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  #61  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2014, 1:07 AM
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There's some really interesting stuff in the draft West Quadrant Plan [PDF], which what the Oregonian article above references. I've only just had a chance to skim read it, but things that jump out at me are capping the freeway between the West End and Goose Hollow, a Green Loop along the park blocks, encouraging more development along Naito Parkway in downtown, redeveloping the smartpark at SW 3rd & Alder & redesigning O'Bryant square.
Green loop blog

and on bikeportland
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  #62  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2014, 8:06 PM
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  #63  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2014, 6:47 AM
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I imagine we will see a number of residential buildings popping up in the West End in the coming decade which will really beef up the downtown.
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  #64  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2014, 12:15 AM
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Not sure exactly where to put this. WWeek had a link to the recent BPS report on development. Click on "report" in the article. Shows maps of every neighborhood where zoning was changed.
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  #65  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2015, 8:56 PM
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Is Portland ready to grow up? 10 takeaways from the 20-year plan for the westside



Portland's skyline could look quite a bit different in 20 years. Planners are suggesting taller buildings be allowed in some areas of town, including specific blocks in historic Old Town. More 40 story buildings could be built, if developers take advantage of density bonuses and other incentives.


By Andrew Theen | The Oregonian/OregonLive

Portland is growing up.

The blueprint for the next 20 years of development on the city's westside is almost ready for prime time.

On Wednesday, the City Council held a more than four hour public hearing on planning proposals that could be coming to the downtown core.
Background: In 2012, The Oregonian's Anna Griffin had a three-part series ahead of the Central City 2035 process (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3)
The planning process is winding to a close after more than two years of work. Nearly 70 people testified to talk about the West Quadrant component of the city's Central City 2035 plan. The West Quadrant is Portland's downtown, South Waterfront, Pearl District, Goose Hollow and everything in between (see map below).

The City Council didn't approve the plan on Wednesday - they plan to take up the issue again in a few weeks. More changes could be in the works.
...continues at the Oregonian.
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  #66  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2015, 11:26 PM
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Hopefully the more changes ahead won't be reducing building heights.
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  #67  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2015, 12:02 AM
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Hopefully the more changes ahead won't be reducing building heights.
I don't think the central core should have any building height limits. Tall buildings don't harm anyone.
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  #68  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2015, 7:06 AM
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I don't think the central core should have any building height limits. Tall buildings don't harm anyone.
They can harm future development. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a new tallest in town, but when you think of sqft one massive building can overbuild a downtown area very quickly.
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  #69  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2015, 7:32 AM
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I've been listening to yesterdays' council hearing so that you don't have to. (I'm a couple hours in. If it were a drinking game where I took a shot every time Amanda Fritz asks what the community thinks, I'd be very drunk right now). Anyway, although the West Quadrant Plan doesn't propose any increase in height limits in the West End of Downtown, person after person was lining up to testify that the council should reduce the height limits to 100'. It was actually quite entertaining to hear Suzanne Crowhurst Lennard, with her terribly posh English accent, rant about the negative effects of tall buildings, capitalism and the World Bank. I doubt however that it will have any impact on the plan.
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  #70  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2015, 7:40 AM
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Originally Posted by maccoinnich View Post
I've been listening to yesterdays' council hearing so that you don't have to. (I'm a couple hours in. If it were a drinking game where I took a shot every time Amanda Fritz asks what the community thinks, I'd be very drunk right now). Anyway, although the West Quadrant Plan doesn't propose any increase in height limits in the West End of Downtown, person after person was lining up to testify that the council should reduce the height limits to 100'. It was actually quite entertaining to hear Suzanne Crowhurst Lennard, with her terribly posh English accent, rant about the negative effects of tall buildings, capitalism and the World Bank. I doubt however that it will have any impact on the plan.
Wow, thanks for taking one for the team. The people who show up to these things should really be carted off to the loony bin. If these people had their way, downtown would be leveled except for two story buildings.

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  #71  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2015, 3:50 PM
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I, personally, think every building should be limited to the height of its original model...

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  #72  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2015, 4:57 PM
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Well the highlight for me was right at the end when Steve Novick, ever the comedian, said that he felt compelled to complain "about the idea that all anybody seems to care about is height". The strangest part was when a letter was read out loud, from the former board president of the Eliot Condominiums, asking that heights in the West End be reduced to 100'.

Although Novick's line was a joke, there was a good point there. There was very little testimony on big ideas in the document such as the Green Loop, riverbank restoration / restoration, extending the retail core, housing growth, the hierarchy of retail/boulevard/flexible streets, tree canopy, freeway capping, etc etc.
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  #73  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2015, 11:41 PM
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Well the highlight for me was right at the end when Steve Novick, ever the comedian, said that he felt compelled to complain "about the idea that all anybody seems to care about is height". The strangest part was when a letter was read out loud, from the former board president of the Eliot Condominiums, asking that heights in the West End be reduced to 100'.

Although Novick's line was a joke, there was a good point there. There was very little testimony on big ideas in the document such as the Green Loop, riverbank restoration / restoration, extending the retail core, housing growth, the hierarchy of retail/boulevard/flexible streets, tree canopy, freeway capping, etc etc.
That right there pisses me off, if you live in an apartment building downtown, you lose the right to complain that everything should be shorter than what you live in because it might block your view.

I would have to say, this right here is why I would never want to be a City Council member, I would cuss so much at people saying stupid things like this.
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  #74  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2015, 2:52 AM
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That right there pisses me off, if you live in an apartment building downtown, you lose the right to complain that everything should be shorter than what you live in because it might block your view.

I would have to say, this right here is why I would never want to be a City Council member, I would cuss so much at people saying stupid things like this.
I'd argue it is criminal when we have a shortage of housing and skyrocketing rents. This is a member of the landed class trying to make their moat wider and deeper, nothing our bureaucracy should appease.

I agree, this person makes me angry in a Marie Antoinette sense, but at least Marie was naive. This guy is just a psychopath.
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  #75  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2015, 2:56 AM
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I, personally, think every building should be limited to the height of its original model...

Underground buildings only! Humans are allergic to altitude and vertigo causes birth defects and blah blah blah!

/antcity
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  #76  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2015, 11:01 AM
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Underground buildings only! Humans are allergic to altitude and vertigo causes birth defects and blah blah blah!

/antcity


Guess H. G. Wells was right...
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  #77  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2015, 6:19 PM
Encolpius Encolpius is offline
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Originally Posted by PDXDENSITY View Post
I agree, this person makes me angry in a Marie Antoinette sense, but at least Marie was naive. This guy is just a psychopath.
Forumers: honestly, I don't understand outbursts of aggression like these. Your targets are, after all, members of the community who appear to care passionately about the well-being of their neighborhoods and take the time to involve themselves in the sort of public process that, by your own admission, most of you couldn't be bothered to turn up for (thank you to those who do, and report them to us). They're not opponents of density, they're not mouthpieces for out-of-town interests or sprawl developers; they just happen to disagree with you (for mostly well-articulated reasons) about the relationship between building height and livability.

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If these people had their way, downtown would be leveled except for two story buildings.
Are you perhaps misunderstanding their point of view?

As the woman with the pretentious Brit accent points out, high density does not automatically mean buildings taller than 100 feet. 'Even BPS’s own publication... reported [that] Portland does not need height to compensate for any foreseeable shortage of development capacity.' If density can be achieved (and perhaps spread over a far larger area of the central city and eastside) without towers, then why is building high so imperative? I haven't heard any very articulate reasons on this forum so far, just variants of a false dilemma between highrises or no new development whatsoever.

The South Waterfront, which has been deliberately built as high as the market will sustain, is by all accounts (I haven't lived in Portland for a while so tell me if I'm grossly mistaken here) a dreary place that doesn't feel very 'Portland' at all; in fact, it lacks the diversity of street life and cultural activity that distinguish what most of us think of as 'urban'. The sections of the Pearl District built to lower height limits have a much different feel. They feel simply like pricier, snootier versions of older Portland neighborhoods like NW, Buckman or Boise-Eliot. Ms. Crowhurst Lennard gives plenty of reasons (link that mac posted), grounded in very recent social science research, why neighborhoods composed predominantly of 'human-scale, five- to eight-story, stepped back, mixed-use building[s] around an interior garden courtyard' promote a more vibrant community and collective life, and a more sustainable and affordable city overall. A height limit of 100 feet would produce a neighborhood of buildings like these. What's so intolerable about that?

Moreover, why is it impossible for some people to have a rational conversation about the future of cities without caricaturing their opponents as Morlocks? Didn't the awful twentieth century sufficiently teach us to beware of this haughty and disdainful variety of 'urbanism'?
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  #78  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2015, 6:39 PM
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I mostly agree with you, with a few caveats. For one thing, while there are a lot of development opportunities in the central city, many of them are tied up in surface parking (at least downtown) and the owners don't seem very interesting in doing anything with their properties. So we have fewer real development opportunities than in theory. Moreover, anyone who rents here is paying through the nose, and rents will return to earth more quickly with higher buildings.
Now, having said that, many on this forum look to places like Copenhagen as models of development, but if you look at Google Streetview for Copenhagen, there's not much in the way of high rises. In face, much of the housing is relatively low-rise. I spent a week in Cologne a few years ago in a very very walkable neighborhood - there was one, anomalous, 16 story tower, but everything else was not only 3 story buildings, each of them had pretty decent sized courtyards inside. The actual density wasn't that high. Another example: San Francisco. Yes, there are a few very tall buildings, but most of the city is around 3-4 stories. And no one would say that SFO isn't vibrant. Yes, SFO has its own problems of unaffordability due to lack of development opportunities that are built at their full density. I think the problem with this lady's testimony is that some parts of town are well known for being more interested in preserving their property values than in really being worried about the city.
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  #79  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2015, 7:46 PM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is online now
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Originally Posted by Encolpius View Post
Forumers: honestly, I don't understand outbursts of aggression like these. Your targets are, after all, members of the community who appear to care passionately about the well-being of their neighborhoods and take the time to involve themselves in the sort of public process that, by your own admission, most of you couldn't be bothered to turn up for (thank you to those who do, and report them to us). They're not opponents of density, they're not mouthpieces for out-of-town interests or sprawl developers; they just happen to disagree with you (for mostly well-articulated reasons) about the relationship between building height and livability.
With the exception of the woman who lives in the Eliot—a high rise building!— I mostly agree with you that the opponents of height were testifying because they believe it's the best thing for the city. I think they're wrong, and it's important to realize how radical a change it is. They are proposing completely altering height limits that have been in place now for four decades, without any public consultation.

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Are you perhaps misunderstanding their point of view?

As the woman with the pretentious Brit accent points out, high density does not automatically mean buildings taller than 100 feet. 'Even BPS’s own publication... reported [that] Portland does not need height to compensate for any foreseeable shortage of development capacity.' If density can be achieved (and perhaps spread over a far larger area of the central city and eastside) without towers, then why is building high so imperative? I haven't heard any very articulate reasons on this forum so far, just variants of a false dilemma between highrises or no new development whatsoever.
People sometimes point to Paris as a model for a dense, medium rise city. It's true that Paris is very dense, but it achieves that by being very consistently dense. If there are any single family detached houses in the inner arrondissements, they're certainly very rare. This is not a model that's replicable to Portland. From a theoretical point of view, we could decide to tear down all the houses in Ladd's Addition and replace them with 8 story buildings, but in a city where 4 story building at 33rd & Division are controversial, I don't see it happening.

A lot of people at the hearing spoke about their desire to save the historic buildings in the West End. I entirely agree with them. The collection of churches in particular is one of the things that makes the neighborhood special. But if we remove them from the list of developable sites, and we want to massively increase the population in the West Quadrant, then we have to be realistic about how where we're going to get that capacity.

Suzanne Crowhurst Lennard talked about how unaffordable Hong Kong and Singapore are, as if that is inextricably linked to the fact that they have many high rises. She darkly referred to "global investors" and the "World Bank". Well, San Francisco is a mostly low rise city (outside of the Financial District) and it's now unaffordable to anyone who doesn't work in the tech industry. The London property market is now completely dominated by petrol money and Russian oligarchs, despite the fact that it too is mostly low rise.

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Originally Posted by Encolpius View Post
The South Waterfront, which has been deliberately built as high as the market will sustain, is by all accounts (I haven't lived in Portland for a while so tell me if I'm grossly mistaken here) a dreary place that doesn't feel very 'Portland' at all; in fact, it lacks the diversity of street life and cultural activity that distinguish what most of us think of as 'urban'.
I would encourage you to go see South Waterfront again next time you're in Portland. The neighborhood initially had an issue that a lot of capacity was released into the market right as the global economic crisis hit. For a few years, there were not many people or businesses there. In the last few years it was really changed, and a lot of new businesses have opened up. Go there today, and the streets are actually fairly busy with people. The area where the streetcar, tram, and bicycle valet all meet is one of my favorite urban scenes in Portland. With its large number of cyclists, its LEED buildings and its wonderful open spaces it is a very 'Portland' neighborhood, unless your notion of 'Portland' is very narrowly drawn to only include the streetcar suburbs.

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Originally Posted by Encolpius View Post
The sections of the Pearl District built to lower height limits have a much different feel. They feel simply like pricier, snootier versions of older Portland neighborhoods like NW, Buckman or Boise-Eliot. Ms. Crowhurst Lennard gives plenty of reasons (link that mac posted), grounded in very recent social science research, why neighborhoods composed predominantly of 'human-scale, five- to eight-story, stepped back, mixed-use building[s] around an interior garden courtyard' promote a more vibrant community and collective life, and a more sustainable and affordable city overall. A height limit of 100 feet would produce a neighborhood of buildings like these. What's so intolerable about that?
And yet in the Pearl we have a model of a very livable community with many buildings over 100'. The map below, taken from the Block 136 Design Review, shows the heights of existing buildings in the Pearl. Notably it includes the three of the buildings in the Brewery Blocks, the 937, the Encore, the Casey, the Metropolitan and the Edge Lofts, all of which I think are pretty successful projects. Immediately outside of the Pearl there is the Indigo, which is a great mixed use building that has a great presence both on the skyline and at the street level.

I'm not going to repost why I thought that article in the NW Examiner was terrible, but you can read my comments below it. In short, it was full of non-sequiturs and statements without any evidence to back the statements up.



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Originally Posted by Encolpius View Post
Moreover, why is it impossible for some people to have a rational conversation about the future of cities without caricaturing their opponents as Morlocks? Didn't the awful twentieth century sufficiently teach us to beware of this haughty and disdainful variety of 'urbanism'?
I feel like you might have nailed it here. Although I'm not incredibly familiar with Suzanne Crowhurst Lennard's career, my guess is that she's of an older generation of urbanists that reacted again the worst examples of mid-20th Century urban planning. And that's fine; someone needed to. I grew up in Scotland, which built high rise social housing with great enthusiasm in the 1960s. Scotland is now tearing down all those towers with equal enthusiasm. We shouldn't be doing towers in the park style planning. But no one is proposing that, and the Portland Zoning Code has plenty of provisions to prevent it. (Ground floor active uses, maximum setbacks, transit street main entrances, etc etc).

In summary, I think the people testifying were doing so from a position of what urbanists like Leon Krier tell them about tall buildings, and not from a position of what the reality on the ground in Portland is.
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Last edited by maccoinnich; Feb 8, 2015 at 9:46 PM.
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  #80  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2015, 8:49 PM
PDXDENSITY PDXDENSITY is offline
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Originally Posted by Encolpius View Post
they just happen to disagree with you (for mostly well-articulated reasons) about the relationship between building height and livability.

Are you perhaps misunderstanding their point of view?
No, I am not. I believe the true measure of livability will be maintaining our UGB and allowing growth to happen within it. The true choice of livability is between further subsidizing sprawl or protecting the ecosystem by creating a dense, connected neighborhood. If these folks aiming for height restrictions aren't considering these realities, they aren't making informed pleas to livability. Like another said, I am not arguing for towers in a park-- I want our city to work for us AND the environment.

We simply cannot do that with people continually pushing back on height in our central core. It is at its lightest delusional and misinformed and at its heaviest, an actually ecologically damaging point of view. It makes me less forgiving when people aren't considering the big picture for their idea of a "livable" view from a condo they bought a few years ago.
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