[Halifax] 22nd Commerce Square | 85 & 85 M | 24 & 20 fl | On Hold

[RyeJay]

The colour can be changed, but ultimately I'm hoping for a change of building material. The one appreciable quality of that horrible accordion glass is that it provides a stunning contrast against the Merrill Lynch building. I wish for that contrast to be carried over, partially surrounding the historical bank -- only with smoother glass, perhaps?

Keeping Merril's fully intact is also something I like about this proposal.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

The colour can be changed, but ultimately I'm hoping for a change of building material. The one appreciable quality of that horrible accordion glass is that it provides a stunning contrast against the Merrill Lynch building. I wish for that contrast to be carried over, partially surrounding the historical bank -- only with smoother glass, perhaps?

Keeping Merril's fully intact is also something I like about this proposal.

I actually think the accordion design also has something to do with the proposal's aim for LEEDs and solar paneling.

Here's an excerpt from the info on the site:

High-performance, high-efficiency, low-emission mechanical systems to reduce 22nd Commerce Square’s operating costs including:
Geothermal heating and cooling
- A heat-recovery system that draws energy from sewage waste
- Photovoltaic panels on the hotel facade to generate electricity
- Solar hot water panels on the roof
- Rain water collection system to reduce the building’s demand on the city water supply, and serve such non-potable uses as toilets, landscape irrigation and the cooling tower

source: http://22ndcommercesquare.ca/#!prettyPhoto/2/

Here's a story about a Korean tower using photovoltaic solar panels in an accordion style design, to achieve world leading efficiency in a "solar" facade:
http://inhabitat.com/korean-tower-bo...solar-facades/

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

I actually think the accordion design also has something to do with the proposal's aim for LEEDs and solar paneling.

Here's an excerpt from the info on the site:

source: http://22ndcommercesquare.ca/#!prettyPhoto/2/

Here's a story about a Korean tower using photovoltaic solar panels in an accordion style design, to achieve world leading efficiency in a "solar" facade:
http://inhabitat.com/korean-tower-bo...solar-facades/

Although I find the glass to be rather ugly, I would like to thank you for those links. Very interesting!

[counterfactual]

Development was featured in the latest edition of Canadian Consulting Engineer Magazine:

http://www.canadianconsultingenginee...ax/1002635835/

[Dmajackson]

A Public Open House will be held for this project on Thursday, December 5th, 2013 in the lobby of the BMO Tower.

http://www.22ndcommercesquare.ca/

[Jonovision]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

A Public Open House will be held for this project on Thursday, December 5th, 2013 in the lobby of the BMO Tower.

http://www.22ndcommercesquare.ca/

I couldn't find it on the website. Do you know what time?

[Dmajackson]

Thu, December 5, 7pm – 9pm
5151 George Street, Halifax (Main Floor Lobby of the Bank of Montreal Building) (map)

Case 18858 Application by Lydon Lynch Architects Limited, on behalf of the lands of Robin Halifax Holding Ltd., to redevelop the lands bordered by George, Granville, Duke and Hollis Streets, known as RBC Block, within Downtown Halifax, to enable a mixed use commercial and residential project through the site plan approval process.

In association with Case 18858, another application by Lydon Lynch Architects Limited, on behalf of TDB Halifax Holding Ltd., to modify the façade of the TD Building facing Granville Street within Downtown Halifax to include an overhead pedestrian pedway connecting to the RBC Block development through the site plan approval process.

Representatives of Lydon Lynch Architect Limited will be present at the public open house to discuss the proposal and to answer questions from the public.

The meeting is open to anyone who wishes to attend to seek information about the proposal and/or express any comments which they may have.

For further information, please contact Eugene Pieczonka at Lydon Lynch Architect Limited at eugene@lydonlynch.ca, ph. (902)422-1446 or visit the website: www.22ndcommercesquare.ca

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Thu, December 5, 7pm – 9pm
5151 George Street, Halifax (Main Floor Lobby of the Bank of Montreal Building) (map)

Case 18858 Application by Lydon Lynch Architects Limited, on behalf of the lands of Robin Halifax Holding Ltd., to redevelop the lands bordered by George, Granville, Duke and Hollis Streets, known as RBC Block, within Downtown Halifax, to enable a mixed use commercial and residential project through the site plan approval process.

In association with Case 18858, another application by Lydon Lynch Architects Limited, on behalf of TDB Halifax Holding Ltd., to modify the façade of the TD Building facing Granville Street within Downtown Halifax to include an overhead pedestrian pedway connecting to the RBC Block development through the site plan approval process.

Representatives of Lydon Lynch Architect Limited will be present at the public open house to discuss the proposal and to answer questions from the public.

The meeting is open to anyone who wishes to attend to seek information about the proposal and/or express any comments which they may have.

For further information, please contact Eugene Pieczonka at Lydon Lynch Architect Limited at eugene@lydonlynch.ca, ph. (902)422-1446 or visit the website: www.22ndcommercesquare.ca

Here's the text from the press release:

http://22ndcommercesquare.ca/default.asp?mn=1.44

Love this proposal!

[counterfactual]

For those who didn't see it:











source: http://architexturestudio.com/archives/666


Like! I always worry with such large scale plans, that developers aren't serious at following through (ie Twisted Sister/Skye).

Developers are taking this one seriously, it seems. Excellent.

[Hali87]

The press coverage / public opinion also seems to be astoundingly positive so far.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Hali87

The press coverage / public opinion also seems to be astoundingly positive so far.

Indeed. This CH piece (today) is v positive:

Nice positive piece in the Chronicle Herald today, on new developments downtown in the core, many of them starting up next year:

Metro dotted with cranes as developers promote bold designs
December 26, 2013 - REMO ZACCAGNA BUSINESS REPORTER

A new Halifax-Dartmouth cityscape began to take shape this year as several major urban residential and commercial projects either started or were nearing completion.

It looks to be more of the same next year, with several cranes continuing to dot the ever-evolving skyline.

[ ... ]

Downtown’s second new office space, the $26-million expansion of the TD Centre tower, is expected to be completed in the fall, said Wolfgang Thiel, head of TDB Halifax Holdings Ltd.

Once finished, there will be an extra 100,000 square feet and three floors of class A office space to the 18-storey building at the corner of Barrington and George streets.

But Thiel said the entire building is being renovated, with all tenants from the second to fifth floors moving into their new digs by the end of January.

“There are tenants in the building which already moved into their final spaces,” he said in an interview.

“Most people think we have an old tower and a new tower, but the only thing left from the old tower is the concrete structure. Everything else, every single detail, is brand new.”

Meanwhile, Thiel, who also heads Robin Halifax Holdings Ltd., the company that owns the Royal Bank Tower and the block on which it stands, submitted his application to the city earlier this month to redevelop the site.

Thiel is proposing to build a 500,000-square-foot, twin-tower development, called 22nd Commerce Square that will bound Granville, George, Hollis and Duke streets.

If approved, it will include a 96-suite boutique hotel, a public atrium and a restaurant and conference centre in a restored Bank of Commerce Building, as well as 88 condominium units, 200,000 square feet of office space, street-level retail space along Granville, Duke and Hollis streets and underground parking for 300 vehicles.

A proposal to construct a pedway crossing Granville Street between George and Duke streets to connect with the TD Centre building has also been submitted.

“Everything is done and goes the normal way through January and February, and hopefully in March, we see the approval,” Thiel said, adding that construction would begin early in 2015.

[...]

source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/busines...t_read=1176030

[counterfactual]

Really excited for this thing to get approval, and get built.

I'm sure some of the design will change, but I hope most of it, including the cantilever, as well as the innovative incorporation of solar paneling on windows, will remain.

Like the new Library and Convention Center, this will be another development that people will literally come downtown to see.

We need more daring, innovative, and original architectural work downtown like this.

Next stop: if his Mirvish town proposal gets ditched in Toronto, get Frank Gehry down here to build something-- maybe a design to turn the old Spring Garden library into a new art gallery / museum?

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Really excited for this thing to get approval, and get built.

I hope so... RBC is one of the last tallish eyesores downtown after TD is done.

It would be cool if they leave BMO alone, at least in external appearance, I like the contrast with the others... a truly big city feel.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I hope so... RBC is one of the last tallish eyesores downtown after TD is done.

It would be cool if they leave BMO alone, at least in external appearance, I like the contrast with the others... a truly big city feel.

Yeah, my understand is BMO is left untouched by the development. They own it, but 22 Commerce will certainly complement BMO tower which, yeah, I also like.

RBC tower does get entirely demolished, however.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Really excited for this thing to get approval, and get built.

I'm sure some of the design will change, but I hope most of it, including the cantilever, as well as the innovative incorporation of solar paneling on windows, will remain.

Because of the accordion solar windows and the boxy method this proposal "avoids" the Bank of Commerce Building, I've encountered many opinions that this development is a "monstrosity."

Everyone with whom I've spoken is glad and even excited that something will be built here...but from what I've gathered, the amount of displeasure from the more controversial aspects of this project is not at all modest.

Although people think the renderings of the Nova Centre are beautiful, many of these same people are quite embarrassed by what 22nd Commerce Square is currently proposing.

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Next stop: if his Mirvish town proposal gets ditched in Toronto, get Frank Gehry down here to build something-- maybe a design to turn the old Spring Garden library into a new art gallery / museum?

Hahaha, I wish! Although...Frank Gehry might want something over 60 storeys.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Because of the accordion solar windows and the boxy method this proposal "avoids" the Bank of Commerce Building, I've encountered many opinions that this development is a "monstrosity."

Everyone with whom I've spoken is glad and even excited that something will be built here...but from what I've gathered, the amount of displeasure from the more controversial aspects of this project is not at all modest.

Although people think the renderings of the Nova Centre are beautiful, many of these same people are quite embarrassed by what 22nd Commerce Square is currently proposing.

Certainly, and even opinion on here was pretty strongly split. I think the solar paneling, as a component, is fantastic, but should probably be refined from the current proposal.

But I think (critical) SSPer opinion is different from any overall critical sentiment out there more generally.

I chalk up a lot of the stronger opposition out there to, again, a conservativism in this city about anyone trying something new or different. Go to NYC or any other major city, and designs like this win architectural accolades.

"Best New Buildings of the Decade: NYC"
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2009/1...the_decade.php

People can reasonably disagree about whether some of the designs highlighted on that site are much more "elegant" than this 22 Commerce Square proposal, but the notion that some of those refinements in design make the difference between award winning architecture and "monstrosity" is baloney. We have some serious architectural Tall Poppy syndrome in this city: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

We don't like new or different here. Hopefully, new and different designs like this are needed to shake us out of that stupor.

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Hahaha, I wish! Although...Frank Gehry might want something over 60 storeys.

Very true. Though, his design for the ROM could fit under HRMxD rules...

[robotropolis]

Wow, I think I like modern and different buildings, but that accordion really is somethin' else. I think it would be more successful if it wasn't topped by something a lot more conservative and square and connected laterally to something different, conservative and square. Or if it were centered under the overhang. Or if it wasn't such a disproportionate amount of the total building mass. Or if it wasn't 80's black.

If you take that first faceted building, which is beautiful, as an example in the DC link, the faceting really dominates the building and is allowed pride of place. Not hanging out under a giant block. Also not that I'm a solar expert, but does a giant block overhang cut down on your solar efficiency?

I think a very unusual facade works best when it's a singular statement and really allowed to dominate or when it's an accent in an otherwise conservative building.

Put another way, the fun element should probably be like 10-20% of the building mass or 80%-90%. Here it's 50% of the one tower, and each tower has like two different and equal elements going on, so it just looks like two very different elements pasted together. My idea -- ditch the black and use colorful glass, add a bit more lean on the fun tower, center the block overhang a bit more, and make it look like a jack in the box!

In this building, 90% fun

(Taiwan, Neo Solar Power Corporation headquarters)


90% + fun, 10% accents -- the accordion design is for solar electric





(Seoul, Federation of Korean Industries Tower)

[Nilan8888]

Because of the accordion solar windows and the boxy method this proposal "avoids" the Bank of Commerce Building, I've encountered many opinions that this development is a "monstrosity."

Everyone with whom I've spoken is glad and even excited that something will be built here...but from what I've gathered, the amount of displeasure from the more controversial aspects of this project is not at all modest.

Although people think the renderings of the Nova Centre are beautiful, many of these same people are quite embarrassed by what 22nd Commerce Square is currently proposing.

Although I think using the word "monstrosity" is engaging in hyperbole, I would personally agree with those views. I think the site needs something much taller and that it's a bit silly that the birthplace of Canada's largest bank has the second-smallest Halifax footprint of the major 5 (Scotiabank, the other bank that solely came out of NS -- since CIBC came through the merger of two NS and Ontario banks -- has an even smaller one).

But the design for this is just not doing it for me. The windows aren't my favorite, but it's really the awkward shape in its efforts to work around the BOC building.

If Halifax were 2-3 times its current size, maybe I wouldn't care: then maybe there's be enough presence to try something this different and new, and see if it worked out. But Halifax's financial core, such as it is, is very small. It consists of, essentially, 5 very visible towers. The TD tower expansion is exactly what's needed and I'm all for that. And I'm all for making what we can out of the RBC tower. But we really need to get it right, and not be left with something everyone regrets for decades.

I'd rather they make something brighter, taller than any of the adjacent towers, and more consistent with the RBC style of gold and blue. If they really want to build something "on top" if the BOC, better they attach it somehow then have an awkward-looking shadowy overhang that I'm not really sure is going to work.

[Phalanx]

I think the overhang is a bit jarring. I suppose the right angle is in keeping with the angular features of the rest of the building, but a curve or some other transition may have helped.

And the accordion section seems like a half measure. Just another addition to an already busy design.

Here's another office/hotel proposal in Nashville that used (the design was later radically changed) accordion-style integrated solar panels/windows with better aesthetic results.
http://giarratana.com/media/images/l...01_15_10_B.jpg
http://archpaper.com/uploads/image/n..._church_00.jpg
http://archpaper.com/uploads/nashvil..._church_01.jpg

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by robotropolis

Wow, I think I like modern and different buildings, but that accordion really is somethin' else. I think it would be more successful if it wasn't topped by something a lot more conservative and square and connected laterally to something different, conservative and square. Or if it were centered under the overhang. Or if it wasn't such a disproportionate amount of the total building mass. Or if it wasn't 80's black.

If you take that first faceted building, which is beautiful, as an example in the DC link, the faceting really dominates the building and is allowed pride of place. Not hanging out under a giant block. Also not that I'm a solar expert, but does a giant block overhang cut down on your solar efficiency?

I think a very unusual facade works best when it's a singular statement and really allowed to dominate or when it's an accent in an otherwise conservative building.

Put another way, the fun element should probably be like 10-20% of the building mass or 80%-90%. Here it's 50% of the one tower, and each tower has like two different and equal elements going on, so it just looks like two very different elements pasted together. My idea -- ditch the black and use colorful glass, add a bit more lean on the fun tower, center the block overhang a bit more, and make it look like a jack in the box!

Don't disagree with these points necessarily, but I'm not sure the second building design you posted there works so well. It actually looks pretty traditional and boring.

I'm not saying this design is perfect, but I like that it's different and daring.