Borders

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by Bootstrap Bill

Can you think of anything negative that would come as a result of an open border between the U.S. and Canada? One that would allow free movement of people and goods - like you see in Europe.

The economy on both sides is very similar. I don't see millions of Canadians rushing the border (or vice versa). I think it could work here.

Tons of drugs would flood into the U.S., and tons of guns would flood into Canada. An open border would only work if the two countries had almost exact laws.

[Bootstrap Bill]

Originally Posted by Mister F

To satisfy American concerns about security and terrorism, the two countries would have to harmonize security, immigration, foreign policy, taxation, drug policy, etc. Some of these things are approached very differently in each country. Since the United States has ten times the population of Canada, it would be the one calling the shots. It would essentially mean Canada giving up huge amounts of sovereignty to the United States. Totally not worth whatever economic benefits we might get. And those benefits would be insignificant anyway, IMO. Let's keep in mind that the main reason our economy didn't fall into recession as hard as the Americans is because our financial system is so different.

In short, North America is dominated by a single huge country. Europe isn't.

Could anything be done to make it easier for Canadians to live and/or work in the U.S. (or vice versa), without the need for a work visa or other type of permission from the government?

Why not expand the European Union to include North America as well? Of course, the name would have to be changed, but that's a minor issue. Each country would retain it's own identity, but this would allow anyone come and go and live or work wherever they want to. As easy as it is to move from state to state or province to province.

[betterthannothing]

Originally Posted by Trantor

maybe some truth, I am not sure. Portuguese has more vowel sounds, dont know if that makes it more difficult for spanish speakers.

the real pain to speak spanish is that at the same time we can understand some stuff and completely NOT understand the rest

like in this ad for a spanish course in Brazil
• Video Link

I'm not fluent in spanish but i can understand almost everything except for slangs....Spanish speakers do have more trouble understanding portuguese..

[vid]

Originally Posted by Bootstrap Bill

Could anything be done to make it easier for Canadians to live and/or work in the U.S. (or vice versa), without the need for a work visa or other type of permission from the government?

There is a card, I think it is called NEXUS, that lets you cross the border easily, and there are a good number of people who live in one country and work in the other (especially in the Niagara/Buffalo and Windsor/Detroit areas). It is possible, but there is probably a lot of paperwork involved or something. It isn't as common as it would be in Europe.

Originally Posted by Bootstrap Bill

Why not expand the European Union to include North America as well? Of course, the name would have to be changed, but that's a minor issue. Each country would retain it's own identity, but this would allow anyone come and go and live or work wherever they want to. As easy as it is to move from state to state or province to province.

Canada and the United States are too reluctant to give up any more of their sovereignty, I don't think it will happen. Quebec and France apparently have some sort of labour sharing agreement though. (Canadian provinces have bigger international responsibilities than American states, Ontario and Quebec even maintain diplomatic missions abroad.)

[Vidiot]

<======== California, USA ____________________________________________ Baja California, Mexico ========>





Love it.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Reverberation

The southern border of the US and Mexico (in San Diego):

Reminds me of Berlin c. 1985.

Fences to keep people in or out.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by emathias

Detroit and Windsor?

[mwadswor]

Originally Posted by Vidiot

<======== California, USA ____________________________________________ Baja California, Mexico ========>





Love it.

That's a great shot. It's interesting to see a spot on the border where the US is so agricultural (at least in the area captured by the picture) and Mexico is so urban. I think that's the reverse of most people's stereotype of that border.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Reminds me of Berlin c. 1985.

Fences to keep people in or out.

Though the ideological reason for building the Berlin Wall is different between the border fence between the US and Mexico.

[R@ptor]

Originally Posted by Bootstrap Bill

Could anything be done to make it easier for Canadians to live and/or work in the U.S. (or vice versa), without the need for a work visa or other type of permission from the government?

Why not expand the European Union to include North America as well?

Actually there are already talks between the EU and Canada to allow the free movement of people and goods between the two of them.

Canada will never join the EU, but 10 years from now it might be possible for Canadians to live and work in Europe without any restrictions and vice versa for Europeans in Canada.

[Bootstrap Bill]

Originally Posted by R@ptor

Actually there are already talks between the EU and Canada to allow the free movement of people and goods between the two of them.

Canada will never join the EU, but 10 years from now it might be possible for Canadians to live and work in Europe without any restrictions and vice versa for Europeans in Canada.

Is anything like this being considered for the US?

And what about currency? What would it take to fix the dollar (both U.S. and Canadian) to be worth exactly 1 Euro?

[Ayreonaut]

I don't think currency matters, the UK doesn't use the Euro.

[R@ptor]

Originally Posted by Bootstrap Bill

Is anything like this being considered for the US?

No and I don't see it being considered anytime soon. If the freedom of movement agreement between Canada and the EU goes ahead one day, I can see Australia and NZ join in as well, but the chances of the US being included are not very high.

The EU and Canada might be interested in such an agreement, but I can't see the Americans agreeing to it, given their hard stance on immigration and 'terrorism prevention' .

Originally Posted by Bootstrap Bill

And what about currency? What would it take to fix the dollar (both U.S. and Canadian) to be worth exactly 1 Euro?

A miracle

[Bootstrap Bill]

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut

I don't think currency matters, the UK doesn't use the Euro.

It makes life a little easier if you're paying with cash. No need to go to a currencty exchange every time you cross the border.

[Fusey]

Originally Posted by R@ptor

The EU and Canada might be interested in such an agreement, but I can't see the Americans agreeing to it, given their hard stance on immigration and 'terrorism prevention'.

In the US you have people who are paranoid and think that open borders with neighboring countries will lead to an invasion of Mexicans and a loss of sovereignty.

[Bootstrap Bill]

Originally Posted by R@ptor

The EU and Canada might be interested in such an agreement, but I can't see the Americans agreeing to it, given their hard stance on immigration and 'terrorism prevention' .

I don't think American's have much to worry about over the prospect of millions of Canadian terrorists rushing across the border. Besides, there are lots of places where you can walk across already. We don't have another Berlin wall separating the two countries.

[harls]

I grew up about 1/2 mile from the Canada US border.

The field of yellow is in the US.

[Bootstrap Bill]

Originally Posted by harls

I grew up about 1/2 mile from the Canada US border.

The field of yellow is in the US.

Exactly my point! Anybody who wanted to enter either country to do harm is free to do so right now. What harm could possibly come by opening up the border?

[vid]

With electronic money becoming more popular, we're getting near to a point where currency exchange will be unnecessary. Everyone will use debit cards and the conversions will be done at point of purchase by a computer. 100 years from now, hard money will be a thing of the past.

There are unmanned drones and infrared cameras keeping an eye on the border in many places, and I bet if one of those farmers saw someone sneaking through their farm to cross the border, he'd shoot them.

[mwadswor]

Originally Posted by vid

With electronic money becoming more popular, we're getting near to a point where currency exchange will be unnecessary. Everyone will use debit cards and the conversions will be done at point of purchase by a computer. 100 years from now, hard money will be a thing of the past.

Hard money will never be a thing of the past if for no reason other than the fact that all things electronic are incredibly traceable. Hard cash is relatively untraceable and there will always be a use for it.

That said, hard money is already a thing of the past for many people. I hardly ever cary any cash, and I don't think many people in my age group (young 20s) or younger carry cash very often. The only times I do go out of my way to carry cash are places where credit/debit cards aren't accepted or carry high fees, like sporting events or travelling in foreign countries. Just because conversion can be done at the point of sale does not mean it will be cheap (1% for Visa users adds up). Enough people will be willing to pay these charges that banks will continue to make money and will continue to charge fees for currency conversion, but there will also be enough cheapskates like me to keep hard currency around.

Finally, cash and currency are 2 very different concepts. Just because you don't carry physical dollars or euros or yen does not mean that they won't continue to exist electronically as dollars or euros or yen. If your checking account is in dollars and you buy something in pesos with a debit card, currency exchange is still happening, you just aren't seeing it or necessarily aware of it.

Having the same currency is convenient for individuals, but it is not always convenient for governments (which decide which currency to use). The world used to be on a de facto standard currency (gold). Different governments still had their own currencies, sure, but paper notes were all intended as mere representations of gold. Dollars were actually redeemable for gold in banks for a good part of the US's history. The US dollar was officially convertible into gold all the way up to 1971 (other countries followed the US's lead soon after). The problem with a universal currency... or any currency that is larger than the national boundaries... is that it hamstring's the national governments ability to use monetary policy as a tool. Most governments are too nationalistic to give up that tool.

The EU nations have surrendered large parts of their sovereignty, including monetary policy, which works for them. No matter how logical it may be for the US, we Americans are simply too obsessed with our own sovereignty and our own independance to ever voluntarily surrender that much power to a higher organization. At least not in any of our or any of our grandchildren's lifetimes or without an alien invasion to bring us all together.