantic City.

While some legislators believe a North Jersey casino is inevitable and want to abandon the agreement the state made with Atlantic City, I am proud local officials from both parties have rallied together to oppose expanding casino gaming to North Jersey. Recently Sea Isle City, recognizing the regional impact of casino gaming, adopted a resolution supporting Atlantic City’s transition into a full destination resort.

With all of this at stake, South Jersey must stand together to stop a North Jersey casino now. We must continue to do what is right for our region, and that means opposing any deal that will undercut Atlantic City and our region or “put asunder” the commitment made by the state to give the city time to transition into a destination resort.

Chris Brown
Assemblyman, District 2
====================================
http://www.shorenewstoday.com/snt/ne...th-jersey.html
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2014, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Seems like the legislators favor North NJ Gambling Idea: Also some pros and cons.
They're looking at the potential revenues, which would be huge, but at the same time it would be the final nail in the coffin of Atlantic City, which could see some stabilization with a reduced number of casinos in the state.

At least it's understood by some that the meadowlands would be the preferred location...


Quote:
An analysis done by Dr. Israel Posner of Richard Stockton College indicates that North Jersey’s population accounts for 42 percent of the total gaming customers from New Jersey who gamble in Atlantic City. Thus, a casino in the Meadowlands would put at least 42 percent of our in-state gaming customers at risk.
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  #52  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2014, 2:14 PM
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http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...rsey_city.html

Fulop: Casino in Jersey City would be highest-grossing in North America

Quote:
Summoning his inner Donald Trump, Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop declares in today's Record, that a casino in Jersey City "would be the highest-grossing in North America, bigger than any Las Vegas casino." ...

No matter what the conditions are, Fulop is convinced casino investment in Jersey City is a no-brainer.

"There's only one place that every major casino operator in the country has come to check out and that's Jersey City," he tells The Record. "It's not rocket science. We're closest to Manhattan ... Open public bidding is fine, because from an economic standpoint, a (Jersey City proposal) would be the front-runner."

Fulop added that some preliminary proposals that have been discussed with him approach "$1 billion." A $4.6 billion multi-use project in Jersey City proposed this summer by real estate investor Paul Fireman would include a casino, a convention center, a 95-story hotel, a motor-sports stadium, among other attractions, The Record reports.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...rsey_city.html

Officials making their pitches for a New Jersey casino

Quote:
“There’s only one place that every major casino operator in the country already has come to check out, and that’s Jersey City,” said Steve Fulop, the mayor of Hudson County’s seat.

“It’s not rocket science,” he added. “We’re closest to Manhattan. A casino here would be the highest-grossing in North America, bigger than any Las Vegas casino.”

Jim Kirkos, the head of the Meadowlands Regional Chamber of Commerce, counters that the Sports Complex is the right spot. The American Dream, Izod Center, MetLife Stadium — as well as a potential convention center — will ensure a steady stream of both locals and visitors on a daily basis to a site that offers its own mass-transit access from Manhattan.

The referendum under discussion, which would go before the voters in November, is expected to focus on two key points: ending Atlantic City’s statewide monopoly on casinos, and explaining that a portion of revenues from North Jersey casinos would go to support the struggling seaside resort and its casino industry. The latter could prove crucial in drumming up support among South Jersey politicians as well as residents. ...


“We’ll have some sort of geographical boundary, whether it’s north of the Driscoll Bridge [in Middlesex County] or a listing of eligible counties,” Sarlo said. “We’d be looking for the most tax revenues, someone who can build immediately, and have their financing in place. And this is open bidding. The Meadowlands [Sports Complex], Jersey City is a viable option, Secaucus, Newark — there are lots of viable options, and we should not rule out any of them.”

State Sen. Ray Lesniak, D-Union, the leading gambling expansion proponent in Trenton, agreed, although he has expressed skepticism that Newark could attract a casino plan on the scale of the Meadowlands or Jersey City. ...

Fulop was confident his city would emerge on top no matter what process is followed. “Open bidding is fine, because from an economic standpoint, [a Jersey City proposal] would be the front-runner,” said Fulop, adding that some preliminary casino proposals that have been discussed with him are “approaching $1 billion.” A $4.6 billion multiuse project in Jersey City proposed this summer by real estate investor Paul Fireman would include not only a casino but also a convention center, 95-story hotel, and a motor-sports stadium, among other attractions.

Fulop said that casino executives looking at Jersey City have not seemed overly concerned about potential competition from a Manhattan casino after New York’s moratorium on such an option expires in 2022.

“What we’ve seen with the high-end Vegas venues is that the most successful ones create an experience not just from the gaming,” Fulop said. “These would be a destination-style world-class venue, not just some dumb slot machines.” ...

Fulop said would-be operators in Jersey City “don’t care” if the Meadowlands also gets a casino and predicted there would be little cannibalization...

“If there’s a Jersey City waterfront high-end casino for only high-rollers, would that make sense?” he asked. “Perhaps. But that’s very different from having a casino at the Meadowlands Sports Complex.”

Essex County Executive Joseph DiVincenzo reportedly wrote a letter this month to Sweeney, Prieto, and Governor Christie — a reliable political ally — pitching Newark as a casino site given its own mass transportation access to Manhattan.
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted May 28, 2015, 7:28 PM
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Looks like we should be getting a rendering on this one soon!!

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf...ing_quest.html

Quote:
Supporters of a proposed casino in Jersey City plan a press conference to promote the amendment sometime in the next couple weeks, according to state Sen. Raymond Lesniak (D-Union), who is pushing the plan.

Lesniak said the press conference for the "Liberty Rising" project — spearheaded by Boston sneaker mogul Paul Fireman and proposed for an industrial patch of Jersey City's waterfront next to the golf course he owns — will be held not long after Hard Rock International and Meadowlands Racing and Entertainment unveil their plans for a Meadowlands casino next week.

...The Jersey City casino is expected to be bigger than the one planned in the Meadowlands, rising 95 floors and including a hotel and several other attractions on its grounds. It is expected to be more geared towards high rollers than the Meadowlands proposal.

"It is 10 times bigger than the Hard Rock. And both can co-exist because they'll attract different customers," Lesniak said.

While renderings for the casino have been shown to some lawmakers, they have not been released publicly.
Another supertall is planned for Jersey City. It's dependent on a casino and has a long way to go, but it's coming. It will join the 99 Hudson project. which tops out at 301m. It will soon break ground (if it has not already).
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted May 28, 2015, 8:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIA View Post
Looks like we should be getting a rendering on this one soon!!

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf...ing_quest.html

Another supertall is planned for Jersey City. It's dependent on a casino and has a long way to go, but it's coming. It will join the 99 Hudson project. which tops out at 301m. It will soon break ground (if it has not already).
Again, I tell you, it won't happen at this site. They can put out all the best renderings in the world.
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  #55  
Old Posted May 28, 2015, 8:47 PM
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Again, I tell you, it won't happen at this site. They can put out all the best renderings in the world.
You're probably right, but I hope someone bumps this post years from now in the unlikely event you're proven wrong.
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted May 28, 2015, 8:56 PM
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More political than anything. There still needs to amendment to allow gambling for the area. But I do share your optimism CIA. Gotta keep dreaming and hoping!

Another supertall for the region is needed. Yes we have dozens in the pipeline, but we need much more. Just because... <---- My reaction to yesterday's supertall news.
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted May 28, 2015, 9:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CIA View Post
You're probably right, but I hope someone bumps this post years from now in the unlikely event you're proven wrong.
Oh, if it gets built, you won't have to worry about that...



Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
More political than anything. There still needs to amendment to allow gambling for the area. But I do share your optimism CIA. Gotta keep dreaming and hoping!
Nothing wrong with dreaming. I just stop by to insert the reality of it so no one will be too disappointed when it doesn't happen. They could really care less about putting a supertall tower here. It's all about gambling, gambling, gambling. No one is going to want to buy a luxury condo up in the sky here, no matter what else is included (including that raceway that was part of the proposal). Put it where the rest of the residential highrises are going up around Exchange Place, and we could talk.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 6:08 PM
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Hardrock Casino Meadowlands - wow Zzzzz...


http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2...l#incart_river
It's more boring than I could ever imagined. A complete snooze.

Hopefully the Jersey City proposal will be more exciting!
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 6:25 PM
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And here it is folks:

A rendering of Liberty Rising

     
     
  #60  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 6:27 PM
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Arghh....


Quote:
Developers of the Liberty Rising project have continued to refine the plans since elements were first made public last year. It no longer features a Ferris wheel that was billed as the largest in the world at the time, the people said. The number of hotel rooms has been reduced to about 1,500 from the 3,000 originally proposed, and a racetrack has been eliminated, the people said.
https://www.google.com/#q=http:%2F%2...Djersey%2Bcity

It's also been reduced by 5 floors.
     
     
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