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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 3:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Huh?

My google machine says the straightline distance between Sydney and Dallas is 13,800 km, while Sydney to NYC is 16,000 km.

Why would the former be a longer flight?
I can't find it, but according to Wikipedia, Dallas to Hong Kong is 82 km/51 mi longer than JFK to Hong Kong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_flights
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 3:55 AM
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Originally Posted by xzmattzx View Post
I can't find it, but according to Wikipedia, Dallas to Hong Kong is 82 km/51 mi longer than JFK to Hong Kong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_flights
That's because new york is a little bit closer to Hong Kong than dallas is.

But when it comes to Sydney, dallas is ~2,200km closer than new york is.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 4:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
That's because new york is a little bit closer to Hong Kong than dallas is.

But when it comes to Sydney, dallas is ~2,200km closer than new york is.
Is NYC closer to Hong Kong than Dallas flying west?

It was somewhere on here that I saw that Sydney to Dallas was longer than Sydney to NYC. I don't know where that thread is.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 4:31 AM
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Originally Posted by xzmattzx View Post
Is NYC closer to Hong Kong than Dallas flying west?
Yes.

The earth is a sphere, not a flat map.

New york and Hong Kong are slightly closer to each other than dallas and Hong Kong are.

But the same is not true for Sydney; dallas is appreciably closer.

But don't take my word for it; you can use google maps distance finder tool to confirm all of this for yourself.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 6:15 PM
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^ So weird. The general travel direction from NYC to Hong Kong is southwest. Dallas is both further south and west of NYC, so it would seem obvious that it's closer to HK. I'm guessing it's due to the fact that Dallas' path to HK requires going along part of the earth with a greater diameter than the more northern route that one would take going from NY to HK.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
^ So weird. The general travel direction from NYC to Hong Kong is southwest. Dallas is both further south and west of NYC, so it would seem obvious that it's closer to HK. I'm guessing it's due to the fact that Dallas' path to HK requires going along part of the earth with a greater diameter than the more northern route that one would take going from NY to HK.
NY to Hong Kong flights go over the Arctic.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
NY to Hong Kong flights go over the Arctic.
If you google NYC to Hong Kong, the travel line does not go over the arctic. I am aware that flights to Asia from northern US cities do go over the arctic, but I think the distance calculation does not. Give it a try for yourself and see.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 6:52 PM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
If you google NYC to Hong Kong, the travel line does not go over the arctic. I am aware that flights to Asia from northern US cities do go over the arctic, but I think the distance calculation does not. Give it a try for yourself and see.
Not sure what you saw but...

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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 7:08 PM
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^That's obviously a flight path, not Google's distance calculator...

Here is what I was looking at:

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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 7:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edale View Post
^ So weird. The general travel direction from NYC to Hong Kong is southwest. Dallas is both further south and west of NYC, so it would seem obvious that it's closer to HK. I'm guessing it's due to the fact that Dallas' path to HK requires going along part of the earth with a greater diameter than the more northern route that one would take going from NY to HK.
Rhumb lines are not geodesics.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 7:16 PM
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edit: delete. was being unnecessarily snarky.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 7:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edale View Post
^That's obviously a flight path, not Google's distance calculator...

Here is what I was looking at:

iheartthed's map is the great circle, shortest distance path. (Generating link).

For cities on the same side of the equator but a significant longitude apart, the shortest path quickly arcs towards the pole since the equatorial bulge adds distance so quickly. New York (74 W) and Hong Kong (114 E) are so close to diametric opposites that their shortest distance is going to go right over the pole.

That angle over the North Pacific is going to be significantly longer since what you save in latitude gets absolutely wrecked in how much more longitudinal distance you face versus the polar route.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 8:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edale View Post
^That's obviously a flight path, not Google's distance calculator...

Here is what I was looking at:


You're getting tricked by the mercator projection.

The real earth is a sphere, not a flat 2-D map.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Yes.

The earth is a sphere, not a flat map.

New york and Hong Kong are slightly closer to each other than dallas and Hong Kong are.

But the same is not true for Sydney; dallas is appreciably closer.

But don't take my word for it; you can use google maps distance finder tool to confirm all of this for yourself.
I was asking to make sure it was the same way around the Earth.

It may be farther to NYC than Dallas from Sydney on Google Earth, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the flight path actually used for that direct flight.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 9:05 PM
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i remember seeing the siberian coastline from chicago-shanghai.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 9:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
You're getting tricked by the mercator projection.

The real earth is a sphere, not a flat 2-D map.
Wow thanks for that info!

I wasn't tricked, I was reporting how the map was shown in the picture I attached. You can also find 2-D maps that show the flight path between New York and Hong Kong where it clearly goes over the arctic.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 9:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edale View Post
Wow thanks for that info!

I wasn't tricked, I was reporting how the map was shown in the picture I attached. You can also find 2-D maps that show the flight path between New York and Hong Kong where it clearly goes over the arctic.
The picture you attached is a similar path to the eastbound (Hong Kong to New York) route, which swings south to catch the jet stream and thus save fuel by cruising more efficiently. However, note the distance section, 900 miles further than the direct polar route.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 2:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edale View Post
^That's obviously a flight path, not Google's distance calculator...

Here is what I was looking at:

The straightest path from NYC to Hong Kong goes through upstate New York and western Quebec.
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