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  #121  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2020, 11:16 PM
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funny you mention that as the nearby artisanal olive oil shoppe moved to a much less prominent (i.e., very low rent) location. Dewootable. Makes me wonder about that shopping mall crisis in Bari.
I'm sure that Covid hasn't helped the retail hierarchy of Bari. A former woot worthy place has probably lost its woot.
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  #122  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 12:26 AM
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My closest cupcake emporium has recently closed I gather it wasn't high on the locals places to go during lockdown.
These places popped up quickly around here during the great cupcake boom of the early 2010's. There were also cupcake reality TV shows that drove the mania.
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  #123  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 4:38 PM
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Great resource on the history and character of the Ville-Marie Expressway (A-720) which contains Canada's only underground expressway under the city centre, and the only underground interchange in the country. http://www.montrealroads.com/roads/A-720/


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  #124  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 4:44 PM
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underground sections of the new REM (under construction). Can I get a "Woot Woot!?"

rem.info
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  #125  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 4:45 PM
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Mount Royal Tunnel, 103 years old. Includes expansion plans and future stations.
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  #126  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 4:50 PM
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  #127  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 9:53 PM
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I HATE underground cities. They are dark, suck the life out of the streets, and you feel like a mole.

If you have to get out of the elements I FAR prefer how Calgary has done it with it's fantastic Plus15/30 system. When traversing it you are above street level and get to see clear skies and the building sections aren't near as dim and depressing. It is also far easier to negotiate as crossing the street via a bridge helps one to orient themselves. In underground cities, you are never quite sure which building you are under unlike in Calgary where you always know exactly where you are.
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  #128  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 10:50 PM
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I agree with that. I love the idea of the Toronto and Montreal underground cities cause it seems so future-urban, but in practice I have found the PATH relatively difficult to navigate, even having lived there, and being pretty good at reading maps. The +15 is just really straightforward, the natural light and easy wayfinding are good extras.
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  #129  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 11:05 PM
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The RESO only exists because of the Metro system. All underground.
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  #130  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 3:01 AM
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Montreal's streets (pre covid) are as vibrant as anytime since the early 1960s, despite the underground city. I loved it as a university student, where I could leave my office on the tenth floor of the GM building, take a private elevator down to Guy Metro, and have access to much of the city without having to put on a coat in minus 25C weather.
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  #131  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 5:12 AM
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The worlds longest? I always thought that title was a bit of a stretch. It's not all connected unless you use the METRO. If Toronto included the sections up at Yonge and Bloor as part of the P.A.T.H network it would be no different. It's not included because to be part of the P.A.T.H system you must be able to access it all on foot.

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Last edited by TorontoDrew; Apr 7, 2021 at 5:27 AM.
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  #132  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 5:24 AM
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I agree with that. I love the idea of the Toronto and Montreal underground cities cause it seems so future-urban, but in practice I have found the PATH relatively difficult to navigate, even having lived there, and being pretty good at reading maps. The +15 is just really straightforward, the natural light and easy wayfinding are good extras.
I think unless you use it daily it can be confusing. I usually amaze my friends when I navigate us from one end to the other avoiding harsh winter weather outside. I don't think The P.A.T.H network takes much away from street life because it's primarily in the CBD where the majority of people are 9-5 office workers. Also the already too narrow sidewalks in the area couldn't handle all of the office workers during rush hour. One of the most recent connections at Aura is horrible and I don't think it gets used much at all. that section of Yonge is as busy if not busier now then before it opened.

I think things like the +15 , the RESO, and the P.A.T.H are great assets in cities that experience harsh winter weather.
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  #133  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 7:03 AM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Great resource on the history and character of the Ville-Marie Expressway (A-720) which contains Canada's only underground expressway under the city centre, and the only underground interchange in the country. http://www.montrealroads.com/roads/A-720/


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i thought edmonton had an underground highway at one point
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  #134  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 2:58 PM
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Strangely this is the first time I have heard of this ambitious, albeit unlikely, plan for Toronto (2017): https://dailyhive.com/toronto/toront...-proposal-2017



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  #135  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 4:21 PM
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i thought edmonton had an underground highway at one point
They just have the one underground stretch of 97 Avenue under the Legislature Grounds, about 210 meters long. It connects traffic on 97 to 109 Street and the High Level Bridge.
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  #136  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 8:58 PM
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Strangely this is the first time I have heard of this ambitious, albeit unlikely, plan for Toronto (2017): https://dailyhive.com/toronto/toront...-proposal-2017




That seems like a huge waste of cash. Better off investing that in subways and more transit.
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  #137  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 9:46 PM
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Montreal's streets (pre covid) are as vibrant as anytime since the early 1960s, despite the underground city. I loved it as a university student, where I could leave my office on the tenth floor of the GM building, take a private elevator down to Guy Metro, and have access to much of the city without having to put on a coat in minus 25C weather.
But they are so damn depressing.

Ya, you can do all your shopping but you still feel like a mole running a maze. They may also be well lit but, unlike Calgary's system, you never see actual sun light. Underground systems are like being in a parking garage with restaurants attached.

I appreciate that Montreal & Toronto built underground due to having Metro/subway and Calgary went above ground due to having at-grade LRT and a very high water table but that doesn't change the fact that the Calgary system is far more pleasant and vastly easier to negotiate and orient oneself.
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  #138  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 10:00 PM
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I hate malls but Montreal manages to elevate alot of the RESO into something interesting, stylish, impressive, airy, and attractive. Not all of it is nice but I have confidence that they will fix those bits.

PATH in Toronto is abysmal by comparison. In Toronto all they did was slap up miles of glass and marble and called it a day. It's mind numbing and soul destroying. Maybe one day PATH can be re-designed into a beautiful interior space but it's got a VERY long way to go before it's an attractive place. I don't have much faith that it will improve because they don't even think there's anything wrong with it.

They could do soooo much with PATH. Art installations, fountains, play with light, vertical tunnels to the surface, wider hallways, higher ceilings, greenery, sculptures, galleries, use of different materials, etc. but all they do is construct mils of boring sterile hallways lined with glass retail fronts. They have no clue about design.
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Last edited by isaidso; Apr 7, 2021 at 10:12 PM.
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  #139  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 10:18 PM
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But they are so damn depressing.

Ya, you can do all your shopping but you still feel like a mole running a maze. They may also be well lit but, unlike Calgary's system, you never see actual sun light. Underground systems are like being in a parking garage with restaurants attached.
They can be excruciatingly depressing places but a lot can be accomplished with good design. I'm very familiar with both RESO and PATH. 99% of PATH makes you want to slit your wrists but bits of RESO show how good design can turn an underground space into something spectacular.

If you look at gorgeous interior spaces around the world there's no reason why an underground city can't resemble those places. There are 1000s of beautiful building interiors that have no windows. Why can't each 50m section resemble a luxury hotel lobby, a gallery space, a cathedral, be inspired by Frank Lloyd Wright, or open up into an atrium? The problem is that many of the people building underground cities don't know what they're doing. If all you're going to install is a standard mall corridor then you're going to end up with an astonishingly soul destroying space. It doesn't have to be that way.

I could have picked a 1000 images but this simple corridor alone shows what can be done to make a place engaging. Make the corridor 30 feet wide, the ceiling higher. Heavy use of wood and pattern on one wall, art installations on the other. Change the floor out to something less stark. Already it's 100 times better than what exists in PATH.


https://i.pinimg.com/474x/1f/7c/83/1...5d239b0884.jpg


Here are 2 more interiors. Get rid of the windows and they would still be great spaces. Yes it's expensive but nice things cost money. Why wouldn't we spend money on the places in which we live? It doesn't need to all be modern either.




https://in.pinterest.com/pin/444589794459328817/
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Last edited by isaidso; Apr 7, 2021 at 11:01 PM.
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  #140  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2021, 5:24 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I hate malls but Montreal manages to elevate alot of the RESO into something interesting, stylish, impressive, airy, and attractive. Not all of it is nice but I have confidence that they will fix those bits.

PATH in Toronto is abysmal by comparison. In Toronto all they did was slap up miles of glass and marble and called it a day. It's mind numbing and soul destroying. Maybe one day PATH can be re-designed into a beautiful interior space but it's got a VERY long way to go before it's an attractive place. I don't have much faith that it will improve because they don't even think there's anything wrong with it.

They could do soooo much with PATH. Art installations, fountains, play with light, vertical tunnels to the surface, wider hallways, higher ceilings, greenery, sculptures, galleries, use of different materials, etc. but all they do is construct mils of boring sterile hallways lined with glass retail fronts. They have no clue about design.

Agreed. Parts of the RESO are utilitarian and/or awful, but there are many gems along the way, such as the curvy corridor with bricks, another upward-sloping corridor with bricks, but most of all, the eclecticism and the apparent lack of uniformity between the different sections. A few exceptions aside (e.g.,, brick and mortar walkups in Montreal, brownstones in Brooklyn, Hausmannian Paris), monotonous uniformity is one key ingredient in soul-suckingness. Whether above or below ground, cities are just more interesting when there is a mixture of styling and scale.

RESO:





















https://montrealinpictures.com/
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Last edited by MolsonExport; Apr 8, 2021 at 5:41 PM.
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