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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2020, 5:12 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post

They'll be replaced by more dynamic upstarts that know where you plant your flag is just as important as how you run your company.

Sunoco won't be around in 25 years.
Sunoco has been run into the ground and is basically an irrelevant retail company at this point. A dramatic fall from the old boys club and the glory days of Sun Oil. Not a big loss. Crown Holdings is just not a city business, it never was. Lincoln Financial still has a huge presence in Center City - the HQ is where the CEO works and was moved literally to be near the CEO's house on the Main Line. Again, not a huge loss.
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2020, 9:07 AM
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2020, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
Sunoco has been run into the ground and is basically an irrelevant retail company at this point. A dramatic fall from the old boys club and the glory days of Sun Oil. Not a big loss. Crown Holdings is just not a city business, it never was. Lincoln Financial still has a huge presence in Center City - the HQ is where the CEO works and was moved literally to be near the CEO's house on the Main Line. Again, not a huge loss.
All well n good to write off companies that have left WHEN you have an equal or greater number coming in. But that's not happening either. Tiny start-ups and small satellite offices from companies already in the region are not offsetting these losses.
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2020, 10:26 PM
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Many of the other buildings in the area give a more specific reference to the Woodland Walk diagonal. While I think the angles and balconies of this design are attractive, I would have liked to see them used to continue that reference point to the diagonal - since we only have so many diagonals to celebrate. Missed opportunity to really highlight the continuation of this diagonal in the grid, IMHO. As it is, the point cuts into that path instead of highlighting it - although that point may "play well" with Drexel's Bossone Research Center across Market.
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2020, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MusicMan84 View Post
Many of the other buildings in the area give a more specific reference to the Woodland Walk diagonal. While I think the angles and balconies of this design are attractive, I would have liked to see them used to continue that reference point to the diagonal - since we only have so many diagonals to celebrate. Missed opportunity to really highlight the continuation of this diagonal in the grid, IMHO. As it is, the point cuts into that path instead of highlighting it - although that point may "play well" with Drexel's Bossone Research Center across Market.
Woodland never continued past Market. I see what you mean but I think it's fine ending it where it is.
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2020, 4:20 AM
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
All well n good to write off companies that have left WHEN you have an equal or greater number coming in. But that's not happening either. Tiny start-ups and small satellite offices from companies already in the region are not offsetting these losses.
I'm just going to point out that this is demonstrably false. Job growth in the city has been steady for the past decade. The Professional and Business services sector had grown by 75% from 2010 before the covid crash hit. Check the BLS data. The tiny start-ups and small satellite offices more than make up for the loss of a couple of already moribund companies.

https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.pa_philadelphia_co.htm

Total (non-farm) jobs


The Professional and Business services
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2020, 3:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TK2001 View Post
Thank you TK! Your renderings are slightly off on the length/depth of 3151 Market. 3151 Market will not span the entirety of the block from Market to JFK. See rendering below:



There will eventually be a highrise around 30 floors or so built behind 3151 Market fronting JFK Blvd.
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2020, 1:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
Woodland never continued past Market. I see what you mean but I think it's fine ending it where it is.
Yeah - that wasn't really my point. The earlier concepts (and these renderings) seem to suggest that the continuation of a diagonal/Woodland Walk is planned, whether or not Woodland ever went there before.

Indeed, even the new towers on JFK seem to give a nod to that direction.

Not a huge concern - just an observation. Withholding judgment until I can experience it in real life - the cantilever may really change the perception from a human scale.

Last edited by MusicMan84; Oct 9, 2020 at 1:17 AM. Reason: Added another thought
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2020, 12:14 PM
Justin7 Justin7 is offline
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^ The walk does seem to continue though, and the ceiling there is high enough (~26-30 feet?)that it should feel natural to walk under.
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2020, 7:21 PM
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
There will eventually be a highrise around 30 floors or so built behind 3151 Market fronting JFK Blvd.
On the north side of JFK? What's your statement based on?
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2020, 3:49 PM
wanderer34 wanderer34 is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
Any company leaving the city is unfortunate, and I'm the first to bash the city's tax code...but I also see this as a case of old vs new. These are old line traditional companies without a lot of growth prospects. They're also likely run by old men who still think in old ways. They're not concerned about recruiting the best and brightest young people because young people don't want to work for them. Mostly, they're just re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic and trying to pump up earnings any way they can.

They'll be replaced by more dynamic upstarts that know where you plant your flag is just as important as how you run your company.

Sunoco won't be around in 25 years.
I look at last decade as very rough for Philadelphia commerce as a whole. Never have I seen a city lose that many companies. Even during the Wall Street crash of 1987, many companies preferred to stay in NYC and even today, you don't hear of any company based in Chicago wanting to leave despite negative news about the city plus the everyday violence in that city. Heck, Pittsburgh still has more Fortune 500 companies than Phila at this moment.

I don't think it's really related to old vs new, but it's just that the business tax situation is awful over here plus the city and state for some strange reason doesn't know how to attract and retain companies, let alone people, from moving here. I still feel that the "Sixth Borough" designation that we've been hearing may be a reality and I wouldn't be surprised if NYC and Philadelphia combined into one huge CSA (which I'm against), but anything's possible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
Sunoco has been run into the ground and is basically an irrelevant retail company at this point. A dramatic fall from the old boys club and the glory days of Sun Oil. Not a big loss. Crown Holdings is just not a city business, it never was. Lincoln Financial still has a huge presence in Center City - the HQ is where the CEO works and was moved literally to be near the CEO's house on the Main Line. Again, not a huge loss.
I still think that it's nice the the city of Philadelphia can retain a good number of Fortune 500 companies here to help with the tax base. I'm not sure who's gonna be the next startup to be a Fortune 500 company but after losing so many bank HQs (PSFS, CoreStates, Santander), and seeing other companies getting acquired (Pepboys and Rohm & Haas), I'm not sure if Philadelphia can continue to be the corporate center it once was.
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  #32  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2020, 6:06 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
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Originally Posted by wanderer34 View Post
I look at last decade as very rough for Philadelphia commerce as a whole. Never have I seen a city lose that many companies. Even during the Wall Street crash of 1987, many companies preferred to stay in NYC and even today, you don't hear of any company based in Chicago wanting to leave despite negative news about the city plus the everyday violence in that city. Heck, Pittsburgh still has more Fortune 500 companies than Phila at this moment.

I don't think it's really related to old vs new, but it's just that the business tax situation is awful over here plus the city and state for some strange reason doesn't know how to attract and retain companies, let alone people, from moving here. I still feel that the "Sixth Borough" designation that we've been hearing may be a reality and I wouldn't be surprised if NYC and Philadelphia combined into one huge CSA (which I'm against), but anything's possible.

I still think that it's nice the the city of Philadelphia can retain a good number of Fortune 500 companies here to help with the tax base. I'm not sure who's gonna be the next startup to be a Fortune 500 company but after losing so many bank HQs (PSFS, CoreStates, Santander), and seeing other companies getting acquired (Pepboys and Rohm & Haas), I'm not sure if Philadelphia can continue to be the corporate center it once was.
2003 called and wants all of your bad Sixth Borough, Fortune 500, population ranking takes back. Seriously it’s 2020. Just posting Insoluble’s reply to McBane so hopefully you read it. I’m pretty sure neither one of you has set foot in Center City since the Reagan era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insoluble View Post
I'm just going to point out that this is demonstrably false. Job growth in the city has been steady for the past decade. The Professional and Business services sector had grown by 75% from 2010 before the covid crash hit. Chec k the BLS data. The tiny start-ups and small satellite offices more than make up for the loss of a couple of already moribund companies.

https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.pa_philadelphia_co.htm

Total (non-farm) jobs


The Professional and Business services
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  #33  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2020, 7:13 PM
allovertown allovertown is offline
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Originally Posted by londonee View Post
2003 called and wants all of your bad sixth borough, fortune 500, population ranking takes back. Seriously it’s 2020. Just posting insoluble’s reply to mcbane so hopefully you read it. I’m pretty sure neither one of you has set foot in center city since the reagan era.
+1
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  #34  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2020, 5:00 AM
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hammersklavier hammersklavier is offline
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
On the north side of JFK? What's your statement based on?
It isn't like there isn't a site plan or anything for us to check...
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Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
Spoiler alert: It isn't -- see site plan:


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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2020, 3:57 PM
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^^^^^^^
'30 story highrise facing JFK -----'
I was asking because I didn't think any proposed details had been released about 3051 JFK and theres also a unedified building/blue box between 3101 Market east and west buildings that I've never heard mentioned.
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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2020, 7:55 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by wanderer34 View Post
I look at last decade as very rough for Philadelphia commerce as a whole. Never have I seen a city lose that many companies. Even during the Wall Street crash of 1987, many companies preferred to stay in NYC and even today, you don't hear of any company based in Chicago wanting to leave despite negative news about the city plus the everyday violence in that city. Heck, Pittsburgh still has more Fortune 500 companies than Phila at this moment.

I don't think it's really related to old vs new, but it's just that the business tax situation is awful over here plus the city and state for some strange reason doesn't know how to attract and retain companies, let alone people, from moving here. I still feel that the "Sixth Borough" designation that we've been hearing may be a reality and I wouldn't be surprised if NYC and Philadelphia combined into one huge CSA (which I'm against), but anything's possible.

I still think that it's nice the the city of Philadelphia can retain a good number of Fortune 500 companies here to help with the tax base. I'm not sure who's gonna be the next startup to be a Fortune 500 company but after losing so many bank HQs (PSFS, CoreStates, Santander), and seeing other companies getting acquired (Pepboys and Rohm & Haas), I'm not sure if Philadelphia can continue to be the corporate center it once was.
What is the fascination with Fortune 500 companies?... Minneapolis has more Fortune 500s than Chicago, LA, San Fran and Philadelphia, does that make it more economically relevant?...

The fact is, Philadelphia (city and metro) remains one of the strongest and most diverse/relevant economies in the nation, with a very strong and growing presence in bio-tech/research, which is a major plus moving forward.

And while our suburbs have long been the base of job growth especially in white collar sectors, Philadelphia has shown good improvement in job growth, companies adding city satellite offices, record setting investment and start-up funding, etc.

Philadelphia's improvement moves at a slow pace, but pre-Covid, it was very noticeable. The biggest challenge at this point is leadership, which generally doesn't care to grow/market Philadelphia as a national and international place to do business. Most growth is largely left up to investment which largely stems from large companies, universities, hospitals, etc. in the city and region.

So yes, there are things I would like to change, but lets be realistic here... Philadelphia is not New York or London, but its certainly in the next tier down with Boston, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, etc. (plus, Philadelphia metro has a higher GDP per capita than many other comparable regions, which is important to note).

Your description of Philadelphia makes it sound like a hopeless, depressed town.

(I feel like I've seen your posts on City-Data, which are equally negative).
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2020, 8:10 PM
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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2020, 8:54 PM
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^^
If we could just get a significant slice of the digital economy, that would further help to diversify Philly's economy. Tech is the future and COVID has exponentially accelerated that. I look at places on the West Coast, Boston, Houston, Dallas, and DC and they have an established tech sector and many startups. Just wish companies would bring the tech jobs to Philly or we organically develop successful tech startups that will blossom into major leading tech companies. Maybe its all wishful thinking on my part.
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  #39  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2020, 9:22 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
^^
If we could just get a significant slice of the digital economy, that would further help to diversify Philly's economy. Tech is the future and COVID has exponentially accelerated that. I look at places on the West Coast, Boston, Houston, Dallas, and DC and they have an established tech sector and many startups. Just wish companies would bring the tech jobs to Philly or we organically develop successful tech startups that will blossom into major leading tech companies. Maybe its all wishful thinking on my part.
While it's true we don't have any of the big players here (Amazon, Facebook, Google), there are some successful firms here. Think places like Sidecar, Linode, Stitch, Healthverity, etc. A lot of the offices in and around 13th Street house tech/digital companies.
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  #40  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2020, 9:35 PM
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Nice. Was also looking to see if there were any recently new publicly traded tech companies headquartered in Philly and their valuation above $1 billion with a workforce size of 500+ employees. Nothing come to my mind so I asked.
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