Panhandlers

[Blurr]

I think we live in a country (and especially city) where you are able to eat and live with shelter if you choose so. You are given a shelter allowance through multiple programs which is high enough to pay rent in Hamilton. In addition, there are food banks, soup kitchens,and surplus $ from social assistance around where you are able to have a meal.

I do not think pan handling is necessary. Basic necessites of life of shelter food and cloths are provided to those willing.

I agree with the point that giving money will often feed drug habits. I never give money to panhandlers, but I do give money to a food bank. Why give money to somewhere that you do not know where it is going?

A by-law is a good idea. We should try to make the core more business oriented. Drugs and aggressive panhandlers is anti-business and unnecessary in this country.

[SteelTown]

You can't solicitate in front of buildings, or parks after 11pm and you definitely can't solicitate at shopping malls. I've once got booted from taking pictures of a building. Why can't our city have the powers to do the same?

[realcity]

"If you chose to" exactly... I believe we also live in a country with the freedom of choice too.

[bigguy1231]

It takes all kinds of people to make up a city. Pan handlers are just one of those groups. To blame them for the plight of downtown is just a smokescreen to mask the fact that city council just doesn't know what to do.

The panhandlers in downtown Hamilton are few and far between compared to other cities I've been to. Just go to Toronto where you trip over them walking down the street.

We have always had them downtown and always will. I remember a guy that used to park himself in front of what was then Woolworths downtown. He was legless and blind. He had the tin cup beside him and played his harmonica. He was there every day for years. There were panhandlers there 30 years ago, when the downtown was thriving, and they will still be there 30 years from now. They are neither a symptom of any particular problem in the downtown or a cause of those problems. They are a fact of life in the downtown. Lets deal with the real problems.

[adam]

^^ Bigguy is right on with his last post.. every major urban centre in the world has panhandlers. We can ban them from malls and big box store parking lots, but streets and sidewalks are public areas.

[highwater]

What bigguy said.

I take my kids downtown at least once or twice a month. The first time my kids came face to face with the reality of poverty and homelessness was when I took them to the symphony in Toronto and we had to walk by all the people sleeping on grates in front of Metro Hall and Roy Thompson. Sure we have our share of panhandlers, but nothing like the percentage of people sleeping rough like they do in Toronto.

Hamiltonians who gripe about the panhandlers downtown don't understand the realities of cities. They think our downtown should be some kind of urban theme park: squeaky clean and devoid of discomfiting sights like people who are less fortunate than themselves, yet they think nothing of going to Toronto or New York for entertainment. I don't understand the double standard.

[SteelTown]

I agree panhandling isn't one of the big issues but it's definitely an issue, especially if we're going to invite the whole of Americas to our city in 2015.

I just think the city should have one piece of the tools needed to improve the image of downtown Hamilton. We have cameras and police officers on patrol but what's the point if we don't have any piece of legislation or bylaws if we can't do something about the panhandling issue.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by adam

We can ban them from malls and big box store parking lots, but streets and sidewalks are public areas.

We shouldn't prohibit mobile signs, flashy LED lights, hot dog vendors, prostitution, gambling and urinating on our streets since it's a public area?

[crhayes]

I have spent a significant amount of time in Gore Park and surrounding areas throughout the last couple of years and I don't see panhandling as a huge issue here. There are really not that many bums.

Have you ever seen East Hastings in Vancouver? Watch this video - it's only a snippet of what happens down there. It's called "cracktown" and it's basically the size of our entire downtown core... probably 10 times worse than Barton Street with thousands of bums. Yet somehow Vancouver still managed to win the Olympic games.

Of course, they are freaking out about East Hastings and trying to clean it up for the games, but it's futile.

Moving panhandlers out of downtown may improve its image but it does not solve the problem; they will move to other higher traffic areas in the city where they "degrade" the image, thus causing a cyclic problem.

[adam]

I am still waiting to encounter my first panhandler in downtown Hamilton after living here for several years. However, I used to spend weekends in Toronto and encountered many panhandlers there, pretty much a new one every week. Some people just simply aren't suited to an urban environment, maybe?

[Blurr]

Originally Posted by realcity

"If you chose to" exactly... I believe we also live in a country with the freedom of choice too.

The only reason to panhandle is to buy drugs or alcohol. In this country, the basic human needs of shelter, food and cloths are provided no matter what. Even if you choose not to work or contribute to society. If you support panhandlers, you are supporting criminals and addictions. I hope you realize this when you are giving your $5 away realcity

It takes all kinds of people to make up a city. Pan handlers are just one of those groups. To blame them for the plight of downtown is just a smokescreen to mask the fact that city council just doesn't know what to do.

Yes there are many poor policy decisions downtown, but this policy change will help. One big part missing downtown are working class people. Working class people are telling us that they want the panhandling to stop. They are not banning the panhandlers from being there they just can't panhandle others. If council wants to know how to get businesses and working class people in the area of Gore Park, listening and implementing their concerns will improve the business climate and the image.

We can ban them from malls and big box store parking lots, but streets and sidewalks are public areas.

Why not? Why not ban panhandling in certain areas out of common respect of others. Kind of like wearing cloths, you have to hold society to a certain standard. There is no life threatening reason to panhandle in this country, so there is really no excuse to do it or to give money to those people.

I take my kids downtown at least once or twice a month. The first time my kids came face to face with the reality of poverty and homelessness was when I took them to the symphony in Toronto and we had to walk by all the people sleeping on grates in front of Metro Hall and Roy Thompson. Sure we have our share of panhandlers, but nothing like the percentage of people sleeping rough like they do in Toronto.

Hamiltonians who gripe about the panhandlers downtown don't understand the realities of cities. They think our downtown should be some kind of urban theme park: squeaky clean and devoid of discomfiting sights like people who are less fortunate than themselves, yet they think nothing of going to Toronto or New York for entertainment. I don't understand the double standard.

No, you don't understand highwater. I want my city to be a success, kind of like how Toronto and New York already are. They have ratios of common working people and misfits that allow some wonderful areas downtown. Hamilton does not have this luxury of a central business district(s). There was a time when Hamilton downtown was a place of civic pride and glorified monuments where business was conducted. It was a place where people looked forward to go to. It was called Gore Park, and it was incredibly well designed for these purposes. Unfortunately in the 21st century, it also works well for panhandlers. Businesses are calling for this change, but you seem to know better than them.

Banning pan-handling in the Gore Park area will improve business moral and performance in the area.

How about some policy changes that actually help businesses in this city?

[Blurr]

Originally Posted by adam

I am still waiting to encounter my first panhandler in downtown Hamilton after living here for several years. However, I used to spend weekends in Toronto and encountered many panhandlers there, pretty much a new one every week. Some people just simply aren't suited to an urban environment, maybe?

Whatever Adam, Gore Park is dumpy and an uncomfortable and unesseccary place to stay.

a good Urban environment does not = Gore Park.

Travel, go to other cities in the world and see what you are comparing to, forget Toronto.

[emge]

My sister lives near East Hastings. Fun stuff.

Toronto has a concentration of panhandlers near places like the Rogers Centre and Roy Thompson Hall because they know that's where they can get money off tourists. A few blocks away you won't see a single one because they're not "tourist" streets.

I've gotten to know a lot of homeless people there... including some who used to hang out by City Hall before that area was "cleaned up." I also used to go to church at King/University (it met in St. Andrews right across from Roy Thompson) and got to know a couple of the panhandlers outside - their names, stories. One was a husband/wife couple. They had an apartment and were on welfare- they were in a messed up situation of course, but they had shelter and food. Unfortunately, they also had a drug addiction and hepatitis to deal with. But you don't give money... if anything, you give food. And even then, it's amazing how when you talk with somebody for an hour or two, you'll see three or four well-meaning groups walk by, literally toss a sandwich down, and leave without saying a word. These people don't need your food, and the money won't help them.

And then there's the guy who gets on my bus in the morning and heads downtown to panhandle... great. Just great.

I'm not saying to ban panhandlers, but the solution isn't "oh, these poor people, let's give them $5 and walk away" because that's enabling addictions and doing nothing in the long-term.

The solutions aren't easy -- it's a long and hard road of recovery or integration into society. Stuff like THIS (idea of a guy I know from a few years back) needs to be funded - permanent solutions and community for permanent needs, not just a bed or a sandwich.

[SteelTown]

I dunno why but it seems like I get harassed by panhandlers once a week. Most of the time I wear a shirt and tie so I guess panhandlers will assume I have money to flash around. I can now completely understand why business people avoid the Gore Park area.

Once a week I park near the McMaster downtown campus across from YMCA. Most of the time when I walk to my car I'll get a panhandler begging for money, one time the guy followed me to my car, scared me a bit (walked quickly and got in my car and locked the doors immediately). I think they come from the GO Station, they probably walk towards Gore Park once everyone stepped out of the GO Train.

[adam]

If someone is trying to sell you something on the street and you aren't interested, just firmly tell them that you are not interested and keep walking at the same pace you were before. This is something I learned in my 20's traveling to different countries in Europe. I lived in cities in 3 different countries for a total of 1 year. It seems that the bigger the city, the more panhandling occurs. Of course, you also get more businesses, more pedestrians, more congestion, more public events, more everything else too. Trust me, Hamilton's panhandling is mild, and this makes sense given the downtown core is barely 3kmX3km.

[adam]

Just to add to the last post, I lived in Kingston for a year and found panhandling on Princess St. to be just as bad if not worse than Gore Park.

[Berklon]

From time to time I see panhandlers in front of the Hunter GO station. Today someone asked if I had spare change for coffee, asked someone else and then asked me again 10 seconds later thinking I was a different person.

Usually it's some bullshit story about having to get home to (insert city name here) and not having enough money for a bus/train ticket. Apparently some of them have been trying for a long time since I see the same people with the same story weeks later.

I still deal with more panhandlers, bums, junkies and freaks in my 10 minute walk to the office from Union Station in Toronto every day than I do in a month in Hamilton.

[realcity]

Who cares what their story is? They are asking for money... that's a pretty bad sitch regardless. That's someone's son/daughter maybe even father/mother.... give them money... that's the best direct charity contribution you can make... no "administration fees".

God be with you... if you ever end up in that situation. .... Allah calls it "giving Alms" one of the 7 pillars of Islam... and I'm sure Jesus says something about the poor too.... the poor shall inherit ... ah whatever....

[emge]

My general belief is that handouts outside of relationship rarely solve anything.
Some of my friends have been homeless - some as children, some as adults. Some have parents that are still homeless.

However, I think that older cultures without a social safety net had a bit of a different definition of "alms" and "beggar" than we do.

I'm not saying any religious exhortations to give to someone who asks of you don't still apply, but personally I think we're to use our brains about it.

I know people with real needs, but I also know people who couldn't afford groceries, had people give them $20, and blew it on fake nails and coffee... and then did it again with a different person. How many of the panhandlers near Jackson do I see heading right into the LCBO with the money they're given, or to meet their dealer? I'm not a fan of just enabling that crap either.

Not that life hasn't been tough and they aren't coping as best they can, but I'm not going to enable that particular coping mechanism... I'd rather support initiatives that address the root issues, and will continue to do so.

That's my wine tonight and my own studies at Mac talking... combined with a general cynicism and knowing people who have made bad choices.. some stayed in, some got out. Some had kids who are now teenagers I work with.

[SteelTown]

From the new Police Chief.....

De Caire said he will "focus on crimes of street disorder" -- drugs, alcohol, problem bars and prostitution -- but stressed there will be a thorough review of all crime issues with senior officers.

"Right now we're going to look at what the issues are and I believe that drugs are a problem in many neighbourhoods, but I need to understand what the complexity of the problem is here," De Caire said.

He said some street issues relate to employment, health or economic concerns, and police need to partner with the agencies that have the resources and mandate to deal with those issues.

"I'll work with the command staff and I'll work with our officers who are currently working on those problems and we'll see how we can enhance our enforcement but also how we can reach out to other agencies ... to get referrals, to get people into housing, to get people off the streets.