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  #1261  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 3:19 PM
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Or you can ensure that any shared sections have 3 (or even 4) tracks. Bordeaux has a short section which does exactly that.
So for the short section between, say, Terraces Chaudière and the start of the loop at the Portage Bridge, you avoid any bottlenecks.

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  #1262  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
Or you can ensure that any shared sections have 3 (or even 4) tracks. Bordeaux has a short section which does exactly that.
So for the short section between, say, Terraces Chaudière and the start of the loop at the Portage Bridge, you avoid any bottlenecks.

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That could be possible in that stretch. It would require a major reconfiguration and possibly shut down parts of the road to cars. A major 4 track transfer station in front of Terraces would be an interesting sight. It may have to be pushed underground.

That's still 20+ years away. I'm pretty confident the STO will find a way to make it work, because capacity needs dictate that the loop will have to be used to its full potential.
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  #1263  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 4:15 PM
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That could be possible in that stretch. It would require a major reconfiguration and possibly shut down parts of the road to cars. A major 4 track transfer station in front of Terraces would be an interesting sight. It may have to be pushed underground.

That's still 20+ years away. I'm pretty confident the STO will find a way to make it work, because capacity needs dictate that the loop will have to be used to its full potential.
I know that there's already talk of narrowing Laurier by Zibi, and I've even heard that there's consideration of removing car lanes entirely between Eddy and the Portage Bridge.

The section in front of Terraces is a tricky one, yeah. But there's actually a lot of space there between the 4-lane road, 4-lane bus loop and associated platforms, and the soon-to-be-demolished section of the EB Eddy Building at the corner of Taché/Eddy. I wouldn't hate it either if that section were underground in a shallow tunnel between Eddy and Montcalm. You could have some very elegant bus-to-tram transfers between the surface and the platforms below.
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  #1264  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 4:25 PM
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That's correct, they would not intersect outside the loop. How that would happen, I'm not entirely sure, but I feel the STO will need to figure that out in order to take full advantage of the capacity available in the loop. Unfortunately, that would mean the East end line would not serve UQO directly. Students would therefore have three choices:

- Stay on the train through the loop detour until it eventually heads West;
- Transfer in downtown Hull to avoid the loop through Ottawa;
- Transfer to a bus at Montcalm to take the short RapiBus segment remaining to UQO.
The Montcalm connection could potentially be a train-to-train transfer if Gatineau chooses the northern alignment for the west (i.e., Le Plateau > Allumettieres > Portage) and converts the rapibus corridor to tram as well. There would also be a connection in downtown Hull.



Feels like the above alignment would be the best configuration to make the loop work under your proposed scenario, but I have my doubts that Gatineau would choose the northern alignment over the southern alignment for Aylmer.
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  #1265  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 4:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
Or you can ensure that any shared sections have 3 (or even 4) tracks. Bordeaux has a short section which does exactly that.
So for the short section between, say, Terraces Chaudière and the start of the loop at the Portage Bridge, you avoid any bottlenecks.
Interesting idea. The only problem is space, which would be especially challenging on Laurier/Alexandre-Tache between Montcalm and Portage. I'm eager to see what alignment option Gatineau chooses to go with. Each has their merits, but the future implications for the loop will differ quite a bit between both options.
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  #1266  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2021, 4:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post
Is full grade separation in the plans for des alumetieres? west of Hull?
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Referring to the Tramway?
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I think the answer is no to all those questions.

In an interview recently, the Mayor indicated the route would be determined by the summer (?) Sometime before the election. With that, he's hoping the Feds commit funds since they'll have everything they need to make a final call. It will be the make or break moment.

In any case, I expect we'll know the extent of grade separation at that time. Obviously it won't be Confederation Line level, but I do expect a reasonable level.
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  #1267  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2021, 4:40 PM
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Anyone want to place bets on the chosen route and level of grade separation for the project?


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...tawa-1.5446921

My predictions:
  • All-tram option;
  • Wellington in Ottawa;
  • Loop (Feds/NCC decision);
  • Exclusive RoW (no sharing with cars, buses, emergency vehicles) with the exception of Portage Bridge (buses and emergency vehicles).;
  • Southern route along the Alexandre-Taché stretch;
  • Grade separation at Chemin Vanier (south branch);
  • Grade separation at Des Grives (north route);
  • Eaderly route in Aylmer.
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  #1268  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2021, 5:44 PM
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My prediction is that the costs estimates are going to come up so high that it will force a major rethink of the entire project. This just reminds me too much of the NSLRT.
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  #1269  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2021, 6:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
My prediction is that the costs estimates are going to come up so high that it will force a major rethink of the entire project. This just reminds me too much of the NSLRT.
If that's the case, they'll have to eliminate one branch. Which one would make the cut is harder to predict.
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  #1270  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2021, 7:42 PM
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Anyone want to place bets on the chosen route and level of grade separation for the project?

My predictions:
  • Grade separation at Chemin Vanier (south branch);
  • Grade separation at Des Grives (north route);
This is interesting. I'm curious what makes you think that these two intersections would be grade-separated? There are a number of others I'd probably do before these in order of priority:
  • Laurier at Portage/Maisonneuve to allow trams to get from Laurier to the east side of the Portage Bridge. This is a particularly important stretch because it'll have to accommodate Aylmer, Plateau, and eventually Gatineau and Hull lines. The loop will also mean a T intersection of trams with various turning movements. If Maisonneuve/Portage dips below Laurier, it would free the surface of this monstrosity of an intersection for easy tram, pedestrian, and bike movement. The NCC could really capitalize on the space's central location and extraordinary views of Parliament to create a beautiful public space befitting one of the main entrances to Gatineau and Quebec.
  • Laurier at Eddy, to avoid getting box-blocked by cars on the Chaudière Bridge. As mentioned above, this is likely to eventually be a very busy stretch for trams in the future, so we can't have three or four lines blocked by Karen's Dodge Caravan.
  • Chemin d'Aylmer at Champlain Bridge, again for the busy turning movements. The tram might stay at the surface, and the westbound lane would dip below it to permit left turns onto the bridge under the tracks;
  • Boulevard Plateau at Saint Raymond to avoid the busy turning movements;

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  #1271  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2021, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
This is interesting. I'm curious what makes you think that these two intersections would be grade-separated? There are a number of others I'd probably do before these:
  • Boulevard Plateau at Saint Raymond to avoid the busy turning movements;
  • Chemin d'Aylmer at Champlain Bridge, again for the busy turning movements. The tram might stay at the surface, and the westbound lane would dip below it to permit left turns onto the bridge under the tracks;
  • Laurier at Eddy, to avoid getting box-blocked by cars on the Chaudière Bridge;
  • Laurier at Portage/Maisonneuve to allow trams to get from Laurier to the east side of the Portage Bridge. If Maisonneuve/Portage dips below Laurier, it would free the surface of this monstrosity of an intersection. The NCC could really capitalize on the space's central location and extraordinary views of Parliament to create a beautiful public space befitting one of the main entrances to Gatineau and Quebec.
Vanier and Grives are two major intersections that intersect the line perpendicularly. I didn't include turns because I assume that would be more technically challenging to grade separate, but would still be worthwhile.

Chemin d'Aylmer and Champlain Bridge makes sense. Not sure how I forgot that one. If the tram line remains on the north side of the road however, grade separation may not be necessary (but could cause problems elsewhere).

There's a solid case for Eddy at Laurier grade separation. There are lots of opportunities between Montcalm and Eddy for a reconfiguration that could see the tram partially buried or in its own RoW. Same with Portage Bridge and Laurier.

There are just so many possible configurations. I'm looking forward to seeing the final concept.
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  #1272  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2021, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
My predictions:
  • Exclusive RoW (no sharing with cars, buses, emergency vehicles) with the exception of Portage Bridge (buses and emergency vehicles).;
Didn't they say the Portage bridge would need to be replaced to accommodate the tram? If that's the case, I would imagine the tram would get an exclusive ROW, no?

Quote:
  • Southern route along the Alexandre-Taché stretch;
I'm very curious to see what they go with in that section of the alignment. I prefer the alignment that goes south of UQO, but I can't see trams running on that residential section of Lucerne.

Quote:
  • Eaderly route in Aylmer.
I would bet on the Wilfrid-Lavigne/Allumettieres route, especially if they drop the northern branch, which is what I think is going to happen.
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  #1273  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2021, 10:42 PM
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Didn't they say the Portage bridge would need to be replaced to accommodate the tram? If that's the case, I would imagine the tram would get an exclusive ROW, no?
I don't know if they ever said it would need to be replaced, but it would need upgrades to support the load.
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  #1274  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2021, 11:03 PM
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I don't know if they ever said it would need to be replaced, but it would need upgrades to support the load.
I think they used the term "reconstruction" at one point I figured that meant a significant rebuild, but I think you're right. It'd probably be more like an upgrade.

Still, there shouldn't be many buses crossing after the tram is operating and there's plenty of width available to forego the need for a mixed bus-LRT ROW. I bet they opt for an exclusive ROW on the bridge.
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  #1275  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2021, 1:08 AM
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Hard to tell the extent of the Portage re-build. An exclusive RoW for the tram would be preferable, but it begs the question of where buses from east of the Gatineau will go.
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  #1276  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2021, 3:18 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Hard to tell the extent of the Portage re-build. An exclusive RoW for the tram would be preferable, but it begs the question of where buses from east of the Gatineau will go.
I suspect it would be transit only lanes for trams and buses.
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  #1277  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2021, 2:33 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I suspect it would be transit only lanes for trams and buses.
That's what I'm expecting on Laurier (Hull) up to Lyon on Wellington where trams and buses will split.
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