West Gatineau LRT & Downtown Loop | Proposed

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Or you can ensure that any shared sections have 3 (or even 4) tracks. Bordeaux has a short section which does exactly that.
So for the short section between, say, Terraces Chaudière and the start of the loop at the Portage Bridge, you avoid any bottlenecks.

• Video Link

That could be possible in that stretch. It would require a major reconfiguration and possibly shut down parts of the road to cars. A major 4 track transfer station in front of Terraces would be an interesting sight. It may have to be pushed underground.

That's still 20+ years away. I'm pretty confident the STO will find a way to make it work, because capacity needs dictate that the loop will have to be used to its full potential.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That could be possible in that stretch. It would require a major reconfiguration and possibly shut down parts of the road to cars. A major 4 track transfer station in front of Terraces would be an interesting sight. It may have to be pushed underground.

That's still 20+ years away. I'm pretty confident the STO will find a way to make it work, because capacity needs dictate that the loop will have to be used to its full potential.

I know that there's already talk of narrowing Laurier by Zibi, and I've even heard that there's consideration of removing car lanes entirely between Eddy and the Portage Bridge.

The section in front of Terraces is a tricky one, yeah. But there's actually a lot of space there between the 4-lane road, 4-lane bus loop and associated platforms, and the soon-to-be-demolished section of the EB Eddy Building at the corner of Taché/Eddy. I wouldn't hate it either if that section were underground in a shallow tunnel between Eddy and Montcalm. You could have some very elegant bus-to-tram transfers between the surface and the platforms below.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That's correct, they would not intersect outside the loop. How that would happen, I'm not entirely sure, but I feel the STO will need to figure that out in order to take full advantage of the capacity available in the loop. Unfortunately, that would mean the East end line would not serve UQO directly. Students would therefore have three choices:

- Stay on the train through the loop detour until it eventually heads West;
- Transfer in downtown Hull to avoid the loop through Ottawa;
- Transfer to a bus at Montcalm to take the short RapiBus segment remaining to UQO.

The Montcalm connection could potentially be a train-to-train transfer if Gatineau chooses the northern alignment for the west (i.e., Le Plateau > Allumettieres > Portage) and converts the rapibus corridor to tram as well. There would also be a connection in downtown Hull.



Feels like the above alignment would be the best configuration to make the loop work under your proposed scenario, but I have my doubts that Gatineau would choose the northern alignment over the southern alignment for Aylmer.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Or you can ensure that any shared sections have 3 (or even 4) tracks. Bordeaux has a short section which does exactly that.
So for the short section between, say, Terraces Chaudière and the start of the loop at the Portage Bridge, you avoid any bottlenecks.

Interesting idea. The only problem is space, which would be especially challenging on Laurier/Alexandre-Tache between Montcalm and Portage. I'm eager to see what alignment option Gatineau chooses to go with. Each has their merits, but the future implications for the loop will differ quite a bit between both options.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

Is full grade separation in the plans for des alumetieres? west of Hull?

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Referring to the Tramway?

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think the answer is no to all those questions.

In an interview recently, the Mayor indicated the route would be determined by the summer (?) Sometime before the election. With that, he's hoping the Feds commit funds since they'll have everything they need to make a final call. It will be the make or break moment.

In any case, I expect we'll know the extent of grade separation at that time. Obviously it won't be Confederation Line level, but I do expect a reasonable level.

[J.OT13]

Anyone want to place bets on the chosen route and level of grade separation for the project?


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...tawa-1.5446921

My predictions:

• All-tram option;
• Wellington in Ottawa;
• Loop (Feds/NCC decision);
• Exclusive RoW (no sharing with cars, buses, emergency vehicles) with the exception of Portage Bridge (buses and emergency vehicles).;
• Southern route along the Alexandre-Taché stretch;
• Grade separation at Chemin Vanier (south branch);
• Grade separation at Des Grives (north route);
• Eaderly route in Aylmer.

[Kitchissippi]

My prediction is that the costs estimates are going to come up so high that it will force a major rethink of the entire project. This just reminds me too much of the NSLRT.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

My prediction is that the costs estimates are going to come up so high that it will force a major rethink of the entire project. This just reminds me too much of the NSLRT.

If that's the case, they'll have to eliminate one branch. Which one would make the cut is harder to predict.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Anyone want to place bets on the chosen route and level of grade separation for the project?

My predictions:

• Grade separation at Chemin Vanier (south branch);
• Grade separation at Des Grives (north route);

This is interesting. I'm curious what makes you think that these two intersections would be grade-separated? There are a number of others I'd probably do before these in order of priority:

• Laurier at Portage/Maisonneuve to allow trams to get from Laurier to the east side of the Portage Bridge. This is a particularly important stretch because it'll have to accommodate Aylmer, Plateau, and eventually Gatineau and Hull lines. The loop will also mean a T intersection of trams with various turning movements. If Maisonneuve/Portage dips below Laurier, it would free the surface of this monstrosity of an intersection for easy tram, pedestrian, and bike movement. The NCC could really capitalize on the space's central location and extraordinary views of Parliament to create a beautiful public space befitting one of the main entrances to Gatineau and Quebec.
• Laurier at Eddy, to avoid getting box-blocked by cars on the Chaudière Bridge. As mentioned above, this is likely to eventually be a very busy stretch for trams in the future, so we can't have three or four lines blocked by Karen's Dodge Caravan.
• Chemin d'Aylmer at Champlain Bridge, again for the busy turning movements. The tram might stay at the surface, and the westbound lane would dip below it to permit left turns onto the bridge under the tracks;
• Boulevard Plateau at Saint Raymond to avoid the busy turning movements;
  
  

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

This is interesting. I'm curious what makes you think that these two intersections would be grade-separated? There are a number of others I'd probably do before these:

• Boulevard Plateau at Saint Raymond to avoid the busy turning movements;
• Chemin d'Aylmer at Champlain Bridge, again for the busy turning movements. The tram might stay at the surface, and the westbound lane would dip below it to permit left turns onto the bridge under the tracks;
• Laurier at Eddy, to avoid getting box-blocked by cars on the Chaudière Bridge;
• Laurier at Portage/Maisonneuve to allow trams to get from Laurier to the east side of the Portage Bridge. If Maisonneuve/Portage dips below Laurier, it would free the surface of this monstrosity of an intersection. The NCC could really capitalize on the space's central location and extraordinary views of Parliament to create a beautiful public space befitting one of the main entrances to Gatineau and Quebec.

Vanier and Grives are two major intersections that intersect the line perpendicularly. I didn't include turns because I assume that would be more technically challenging to grade separate, but would still be worthwhile.

Chemin d'Aylmer and Champlain Bridge makes sense. Not sure how I forgot that one. If the tram line remains on the north side of the road however, grade separation may not be necessary (but could cause problems elsewhere).

There's a solid case for Eddy at Laurier grade separation. There are lots of opportunities between Montcalm and Eddy for a reconfiguration that could see the tram partially buried or in its own RoW. Same with Portage Bridge and Laurier.

There are just so many possible configurations. I'm looking forward to seeing the final concept.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

My predictions:

• Exclusive RoW (no sharing with cars, buses, emergency vehicles) with the exception of Portage Bridge (buses and emergency vehicles).;

Didn't they say the Portage bridge would need to be replaced to accommodate the tram? If that's the case, I would imagine the tram would get an exclusive ROW, no?

• Southern route along the Alexandre-Taché stretch;

I'm very curious to see what they go with in that section of the alignment. I prefer the alignment that goes south of UQO, but I can't see trams running on that residential section of Lucerne.

• Eaderly route in Aylmer.

I would bet on the Wilfrid-Lavigne/Allumettieres route, especially if they drop the northern branch, which is what I think is going to happen.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

Didn't they say the Portage bridge would need to be replaced to accommodate the tram? If that's the case, I would imagine the tram would get an exclusive ROW, no?

I don't know if they ever said it would need to be replaced, but it would need upgrades to support the load.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I don't know if they ever said it would need to be replaced, but it would need upgrades to support the load.

I think they used the term "reconstruction" at one point I figured that meant a significant rebuild, but I think you're right. It'd probably be more like an upgrade.

Still, there shouldn't be many buses crossing after the tram is operating and there's plenty of width available to forego the need for a mixed bus-LRT ROW. I bet they opt for an exclusive ROW on the bridge.

[J.OT13]

Hard to tell the extent of the Portage re-build. An exclusive RoW for the tram would be preferable, but it begs the question of where buses from east of the Gatineau will go.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Hard to tell the extent of the Portage re-build. An exclusive RoW for the tram would be preferable, but it begs the question of where buses from east of the Gatineau will go.

I suspect it would be transit only lanes for trams and buses.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I suspect it would be transit only lanes for trams and buses.

That's what I'm expecting on Laurier (Hull) up to Lyon on Wellington where trams and buses will split.

[sseguin]

West-End Gatineau Tram - Interview with Myriam Nadeau, President of the STO - March 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6Wz6S5NwRI

In this March 2021 interview with Myriam Nadeau, City Councillor for Pointe Gatineau and President of the STO, we discuss the West-End tram for Gatineau and answer the following questions:

-How a decision was made to pursue building a Tram/LRT in Gatineau.
-The advantages that the Tram/LRT will bring to commuters and citizens of Gatineau and in particular to those residing in the Plateau and Aylmer.
-The currently proposed routing options.
-The options for entry into Ottawa via the Portage Bridge: Surface on Wellington / Underground beneath Sparks.
-The timelines: work that has been completed, the next steps, and when might we see the first passengers ride this new transit service.
-How citizens can get involved during consultations, as well as providing feedback and support.

[rocketphish]

The following article, and many more existing ones, deserves it's own thread, but that's a big job, so for now this is going here.

[rocketphish]

Feds move to study Ottawa-Gatineau tram possibilities, give job to NCC

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Apr 19, 2021 • 8 minutes ago • 3 minute read

The federal Liberal government is on board with trying to centralize planning for some interprovincial public transit in the capital region, while reasserting its intention to build a new bridge between Ottawa and Gatineau.

The federal budget announced on Monday says two offices will be created to manage transportation between the two cities, with a special transit office established at the National Capital Commission looking specifically at potential tramway connections.

That’s potentially huge news for people calling for the creation of a transit “loop” between Ottawa and Gatineau using the interprovincial bridges.

The Friends of the Loop has been advocating for attention on the idea to connect the two downtowns with a single transit system, an idea that has been around for two decades but never pushed forward on any government agenda.

The budget calls for the NCC-located project office “to study and plan for potential interprovincial tramway connections between Ottawa and Gatineau, in addition to consulting and collaborating with municipal, provincial, and transportation partners.”

One of the cities is providing the catalyst for an interprovincial rail system.

The City of Gatineau and the Société de transport de l’Outaouais are working on a major transit project that would run a rail line from west Gatineau to the Portage Bridge, and then over the crossing into downtown Ottawa. It could effectively form one part of a transit loop connecting the two downtowns.

Gatineau has identified two options to run a tram through Ottawa: on the surface of Wellington Street to Elgin Street, or in a tunnel under Sparks Street.

The Wellington Street option has a high-level estimate of about $3 billion. The Sparks Street tunnel option is estimated between $3.532 billion and $3.899 billion.

The NCC board in January signalled its preference for a tram running on Wellington Street, while the City of Ottawa last year leaned toward the Sparks Street tunnel option because of the cramped corridor on Wellington Street for multiple modes of transportation. The City of Ottawa isn’t paying into Gatineau’s transit project.

The other interprovincial crossing that could provide the second link for a loop is the Alexandra Bridge, which the NCC is studying for replacement.

The CEO of the NCC, Tobi Nussbaum, has observed that a number of ongoing transportation projects happening at once, including an interprovincial transportation study, could provide the prime opportunity for long-term planning.

At the same time, the federal government is still interested in pursuing a new bridge connecting Ottawa and Gatineau.

The budget announced on Monday carves out a project office at Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC), working with the NCC, specifically to address the need for a new interprovincial crossing.

The government assigned bridge work to the NCC through the 2019 federal budget, asking the agency to review previously halted studies that suggested a crossing over Kettle Island was the best location for a sixth interprovincial bridge.

While the federal budget aims to establish the new project offices, there was no extra funding identified for the offices at PSPC and the NCC.

The NCC is also poised to receive more financial help to maintain its assets.

The budget earmarks $35 million, spread evenly over five years, for the agency to acquire and upkeep federal assets, green infrastructure and spaces in the capital region.

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...ves-job-to-ncc

[Richard Eade]

It sounds as if the Feds put very little importance on this issue. Based on previous examples, giving the NCC the job of ‘Studying’ the issue is likely to simply add a delay that is far too long and result in no further action to actually implement a solution. Basically, it sounds like they selected the ‘Do Nothing’ option, but want it to appear as if they are doing something.