The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Coldrsx]

Much more on the Calgary-Banff train here:

https://banffecotransithub.ca/wp-con...12-08-2021.pdf


From above

[Nouvellecosse]

Now that looks amazing! Seems hard to imagine we'll ever have that kind of regional rail anywhere in the country.

[ue]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Now that looks amazing! Seems hard to imagine we'll ever have that kind of regional rail anywhere in the country.

Which is really surprising considering this isn't really any different in terms of cost than an LRT expansion and would likely be very well utilized not unlike an LRT line. Certainly moreso than the Canadian currently receives.

[Coldrsx]

A small but mighty extension and infrastructure piece to our future south expansions to a new hospital/TOD and eventually onwards to YEG in a decade or two.

[IMG]Jarek Karpiejuk
• 1st
Director, LRT Infrastructure Projects at City of Edmonton
12m • 12 minutes ago

I am pleased to inform you that the City of Edmonton announced its decision to use a Design and Build delivery method for the Capital Line South LRT Extension. Stay tuned to hear more news soon!





https://www.linkedin.com/in/jarek-ka...P6W3ZF6w%3D%3D[/IMG]

[FrAnKs]

Here are some news about Québec City's Tramway :

(French)
https://tramwaydequebec.info/actuali...L5snG_H-xuuvy4

Here's a quick google translation to English :

A successful call for qualification for rolling stock
JANUARY 13, 2022 ADVANCEMENT
The construction of the Québec tramway reached a new stage with the closing, on January 12, of the call for qualification for rolling stock. The strong interest of the industry led to the filing of two applications of international caliber for this first part of the project:

Alstom Transport Canada Inc.

Siemens Mobility Limited

This result demonstrates the ever-present desire of rolling stock manufacturers to be involved in the Québec tramway. This success will ensure the best project at the best price, for the benefit of all citizens.

Procurement process
In June 2021, the City was forced to resume its procurement process in the face of a single bidder situation. To ensure healthy competitiveness in carrying out this major project, the decision was made to split the supply into two parts:

rolling stock
infrastructure.
Through this approach, it is desired to take advantage of the private sector's capacity for innovation and management of complex projects in order to deploy a high-performance, comfortable and well-integrated tramway in the urban setting of the capital.

Launched on September 10, this stage invited companies with the skills and expertise required to ensure the design, supply and maintenance of tramway trains to apply.

In the coming weeks, the files submitted will be analyzed in order to qualify the candidate(s), who will then be invited to participate in the call for proposals scheduled to be published in winter 2022. At the end of this process, the private partner selected to the rolling stock should be selected in the summer of 2022.

Extension of the Infrastructures call for qualification
The call for qualification for infrastructure will be extended by one month. The closing date is now set for February 22, 2022. This change responds to requests from potential candidates wishing to have additional time to prepare their file.

We are pleased with the current progress of the procurement process with the filing of two applications for the call for qualification for rolling stock as well as with sustained market interest in the call for qualification for infrastructure. We are very confident about the timelines for the completion of the project and do not anticipate any additional delays at this stage.

[Beedok]

Watching some videos from Sweden, it was interesting to see how often they had transit dedicated lanes and light stations being used for both trams and buses. Does that happen in Toronto or any Edmonton plans?

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Watching some videos from Sweden, it was interesting to see how often they had transit dedicated lanes and light stations being used for both trams and buses. Does that happen in Toronto or any Edmonton plans?

Not for Edmonton's Valley Line, it will be an exclusive ROW for the LRVs that buses will not be able to access.

[swimmer_spe]

Is there anyone that doesn't understand Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Does that little graphic suggest a central circle route serving Whyte Ave?

[DirectionNorth]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Is there anyone that doesn't understand Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

You it seems, since you keep bringing it up as an excuse for cities to have bad transit, 70 years after it happened.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by DirectionNorth

You it seems, since you keep bringing it up as an excuse for cities to have bad transit, 70 years after it happened.

Take a city that had streetcars, any city that had them, and those were ripped up. Tell me how that was a great thing for the city.

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by biguc

Does that little graphic suggest a central circle route serving Whyte Ave?

That's an old graphic now, the 'Circle Line' or 'Energy Line' was not included in the city's newest municipal development plan/official plan, so that concept is now effectively scrapped.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Watching some videos from Sweden, it was interesting to see how often they had transit dedicated lanes and light stations being used for both trams and buses. Does that happen in Toronto or any Edmonton plans?

That was the old North-South plan for Ottawa, where the overcapacity central Transitway would also accommodate a new rail service. We dodged a bullet when that was cancelled in favour of an East-West line with a downtown subway.

• Video Link

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Take a city that had streetcars, any city that had them, and those were ripped up. Tell me how that was a great thing for the city.

Ripping out the streetcars was a bad idea, but spending billions to re-establish streetcar networks from 65+ years ago is also a bad idea.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That was the old North-South plan for Ottawa, where the overcapacity central Transitway would also accommodate a new rail service. We dodged a bullet when that was cancelled in favour of an East-West line with a downtown subway.

• Video Link



Ripping out the streetcars was a bad idea, but spending billions to re-establish streetcar networks from 65+ years ago is also a bad idea.

Not if you live in the south end as I do. The replacement plan is great for service east-west but the replacement plan north-south is crap.

With the opening of the downtown tunnel, the surface tramway would have worked perfectly well. So, we would have had some issues for 9 years when buses and trains would have shared downtown. As it turns out, we have had issues for an even longer time.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Not if you live in the south end as I do. The replacement plan is great for service east-west but the replacement plan north-south is crap.

With the opening of the downtown tunnel, the surface tramway would have worked perfectly well.

The North-South plan up to Bayview was fine. The downtown portion was its fatal flaw. There was no capacity left on Albert and Slater. Running trains, buses and having idiots drive or park on the transit lanes would have been a disaster, even more so than it already was with bus lanes only.

At the time, there was no plan for a tunnel or any solution for east-west through downtown. Had Siemens and the Feds accepted to cut the plan to Bayview and figure out the downtown portion later, we'd be in a better place today, I'm sure. But we ended up with an all or nothing proposition, and cancelling was the best of those two options.

That said, the current Line 2 expansion is insufficient, for sure. We should have focused on double tracking instead of doubling the length of platforms. We should have dropped one or two of the middle of nowhere stations in exchange for a better service plan.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Ripping out the streetcars was a bad idea, but spending billions to re-establish streetcar networks from 65+ years ago is also a bad idea.

I am not suggesting putting back what was there. However, the fact that much of the transit that is being put in that is either a BRT or LRT in many of our smaller cities seems to follow old streetcar lines that have been ripped up over 60 years ago says a lot. Everyone likes to compare Canada's transit to Europe, but they fail to compare the political and systemic reasons that they have happened. Why is a line being completed this year when 20-30 years ago, part of it was filled in? What would it look like if construction had continued? A lot of people here either don't know history, or don't want to learn from history, or both. Let's learn from history, and ensure the bad doesn't happen going forward.

[jamincan]

With such an imbalance of service coming into downtown from the west vs. the east, I wonder if Ottawa will extend the LRT along the SE Transitway and run a split service like they used to do in the Transitway days with a Barrhaven-Orleans service and a Kanata-Riverside South service. They could then run the Kanata-Riverside South train as a split service between Riverside South and the Airport, and keep the Trillium Line as a shorter connector.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Harrison

That's an old graphic now, the 'Circle Line' or 'Energy Line' was not included in the city's newest municipal development plan/official plan, so that concept is now effectively scrapped.

Too bad. That would really put Edmonton over, plus provide a nice base from which to extend further service.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by jamincan

With such an imbalance of service coming into downtown from the west vs. the east, I wonder if Ottawa will extend the LRT along the SE Transitway and run a split service like they used to do in the Transitway days with a Barrhaven-Orleans service and a Kanata-Riverside South service. They could then run the Kanata-Riverside South train as a split service between Riverside South and the Airport, and keep the Trillium Line as a shorter connector.

Many decisions have been made in the name of economy and for other reasons that have made these future choices impossible. Basically the design choices (and it was discussed at the time) for the Confederation Line make sure that trains cannot be connected at either Hurdman Station (to the Southeast Transitway) or Bayview Station (to the Trillium Line).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The North-South plan up to Bayview was fine. The downtown portion was its fatal flaw. There was no capacity left on Albert and Slater. Running trains, buses and having idiots drive or park on the transit lanes would have been a disaster, even more so than it already was with bus lanes only.

At the time, there was no plan for a tunnel or any solution for east-west through downtown. Had Siemens and the Feds accepted to cut the plan to Bayview and figure out the downtown portion later, we'd be in a better place today, I'm sure. But we ended up with an all or nothing proposition, and cancelling was the best of those two options.

That said, the current Line 2 expansion is insufficient, for sure. We should have focused on double tracking instead of doubling the length of platforms. We should have dropped one or two of the middle of nowhere stations in exchange for a better service plan.

Frankly, I look at that massive flyover to replace the Ellwood diamond as another lost opportunity. In the name of short-term economy, we are building yet another structure (a massive one) on the Trillium Line designed for only single track operations.

We are designing the Trillium Line in hope of failure (or no more than modest success) because if it is a big success, we will create another problem with the Bayview transfer.

I know the history of Ottawa's rail plans and we can thank Larry O'Brien for moving us to a downtown subway, but his inexperience has also left a very negative legacy for the Trillium Line and everybody who lives in the south quadrant of the city.