Living in Gatineau vs Ottawa

[jt-mtl]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Given how high Quebec taxes are, I could see there being an appeal to living in Ontario even if you work in Quebec. Could be a lot of those 500 people are Franco-Ontarians who appreciate working in a more francophone environment than what the General, Civic, etc. would offer.

Please don't generalize that because of higher taxes in Quebec, the cost of living is higher in Gatineau than Ottawa. In fact, since I moved away from Ottawa to Aylmer, the overall cost of living and quality of life has been much fiscally better for my situation (married family with 2 kids).

It may not be the same for everyone, but in my case overall, when you look at city taxes, electricity bills, car and home insurance, it is fiscally better than to live in Gatineau than Ottawa (and we don't pay a water-sewer tax bill).

Yes, the income tax is higher, but there are ways to reduce that.

And we have more access to neighborhoods that are centrally located to the Ottawa core (Chinatown, Westboro, Downtown, The Market) than most folks who live out in Orleans, Barrhaven or Kanata.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jt-mtl

Please don't generalize that because of higher taxes in Quebec, the cost of living is higher in Gatineau than Ottawa. In fact, since I moved away from Ottawa to Aylmer, the overall cost of living and quality of life has been much fiscally better for my situation (married family with 2 kids).

It may not be the same for everyone, but in my case overall, when you look at city taxes, electricity bills, car and home insurance, it is fiscally better than to live in Gatineau than Ottawa (and we don't pay a water-sewer tax bill).

Yes, the income tax is higher, but there are ways to reduce that.

And we have more access to neighborhoods that are centrally located to the Ottawa core (Chinatown, Westboro, Downtown, The Market) than most folks who live out in Orleans, Barrhaven or Kanata.

Taxes (or cost of living even) or transportation are not the main reasons that keep many more thousands of people from moving from Ottawa to Gatineau.

Politics, language, different laws (like Bill 101 and the language of schooling) and just the cultural feel overall are probably bigger factors, in addition to the perceptions that public services are subpar in Gatineau compared to Ottawa. They'd be correct in terms of health care for sure, but not sure the perceptions match the reality when it comes to other stuff like education. (Seems like it's at least fairly equivalent as opposed to clearly subpar.)

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Taxes (or cost of living even) or transportation are not the main reasons that keep many more thousands of people from moving from Ottawa to Gatineau.

Politics, language, different laws (like Bill 101 and the language of schooling) and just the cultural feel overall are probably bigger factors, in addition to the perceptions that public services are subpar in Gatineau compared to Ottawa. They'd be correct in terms of health care for sure, but not sure the perceptions match the reality when it comes to other stuff like education. (Seems like it's at least fairly equivalent as opposed to clearly subpar.)

For me coming from Toronto, a big factor was just the general availability of close, walkable neighbourhoods. Gatineau doesn't really have the equivalent to the Glebe or Wellington West or New Edinburgh.

With kids entering high school, the Quebec resident university tuition would be a huge pull if I could just find somewhere that I wanted to live.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by phil235

For me coming from Toronto, a big factor was just the general availability of close, walkable neighbourhoods. Gatineau doesn't really have the equivalent to the Glebe or Wellington West or New Edinburgh.

That's definitely another motivator as well.

The closest thing is probably Wrightville just west of Les Galeries de Hull but it's still very subpar relative to its comparables in Ottawa.

Perhaps in a decade or so it will be up to snuff but right now it isn't.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by phil235

With kids entering high school, the Quebec resident university tuition would be a huge pull if I could just find somewhere that I wanted to live.

Not saying you're going to do it but it's a pensez-y bien.

AFAIK they do often check birthplaces and residency and I am pretty sure you can't just move to Quebec and then register your kids in a Quebec university with the cheaper tuition six months later. My guess is there are thresholds you need to meet regarding how long you and they have lived here.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not saying you're going to do it but it's a pensez-y bien.

AFAIK they do often check birthplaces and residency and I am pretty sure you can't just move to Quebec and then register your kids in a Quebec university with the cheaper tuition six months later. My guess is there are thresholds you need to meet regarding how long you and they have lived here.

I'm sure that you are right. Not sure how long you have to be a resident, but there must be a threshold. I'm pretty ensconced in Ottawa at this point, so if I do manage to convince my kids to go to McGill, I'm paying full freight.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by phil235

I'm sure that you are right. Not sure how long you have to be a resident, but there must be a threshold. I'm pretty ensconced in Ottawa at this point, so if I do manage to convince my kids to go to McGill, I'm paying full freight.

The good news is at least they won't pay any more than they'll pay at an Ontario university.

We charge you guys what you'd pay if you stayed in your own province I am pretty sure.

So an Ontarian studying in Quebec won't pay the same as a Newfoundlander.

Given the cost of living it's still worth it (in terms of bang for buck anyway) for an Ottawa kid to study in Montreal versus Toronto.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The good news is at least they won't pay any more than they'll pay at an Ontario university.

We charge you guys what you'd pay if you stayed in your own province I am pretty sure.

So an Ontarian studying in Quebec won't pay the same as a Newfoundlander.

Given the cost of living it's still worth it (in terms of bang for buck anyway) for an Ottawa kid to study in Montreal versus Toronto.

I didn't realize that's how it worked. Makes sense, and there is no doubt that Montreal is much cheaper overall than Toronto would be. Not to mention that McGill is well worth it at any price.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The good news is at least they won't pay any more than they'll pay at an Ontario university.

We charge you guys what you'd pay if you stayed in your own province I am pretty sure.

So an Ontarian studying in Quebec won't pay the same as a Newfoundlander.

Given the cost of living it's still worth it (in terms of bang for buck anyway) for an Ottawa kid to study in Montreal versus Toronto.

All this is easy to check in a couple of minutes on the McGill web site. It turns out that all Canadian Citizens, who are not Quebec residents, pay the same tuition. It does not matter from where in the ROC you are.

Tuition and fees for Canadian citizens
Your residency status will be evaluated after you've been admitted to McGill. For more information about residency requirements, consult our Legal documents website.

Tuition* $8,186
Ancillary fees* $1,952 - $3,864
Books & supplies $1,000
Total cost $11,138 - $13,050
*Fees vary by program; consult our Fee calculator to determine your estimated education costs by program.

Tuition and fees for Quebec residents
Your residency status will be evaluated after you've been admitted to McGill. For more information about residency requirements, consult our Legal documents website.

Tuition* $2,623
Ancillary fees* $1,952 - $3,864
Books & supplies $1,000
Total cost $5,575 - $7,487
*Fees vary by program; consult our Fee calculator to determine your estimated education costs by program.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

All this is easy to check in a couple of minutes on the McGill web site. It turns out that all Canadian Citizens, who are not Quebec residents, pay the same tuition. It does not matter from where in the ROC you are.

Hey, thanks for checking and correcting me!

[phil235]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

All this is easy to check in a couple of minutes on the McGill web site. It turns out that all Canadian Citizens, who are not Quebec residents, pay the same tuition. It does not matter from where in the ROC you are.

I was going to google it before I moved!

[harls]

I don't get the scary french factor for anglophones moving to Gatineau.

If anything, it's the 'taxes' argument.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by phil235

For me coming from Toronto, a big factor was just the general availability of close, walkable neighbourhoods. Gatineau doesn't really have the equivalent to the Glebe or Wellington West or New Edinburgh.

With kids entering high school, the Quebec resident university tuition would be a huge pull if I could just find somewhere that I wanted to live.

Same here. Actually the English education is maybe even better than in Ottawa. Kanata might be different but in central Ottawa French Immersion is all consuming leaving the English program sub par.

Wakefield and Chelsea are really the only places you could say have a unique character for lack of a better phrasing. Both have the small town and somewhat walkable feel but are closer to downtown Ottawa than anywhere equivalent in Ontario. Some people say downtown Aylmer but it's like three restaurants and a few shops. Plus very far away in terms of time.

Quebec residence is automatic if parents official residence is in Quebec. In fact it explicitly states there is no minimum time. Keep in mind CEGEP and the different system means you probably want to finish at least "Grade 11" on Quebec side but really kids don't want to switch at all during high school.

I think the whole politics both perception and reality is a greater impediment. It is bigger for people from Ottawa or even Ontario than for those of us from another province where it's more irrelevant.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

I don't get the scary french factor for anglophones moving to Gatineau.
.

You don't get why people feel that way, or you don't think that many people are actually motivated by that to *not* move to Quebec?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Quebec residence is automatic if parents official residence is in Quebec. In fact it explicitly states there is no minimum time. Keep in mind CEGEP and the different system means you probably want to finish at least "Grade 11" on Quebec side but really kids don't want to switch at all during high school.

.

That's interesting. I know people who've lived in Quebec their entire lives and whose kids (who've also never lived anywhere but Quebec) happen to have been born at Montfort in Ottawa (as many thousands of Gatineau kids are), who've gotten grief when applying to a Quebec university due to having an Ontario birth certificate.

This was a few years ago, mind you.

I also have cousins who are from the Maritimes who actually moved permanently to Quebec during their studies (spending all summers there, filing their tax returns there) and it actually took a while (read=years) for them to become eligible for lower Quebec tuition.

But perhaps things have changed recently.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Wakefield and Chelsea are really the only places you could say have a unique character for lack of a better phrasing. Both have the small town and somewhat walkable feel but are closer to downtown Ottawa than anywhere equivalent in Ontario. Some people say downtown Aylmer but it's like three restaurants and a few shops. Plus very far away in terms of time.

...

I think the whole politics both perception and reality is a greater impediment. It is bigger for people from Ottawa or even Ontario than for those of us from another province where it's more irrelevant.

Yeah, Wakefield and Chelsea are definitely appealing. Just not quite the urban environment that we were looking for.

I think that you are right about perception being the biggest issue. Having gone to school in Quebec, I wouldn't think twice about living there again, but there is definitely a reluctance among a good chunk of Ontarians.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's interesting. I know people who've lived in Quebec their entire lives and whose kids (who've also never lived anywhere but Quebec) happen to have been born at Montfort in Ottawa (as many thousands of Gatineau kids are), who've gotten grief when applying to a Quebec university due to having an Ontario birth certificate.

This was a few years ago, mind you.

I also have cousins who are from the Maritimes who actually moved permanently to Quebec during their studies (spending all summers there, filing their tax returns there) and it actually took a while (read=years) for them to become eligible for lower Quebec tuition.

But perhaps things have changed recently.

Grief yes but they are entitled just requires more paperwork. If you move to study under all Canadian law you remain a resident of where you finished high school. This protects provinces with higher incoming student numbers and in Quebec's case those that spend more on education. Only Quebec and Nova Scotia I believe have out of province rates but eligibility for student loans works in this manner.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You don't get why people feel that way, or you don't think that many people are actually motivated by that to *not* move to Quebec?

Sorry, it was 2 am when I posted that.

I don't get why people say things like 'I would move there, but I don't know French', like it is an insurmountable obstacle.

Then they confirm their decision by stating the taxes are higher there anyways.

[harls]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Some people say downtown Aylmer but it's like three restaurants and a few shops. Plus very far away in terms of time.

If you are talking about rue Principale, it is most definitely not what you describe. It's changed a lot, even in the 13 years I've been living here.

When I moved here, it reminded me a bit of Monkland Avenue in Montreal with the volume knob at half.

It's not that far away... if you have a car, I guess.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

Sorry, it was 2 am when I posted that.

I don't get why people say things like 'I would move there, but I don't know French', like it is an insurmountable obstacle.

Then they confirm their decision by stating the taxes are higher there anyways.

I agree it's a bit absurd but you and I would find surprising the number of people for whom being greeted with "bonjour monsieur comment ça va aujourd'hui?" is intimidating, jarring or just something they don't want to go through every place they go every day. Even if that person will switch to English within a split-second 80-90-98% of the time.