Philadelphia Transportation Thread

[thenbagis]

Changes coming to route 47...

Transit First pilot program to hit streets next month
By Anthony Campisi
http://planphilly.com/transit-first-...ets-next-month

It's been more than a year in the making, but Transit First is about to hit the streets of Philadelphia.

The city and SEPTA have chosen Route 47 to be the standard bearer for the project, which aims at improving transit speeds throughout the system.

SEPTA is one of the slowest transit systems when compared with its peers, and this pilot project ― which is slated to run for six months beginning April 18 ― is meant to change that.

Route 47, SEPTA's third-busiest surface route, is also one of its slowest, with an on-time performance of less than 75 percent.

And as anyone who rides the 47 during rush hour can attest, buses also bunch together and often become too crowded to even pick up riders.

[phillyscooter]

http://www.septa.org/fares/npt/contact.html

I think the outbound only collection is a disaster waiting to happen...what is so hard about TVM's at each station and a ticket required to exit at all CC locations, and other key stops....you could actually create barriers on just about any high platform stop if you like fencing....

why does Europe have no problem with onboard mag stripe ticket sales...they have used handheld devices there for years!

[volguus zildrohar]

I don't understand what the hubbub is about faregates at CC stations. Virtually every Regional Rail rider's trip either begins or ends in the CC zone so what exactly is the problem? If physical improvements need to be made to the stations to allow them to accommodate the delay of people swiping then make them - any other action (including keeping the status quo) makes no sense.

I would guess that the new farecards would be universal systemwide so that is an even more compelling reason to standardize entry methods systemwide - faregates for all.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Southeastern PA / Northern Delaware


Projects to be completed by 2020

Restoration of Trolley 56 & 23
Septa Regional Rail Wire and Signal overhaul
Trolley Replacement
Board Street car refurbishment / replacement
PATCO car refurbishment
Silverliner V car purchase completed
Reading line Restoration
Newton line restoration
Waterfront LRT
Franklin SQ reopening
BSL Extension to Navy Yards
Navy Yards LRT
Mutiple Station upgrades
High Level Platforms on Amtrak routes

Large Scale Rail Projects

Project : Newtown line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 11
Projected Ridership : 20,000


Project : Reading line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 10
Projected Ridership : 40,000



Project : West Chester line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 1 , 6 to West Chester
Projected Ridership : 4,000 (WaWa) 12,000 to west Chester


Project : Stony Branch / Cynwyd line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 10
Projected Ridership : 10,000


Project : Allentown line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 36
Projected Ridership : 40,000


Project : New Hope line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 5
Projected Ridership : 12,000


Project : Coatesville / Wilmington line
Number of lines :
Stations : 7
Projected Ridership : 5,000


Project : Oxford line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 6
Projected Ridership : 4,000


Project : Newark / Boothywn line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 15
Projected Ridership : 30,000


Project : Sports line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 3
Projected Ridership : 6,000



Project : Roosevelt Boulevard Subway
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 12
Projected Ridership : 90,000


Project : Naval Yards LRT
Number of lines : 3
Stations : 7
Projected Ridership : 25,000


Project : Waterfront LRT
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 12
Projected Ridership : 40,000


Project : MFL extension to RS line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 2
Projected Ridership : 15,000


Project : Restoration of Trolley 56
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 22
Projected Ridership : 50,000


Project : Restoration of Trolley 23
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 15
Projected Ridership : 55,000


Project : Restoration of Trolley 103
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 9
Projected Ridership : 12,000


Project : Grays / Washington Ave Trolley
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 10
Projected Ridership : 40,000


Project : 22nd / Snyder / 6th / City Hall Trolley
Number of lines : 4
Stations : 20
Projected Ridership : 70,000


Project : City Branch LRT
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 9
Projected Ridership : 20,000


Project : Cross County LRT
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 12
Projected Ridership : 30,000



Project : Norristown HSL extension to KOP
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 6
Projected Ridership : 12,000


Current system

Line : Warminster line
Length : 20 mi
Stations : 17
Ridership : 10,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 17,000

Line : West Trenton line
Length : 32 mi
Stations : 24
Ridership : 12,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 15,000

Line : Fox Chase line
Length : 11 mi
Stations : 8
Ridership : 6,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 26,000

Line : Norristown line
Length : 18 mi
Stations : 16
Ridership : 11,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 50,000

Line : Airport line
Length : 9 mi
Stations : 10
Ridership : 7,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 11,000

Line : Chestnut Hill East line
Length : 11 mi
Stations : 12
Ridership : 6,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 9,000

Line : Cynwyd line
Length : 6 mi
Stations : 5
Ridership : 600 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 2,000

Line : Chestnut Hill West line
Length : 11 mi
Stations : 13
Ridership : 6,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 9,000

Line : Lansdale / Doylestown line
Length : 34 mi
Stations : 27
Ridership : 19,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 25,000

Line : Trenton line
Length : 33 mi
Stations : 10
Ridership : 11,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 17,000

Line : Media / Elwyn line
Length : 18 mi
Stations : 19
Ridership : 10,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 22,000

Line : Paoli / Thorndale line
Length : 35 mi
Stations : 26
Ridership : 23,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 40,000

Line : Wilmington / Newark line
Length : 39 mi
Stations : 22
Ridership : 9,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 15,000

Line : Market - Frankford line
Length : 12 mi
Stations : 28
Ridership : 180,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 220,000

Line : PATCO
Length : 14 mi
Stations : 13
Ridership : 38,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 50,000

Line : Board Street line
Length : 12 mi
Stations : 25
Ridership : 137,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 215,000

Line : Subway - Surface Trolleys
Length : 50 mi
Stations : 40
Ridership : 80,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 100,000

Line : Route 15 Trolley
Length : 9 mi
Stations :
Ridership : 10,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 15,000

Line : Norristown HSL
Length : 13 mi
Stations : 22
Ridership : 9,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 20,000

[volguus zildrohar]

And who's that information according to? I've heard of maybe half of those projects and not even 1/10 of them will completed in nine years.

Where did restoration of the old 103 come from?

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar

And who's that information according to? I've heard of maybe half of those projects and not even 1/10 of them will completed in nine years.

Where did restoration of the old 103 come from?

Only the blue is planned for this decade at least form the Septa budgets , some is Amtrak and DPRA mixed in.... My Septa bus driver friend told me about the 103 , although i doubt it will happen. The rest can happen anywhere between 2025-2050...

[volguus zildrohar]

I'll just note on the ones that have question marks.

Restoration of Trolley Routes 56 & 23: Will not happen. Street trackage for Route 23 has been removed in a few locations. The most that I've ever heard about it - and this is from more than ten years of following anything SEPTA in teh internets (I can't believe my old photos are still on nycsubway and lightrail.org) - is partial restoration in Chestnut Hill. The 56 will not return because, unlike the 15, it doesn't run through gentrifying areas so nobody is asking for the trolleys to return. Additionally, this item has been in every five-year budget released since they were discontinued.

Newtown Line Restoration: There's still a good deal of political wrangling related to this one. Its return used to be a NIMBY issue but now people along the line want it back. The matter is Bucks County government and how much they're willing to put into details relating to the project.

Waterfront LRT: New Starts is the first question and that can't be answered until it is decided who's building it and who's operating it. Although PATCO has taken the lead as far as making the proposal public knowledge there are questions as to whether or not PATCO, a DRPA subsidiary, can operate a route solely in Philadelphia.

Navy Yards LRT: Is this an extension of the Waterfront LRT or something specifically for the Navy Yard itself? New to me.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar

I'll just note on the ones that have question marks.

Restoration of Trolley Routes 56 & 23: Will not happen. Street trackage for Route 23 has been removed in a few locations. The most that I've ever heard about it - and this is from more than ten years of following anything SEPTA in teh internets (I can't believe my old photos are still on nycsubway and lightrail.org) - is partial restoration in Chestnut Hill. The 56 will not return because, unlike the 15, it doesn't run through gentrifying areas so nobody is asking for the trolleys to return. Additionally, this item has been in every five-year budget released since they were discontinued.

Newtown Line Restoration: There's still a good deal of political wrangling related to this one. Its return used to be a NIMBY issue but now people along the line want it back. The matter is Bucks County government and how much they're willing to put into details relating to the project.

Waterfront LRT: New Starts is the first question and that can't be answered until it is decided who's building it and who's operating it. Although PATCO has taken the lead as far as making the proposal public knowledge there are questions as to whether or not PATCO, a DRPA subsidiary, can operate a route solely in Philadelphia.

Navy Yards LRT: Is this an extension of the Waterfront LRT or something specifically for the Navy Yard itself? New to me.

Its in the Budget for 2017-2025.....along with the other things listed above....the tracks being ripped out in some places is not a major thing....

[Phil_North]

I rode the new train for the first time this morning. I must say, it was quite impressive. I cannot wait until these new cars are deployed all over the system. The cars have a very modern feel to them. The demo car that was at Suburban station last year was a nice preview, but the actual car is much more impressive when actually ridden and with other passengers. The center aisle is very wide. Wide enough so that if a passenger must stand, they don't feel like they're intruding on the seated passengers. Doors in the center of the cars that open automatically allow for quicker loading and departing. The lights are very bright and the windows appear larger than the old cars. It feels like a sophisticated subway car. The monitors and computerized voice announce the stations. It reminded of a cross between the double-decker NJT cars and the subway cars used on the (route) L train in NYC.

As I write this, I wonder why there isn't a cheaper way to ride from Philly to NYC by rail. I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but $69 for a one seat ride during peak hours and $48 during off peak is just too expensive. The Septa/NJT combo is only $24.25 peak for the same ride, but that can last between 2 and 2.5 hours. It would be nice to see expanded NJT service all the way to 30th street via the NEC. I doubt it would ever happen though.

[Beta_Magellan]

I don’t think it’s entirely out of the question—MARC’s Penn Line might eventually stretch from Washington, D. C. to Wilmington (although it’s already a very fast commuter rail service).

From what I understand, part of the reason for high fares on the NEC is that demand exceeds current capacity.

[volguus zildrohar]

If NJT expanded down to 30th the R7 would become a glorified Dinky - especially on the weekends. I doubt it would ever be allowed by Amtrak as they own the NEC and wouldn't sensibly allow competing carriers to undercut them on their own trackage.

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by Phil_North

I rode the new train for the first time this morning. I must say, it was quite impressive. I cannot wait until these new cars are deployed all over the system. The cars have a very modern feel to them. The demo car that was at Suburban station last year was a nice preview, but the actual car is much more impressive when actually ridden and with other passengers. The center aisle is very wide. Wide enough so that if a passenger must stand, they don't feel like they're intruding on the seated passengers. Doors in the center of the cars that open automatically allow for quicker loading and departing. The lights are very bright and the windows appear larger than the old cars. It feels like a sophisticated subway car. The monitors and computerized voice announce the stations. It reminded of a cross between the double-decker NJT cars and the subway cars used on the (route) L train in NYC.

As I write this, I wonder why there isn't a cheaper way to ride from Philly to NYC by rail. I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but $69 for a one seat ride during peak hours and $48 during off peak is just too expensive. The Septa/NJT combo is only $24.25 peak for the same ride, but that can last between 2 and 2.5 hours. It would be nice to see expanded NJT service all the way to 30th street via the NEC. I doubt it would ever happen though.

I'm coining the term, Commuter Rail Rapid Transit (CRRT). A species of EMU commuter rail that is a mix between metro heavy rail and traditional electric commuter rail.

[thenbagis]

Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar

If NJT expanded down to 30th the R7 would become a glorified Dinky - especially on the weekends. I doubt it would ever be allowed by Amtrak as they own the NEC and wouldn't sensibly allow competing carriers to undercut them on their own trackage.

from a Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission (DVRPC) document:

PHILADELPHIA–NEW YORK “ONE SEAT RIDE”
The 2003 DVRPC Regional Rail Improvement Study, R7 Trenton Line, “One Seat
Ride” to New York Analysis (conducted by Systra Consulting) estimated a conservative demand floor for One Seat Ride commuter service to New York City of 1,924 one-way weekday riders. This assumed capturing a 20% share of current intercity bus riders, 90% of current SEPTA/NJ TRANSIT transferring riders, and 50% of current Amtrak riders. Induced demand among current drivers (including those who drive from Pennsylvania to New Jersey to board NJ TRANSIT trains to New York) was not considered, making the 1,924 estimate conservative. The trip was estimated to take 1 hour 40–50 minutes. Rail capacity constraints into New York and at New York Penn Station were indicated to be a limiting factor. The upcoming Access to the Region’s Core (ARC) tunnel project should address some of these impediments.

http://www.dvrpc.org/reports/08068.pdf
page 23

So... now that ARC is dead... We'll see if Son of ARC errr... Gateway Project can help up Philadelphians with a one-seat ride

[Phil_North]

thenbagis, Thanks for posting that quote. Access to NYC wouldn't be affected if NJT's Trenton line was simply extended. Some of the Trenton-bound NJT trains could simply continue along the local track to 30th street bypassing the local Septa stations along the way. (Unless there was time to intersperse these rides in between Amtrak trains on the express tracks.)

With Septa's Regional Rail already operating at capacity, it could actually help ease crowding on the former R7 if a few NJT trains ran from Trenton to 30th street. This way, you still have the same number of trains arriving and departing Penn Station NYC along with a one seat ride between Penn and 30th street.

[thenbagis]

Originally Posted by Phil_North

thenbagis, Thanks for posting that quote. Access to NYC wouldn't be affected if NJT's Trenton line was simply extended. Some of the Trenton-bound NJT trains could simply continue along the local track to 30th street bypassing the local Septa stations along the way. (Unless there was time to intersperse these rides in between Amtrak trains on the express tracks.)

With Septa's Regional Rail already operating at capacity, it could actually help ease crowding on the former R7 if a few NJT trains ran from Trenton to 30th street. This way, you still have the same number of trains arriving and departing Penn Station NYC along with a one seat ride between Penn and 30th street.

If you just "extended the NJT trenton line to 30th station" without adding any more trains... the frequency of trains would drop significantly. Instead of the train turning around at Trenton and heading back to NYC, you'd have the 2 hour round trip to 30th St and back before it started back to NYC. If (and this is a very very very big IF) the reduced frequency was acceptable, the trains would become very crowded.

From what I've read (probably on the website for the ARC and other ARC related articles)... basically every time slot in the hudson tunnels to Penn Station and the boarding platforms at Penn Station are "booked" right now. Without building, there can't be any more new service.

The closest option for Philadelphia to NYC one-seat would be possibly a Philadelphia to Secaucus Junction express, then transfer to another train from Secaucus to NYC. I'm not sure if there is even the capacity for something like that.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Honestly theres no point in extending NJT and overlapped Septa service. The Amtrak Keystone fills the gap nicely if , people want to move to PA then they have to live with the extra commuting times and costs. NJT isn't going to be everywhere. As for the ARC tunnel is became a badly designed project over the years , the New Gateway Project solves all the issues. Most trains will go into Hoboken Terminal for connections to Lower West Side , Lower Manhattan and Jersey City which are all growing job areas faster then Midtown. After the Pennsuaken Transfer station is completed there will be no need for extended NJT service to 30th Street as the South Jersey network will have ties to the North / Central Jersey network. Hopefully the NJT West Trenton line will be restored form West Trenton to Bound Brook although for another NJT > Septa connection aswell as Light Rail extension of the Riverline. That line is faster then the NEC , has less Congestion after a triple tracking is done , and should take a ton of pressure of the NEC an estimated 15,000 will ride the line.

[hammersklavier]

According to Cap'n Transit Rides Again, Nexis, Gateway will have fewer spaces available for commuter trains than ARC...but since the key access crunch point is with the ludicrous expense inherent in drilling new tubes under the Hudson, that is actually more easily rectifiable.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

According to Cap'n Transit Rides Again, Nexis, Gateway will have fewer spaces available for commuter trains than ARC...but since the key access crunch point is with the ludicrous expense inherent in drilling new tubes under the Hudson, that is actually more easily rectifiable.

This plan can be expanded ie the station can be , unlike the older plan. This plan should be good enough for 20 years , the older plan wouldn't last 10 years and couldn't be expanded.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

This plan can be expanded ie the station can be , unlike the older plan. This plan should be good enough for 20 years , the older plan wouldn't last 10 years and couldn't be expanded.

With what money? If the Feds don't award the entire amount from the surplus Florida HSR cash Gateway is shelved for at least a decade.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by k1052

With what money? If the Feds don't award the entire amount from the surplus Florida HSR cash Gateway is shelved for at least a decade.

Well part of it is moving Forward , which is a good thing. The Portal Bridge is # 2 for delays after the Tunnels , its being replaced.....as we speak. NJ - NY - Feds will probably fund it.... NY has committed to the New Station in NYC , and a few other things.... NJ is committed to the approaches and Portal Bridge....