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  #61  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 5:38 PM
TheRitsman TheRitsman is offline
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Originally Posted by craftbeerdad View Post
While I'm glad this will improve the air quality for the lower city and surrounding areas and transition to a cleaner process, it's a bit bizarre that a foreign entity received this large financial injection.
Majority of the funds are being paid by the company themselves, and the goal of the carbon tax and the like is to basically rebate investments like this to incentivize this kind of change, so I see no major issues. They are taxed on carbon emissions, and then are given money to change to emit less, makes sense as a tax and rebate system.
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  #62  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TheRitsman View Post
Majority of the funds are being paid by the company themselves, and the goal of the carbon tax and the like is to basically rebate investments like this to incentivize this kind of change, so I see no major issues. They are taxed on carbon emissions, and then are given money to change to emit less, makes sense as a tax and rebate system.
Exactly! And this is the point that detractors and opponents don't get or don't like... a prime example is the Ford government, who campaigned on ending "the cap and trade carbon tax" (a deliberate misnomer) and did exactly that until the federal government cut their hands off re: this issue.

These taxes should never be counted on to create a permanent stream of revenue. They're meant to create change. Taking some of the money that comes from the tax and investing it in the kind of thing AM Dofasco will be doing leads to that, and thus the tax is doing its job.
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  #63  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2021, 4:00 PM
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I don't have a problem with this, I'm saying it's selective (didn't Stelco only receive $50M in 2019?).

A great idea to help with the climate would be incentivizing residential sources of energy change, and encourage people to switch from natural gas as an energy source. That would help decrease emissions dramatically in this country.
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  #64  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2021, 5:21 PM
TheRitsman TheRitsman is offline
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Originally Posted by craftbeerdad View Post
I don't have a problem with this, I'm saying it's selective (didn't Stelco only receive $50M in 2019?).

A great idea to help with the climate would be incentivizing residential sources of energy change, and encourage people to switch from natural gas as an energy source. That would help decrease emissions dramatically in this country.
I mean, I think a big reason is that Hamilton is one of, if not the worst municipality in Canada for emissions. The health of lower city residents is also becoming more apparent of an issue. I'm also sorry to say this, but now that the lower city is becoming a more middle income area, it's likely the government wanted to avoid looking like they were literally poisoning people, because middle class residents complain more about dying early from lung cancer.
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  #65  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2021, 5:48 PM
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Originally Posted by craftbeerdad View Post
I don't have a problem with this, I'm saying it's selective (didn't Stelco only receive $50M in 2019?).
Stelco could upgrade their Lake Erie operation and ask for funding, but with the blast furnace shuttered and being dismantled here the same opportunity doesn't exist (though they're still making coke in Hamilton, aren't they? perhaps not for very long?)

Fewer voters in Nanticoke and its surrounding area though.
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  #66  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2021, 7:34 PM
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I mean, I think a big reason is that Hamilton is one of, if not the worst municipality in Canada for emissions. The health of lower city residents is also becoming more apparent of an issue. I'm also sorry to say this, but now that the lower city is becoming a more middle income area, it's likely the government wanted to avoid looking like they were literally poisoning people, because middle class residents complain more about dying early from lung cancer.
Fair point, I've always thought Hamilton was making good headway on emissions and health concerns but maybe that's a story I tell myself because I'd like to think there's Cootes, RBG, and the industrial lands have been decommissioned over time, but it could be a fairy tale.

Is there any studies with figures on emissions and the environment by Mac or similar body?

Whenever I look at the health impacts on the lower city, it's quite visible and I always wondered if the city knows the costs associated with pollution, emissions, and cancer causing agents that have caused health impairments (especially pre-90s).
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  #67  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2021, 3:12 AM
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This might be better suited for the Stelco forum (and is somewhat off-topic), but in researching Dofasco and Stelco I came across this link referring to an industrial waterfront plan that seems much larger in scope than anything else. I don’t recall ever seeing this discussed before, though I’m short on time so can’t really dig and check right now. I figured I’d just provide the link for the time being: https://www.hamilton.ca/sites/defaul...g2-minutes.pdf
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  #68  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2021, 2:37 PM
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How is this off topic? Seems pretty on-topic regarding emissions from ACMD and in general the industrial complex in the lower city. If we re-route this, you might want to check every thread and off-thread all the off-topic comments. This is nothing.
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  #69  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2021, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mikevbar1 View Post
This might be better suited for the Stelco forum (and is somewhat off-topic), but in researching Dofasco and Stelco I came across this link referring to an industrial waterfront plan that seems much larger in scope than anything else. I don’t recall ever seeing this discussed before, though I’m short on time so can’t really dig and check right now. I figured I’d just provide the link for the time being: https://www.hamilton.ca/sites/defaul...g2-minutes.pdf
Thanks! There are various threads this might fit. This is one of them.

The city doesn't do a good job letting people know this stuff is posted, so unless someone is very keen on it and goes mining through the city's oh-so-friendly website, it sits quietly without being seen. That's probably the case in most cities though.

I don't know if planning and ec-dev have an email list one can subscribe to that would let you know when something like this is posted. I'm on the one about GRIDS-2/MCR after submitting my comments on the urban boundary expansion options, but there really should be a "general development" mailing list for interested citizens. Maybe there is and I've just never seen it on the website.
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  #70  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2021, 9:51 PM
mikevbar1 mikevbar1 is offline
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Originally Posted by ScreamingViking View Post
Thanks! There are various threads this might fit. This is one of them.

The city doesn't do a good job letting people know this stuff is posted, so unless someone is very keen on it and goes mining through the city's oh-so-friendly website, it sits quietly without being seen. That's probably the case in most cities though.

I don't know if planning and ec-dev have an email list one can subscribe to that would let you know when something like this is posted. I'm on the one about GRIDS-2/MCR after submitting my comments on the urban boundary expansion options, but there really should be a "general development" mailing list for interested citizens. Maybe there is and I've just never seen it on the website.
I'd like to think there is at least some form of communication between the city, developers and the communities their decisions will affect. Unfortunately a development mailing list just doesn't seem like something cities are interested in paying for, especially Hamilton. That being said, the less the city shares with us the more we can be surprised by projects like this
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  #71  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2021, 8:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mikevbar1 View Post
I'd like to think there is at least some form of communication between the city, developers and the communities their decisions will affect. Unfortunately a development mailing list just doesn't seem like something cities are interested in paying for, especially Hamilton. That being said, the less the city shares with us the more we can be surprised by projects like this
Yeah, the cost/hassle involved would probably be too much for this burgh. And we can sift through council minutes and meeting materials at our leisure.

There are also counsellors who would fret about special interest groups and lobbyists who may become annoying should they get their prodding fingers on city reports and presentations. Why make it easier for the "activists"

But in an era of [supposedly] "open data" and "open government" I don't think it would be that much trouble to set up an automated email alerting people on a list that something was posted to the city website. We pay for that stuff.
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