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  #30521  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2015, 5:19 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by PKDickman View Post
Those are the highs, which usually occur in the daytime. Not at midnight.

Lows, respectively are 28 and 19.

Those are important degrees.
To put it into perspective, below 20 road crews will expect to use 3 times as much salt and have it take twice as long to work.

If you think a hip flask of Rye and some patio heaters will do the trick, then I predict an outbreak of frost bitten toes.
If you actually read what I said, you'd realize I said it was noticeable. I never once mentioned that it is just as cold in NYC. However, what I'm responding to is this notion that it's "much much" colder in Chicago in the wintertime, which it isn't. And yes, I spent almost the entire last winter in NYC as well as many other years being there for more extended periods of time. It's still cold and it's not "Much much colder" in Chicago. It's a noticeable difference on average, but it's still cold in both places. No matter how you slice it, if your daily mean temperature is something like 35, it's still cold.

If you really expect to be in NYC during the wintertime and not be cold at all, then you don't know NYC during that time of the year very well. There's still tons of people freezing their asses off in NYC during New Year's Eve when the temps during the night are routinely below 30 degrees and depending on where you are, you will have a wind chill for sure. There have been a few times where it was a lot warmer during NYE there, but it's usually, at night, below freezing temps in the city. Even if it's 7-10 degrees warmer there, it's still cold and with all the tourists there from warmer weather climates, it might as well be the same thing to them. They go there for the massive celebration that's seen all around the world, not because of the weather.
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  #30522  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2015, 6:26 PM
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SolarWind SolarWind is offline
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Public Art in Millennium Park

September 16, 2015



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  #30523  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2015, 7:29 PM
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Are those famous rocks?
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  #30524  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2015, 8:25 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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  #30525  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2015, 8:46 PM
Jim in Chicago Jim in Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by wierdaaron View Post
Are those famous rocks?
They remind me of the year when the annual UIC art department's annual outdoor sculpture student exhibition coincided with a fair number of major construction projects. You couldn't really tell the difference between the art and the random piles of construction debris.
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  #30526  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2015, 9:22 PM
emathias emathias is offline
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Are those famous rocks?
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Originally Posted by Jim in Chicago View Post
They remind me of the year when the annual UIC art department's annual outdoor sculpture student exhibition coincided with a fair number of major construction projects. You couldn't really tell the difference between the art and the random piles of construction debris.
I like contemporary art, but, really, that "art" seems like a poor choice for even temporary public art in Chicago.
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  #30527  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2015, 9:23 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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4 story, 27 unit building was issued a building permit on Keeler near Irving Park Road right near the Blue Line stop.

I think this is part of the overall picture, which is retail just near it being built:
http://cwchicagoretail.com/wp-conten...K_brochure.pdf
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  #30528  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2015, 11:03 PM
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^ LOL yeah that list is bogus. Just in the US alone on average SF, NYC, Boston, Honolulu, and DC are more expensive, and possibly Miami and San Diego. Seattle is about the same. No mention of Singapore on there either which is in the top 3 or 5 most expensive in the world. Anybody who knows Tokyo knows it's definitely more expensive than Chicago.
We have the highest sales tax in the nation. Our property taxes are also extremely high too. Gas here exceeds the national average by over a dollar. And the cost of food (both at the store or at restaurants) here is also much more expensive than than most cities throughout the nation, prices at restaurants here are just crazy at times (and I'm not even talking about those 4 and 5 stars nouveau-rich places).

Living here is very expensive at times. The only thing "cheap" is our bars and alcohol. Rent here is hardly "cheap"... reasonable, sure. Property is fairly reasonable too, which is what separates us from San Francisco, New York, and Boston. But there is nothing cheap about the cost of living in Chicago.
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  #30529  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2015, 11:21 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
We have the highest sales tax in the nation. Our property taxes are also extremely high too. Gas here exceeds the national average by over a dollar. And the cost of food (both at the store or at restaurants) here is also much more expensive than than most cities throughout the nation, prices at restaurants here are just crazy at times (and I'm not even talking about those 4 and 5 stars nouveau-rich places).

Living here is very expensive at times. The only thing "cheap" is our bars and alcohol. Rent here is hardly "cheap"... reasonable, sure. Property is fairly reasonable too, which is what separates us from San Francisco, New York, and Boston. But there is nothing cheap about the cost of living in Chicago.
Sales tax hardly accounts for a massive change in anything amongst the average person. If you were to spend $3000 per year in taxable goods in two different cities, but one of the cities had a sales tax 5% more than the other, the difference you'd pay per year in sales tax in the higher taxed city is just $150. And while that's not nothing, it's not a ton of money. It accounts to a grand total of $12.50 per month, which is equivalent to about 2 sodas from a vending machine consumed per week.


Now let's take the more important tax, which is income tax.
For a minute, pretend you spend $3000 per year ($250 per month) more on your property taxes in one location versus another. Now pretend that in both locations, you make the same amount of money and it's $80,000 per year. One location has a 3.75% income tax while the other has an 8% income tax. The income tax you pay in the 3.75% location is $3000 per year while the income tax you pay in the 8% location is $6400 per year. Combine these together, and even though you're paying $250/month more in property tax in one location, combined with the income tax, you're still saving $400/year by being in the other place with the higher property tax but lower income tax. Even if you take the example above with the sales tax and add that onto here, you'd still be coming out $250/year ahead in the place with a much higher sales and property tax, but a much lower income tax.

Most people react very strongly to one tax without calculating the entire picture. Often times they are really not saving as much money as they think and sometimes they are even losing money in one place versus the other because they took one or two taxes to mean everything. In the end, income tax is the most important thing and in the realm of things, Illinois' rate isn't that bad compared to many other states. If you want to talk about gas, then that's another story in which people don't even look at the whole picture. So again, pretend you pay $1000 per month in Chicago for a place versus $700 per month in a place like Atlanta. Chicago is one of the easiest cities in the country to live without a car in. Add in $100/month for public transit and $50/month for cabs/ubers and your combined transportation + housing costs would be about $1150 per month. Now as far as Atlanta goes, you're going to need a car. If you spent $200/month on gas and $50/month on insurance, you would be up to $950/month counting housing. If you didn't even own your car, you could easily be paying at least $200/month if not up to $350/month. In this case, even on the bottom end, you're now paying the same amount of money to live in Atlanta as Chicago even though your rent was $300/month less in Atlanta.


I don't think anybody is saying Chicago is cheap. It's not CHEAP (though it can be if you know what you're doing). But to say it's top 10 in the world is nowhere even close to reality. I've been to Singapore a few times - there's no way any second of the year that Singapore, even if you don't include property tax/values in the fray, is cheaper than Chicago.
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Last edited by marothisu; Sep 18, 2015 at 11:33 PM.
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  #30530  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2015, 11:37 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
We have the highest sales tax in the nation. Our property taxes are also extremely high too. Gas here exceeds the national average by over a dollar. And the cost of food (both at the store or at restaurants) here is also much more expensive than than most cities throughout the nation, prices at restaurants here are just crazy at times (and I'm not even talking about those 4 and 5 stars nouveau-rich places).

Living here is very expensive at times. The only thing "cheap" is our bars and alcohol. Rent here is hardly "cheap"... reasonable, sure. Property is fairly reasonable too, which is what separates us from San Francisco, New York, and Boston. But there is nothing cheap about the cost of living in Chicago.
Given the proportion of income that goes to rent or a mortgage it's an enormously important factor. I'm paying more than twice the sq foot cost in rent in SF than I would be in the best new buildings in Chicago that make the place I live in here look like public housing.

Going out to eat in Chicago costs more than doing so in Rockford or Joliet. More than Boston/SF/NYC/LA? Nah…even for fast food. I've been in SF so long my brain took a good 20 seconds to mentally process the pricing at UB Dogs as real and not a mistake.
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  #30531  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 12:05 AM
Ryanrule Ryanrule is offline
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Given the proportion of income that goes to rent or a mortgage it's an enormously important factor. I'm paying more than twice the sq foot cost in rent in SF than I would be in the best new buildings in Chicago that make the place I live in here look like public housing.

Going out to eat in Chicago costs more than doing so in Rockford or Joliet. More than Boston/SF/NYC/LA? Nah…even for fast food. I've been in SF so long my brain took a good 20 seconds to mentally process the pricing at UB Dogs as real and not a mistake.
bullshit.
to ALL of it.
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  #30532  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 12:28 AM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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bullshit.
to ALL of it.
You're right…I forgot to subtract parking and pet rent. It's only about 75% more per sq ft….in a new building with basically zero amenities.
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  #30533  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 1:03 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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You're right…I forgot to subtract parking and pet rent. It's only about 75% more per sq ft….in a new building with basically zero amenities.
The prices in SF are insane and I know everything you say is true. A few of my friends bought a house awhile ago before everything was extremely expensive, so they're lucky, but we always talk about how insane it is there. They've told me about many of their friends with average apartments in SF with basically zero amenities other than the apartment who are paying way way way too much. Same story in parts of Manhattan. When I show them some stuff in downtown Chicago, they're floored about not only the price and how nice some of these places are, but also at the amenities you get with the price of rent.

They've told me numerous times that they'd move to Chicago if it weren't for the fact that they already owned a property and the value has increased a TON since they bought it, and are paying nothing to live there as the mortgage is paid off. They don't like NYC either (one of the guys grew up close to it), so Chicago to them is good interestingly enough to move to if not tied down in SF already.
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  #30534  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 1:54 AM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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The prices in SF are insane and I know everything you say is true. A few of my friends bought a house awhile ago before everything was extremely expensive, so they're lucky, but we always talk about how insane it is there. They've told me about many of their friends with average apartments in SF with basically zero amenities other than the apartment who are paying way way way too much. Same story in parts of Manhattan. When I show them some stuff in downtown Chicago, they're floored about not only the price and how nice some of these places are, but also at the amenities you get with the price of rent.

They've told me numerous times that they'd move to Chicago if it weren't for the fact that they already owned a property and the value has increased a TON since they bought it, and are paying nothing to live there as the mortgage is paid off. They don't like NYC either (one of the guys grew up close to it), so Chicago to them is good interestingly enough to move to if not tied down in SF already.
Hence why I'll be returning in the next couple years. Hopefully condo development in Chicago starts getting a move on again since I don't want to rent anymore. Even still the resale market is sooo much better than here. I won't be competing with all cash offers on every single property for at list or above.
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  #30535  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 2:19 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Hence why I'll be returning in the next couple years. Hopefully condo development in Chicago starts getting a move on again since I don't want to rent anymore. Even still the resale market is sooo much better than here. I won't be competing with all cash offers on every single property for at list or above.
That's a big problem in SF. People with a lot of money will vastly outbid others for a normal place. That's happening in San Diego as well. I have a co-worker who moved there from Chicago (but he lived in San Diego before Chicago). Everytime he bids on a place, someone else comes in and outbids him by like $20K, cash just because they want the place right then. He's had it happen on so many occasions he's considering coming back to Chicago. Unfortunately for him, he moved to the city just in time for the worst winter on record (2013-14) and can't believe it wasn't a normal winter.
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  #30536  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 5:35 AM
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Housing prices are relatively low here, IF you compare us to SF and NYC all the time. But is it cheap? No way. Maybe it's because I live in Ukrainian Village but I just can't believe what people are willing to pay here and still call it cheap. Cost of living is way more than housing alone people. Taxes and basic prices on everything like gas, food, utilities are all expensive here. Chicagoans have this weird thing where we buy into what our coastal friends think of us. "It's so cheap there!" Nope, it's just that housing is cheaper. Everything else is just as expensive . Some things are less and others more. Overall it's not that different except for housing.
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  #30537  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 2:33 PM
UrbanLibertine UrbanLibertine is offline
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Demolition permits issued for all the Rush Hospital buildings between Congress and Harrison facing Wood. Beautiful old buildings. Bummer.
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  #30538  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 3:31 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Last edited by marothisu; Sep 19, 2015 at 3:48 PM.
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  #30539  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 3:44 PM
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Demolition permits issued for all the Rush Hospital buildings between Congress and Harrison facing Wood. Beautiful old buildings. Bummer.
That is a bummer. The original building dates back to 1888.
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  #30540  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2015, 6:21 PM
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Demolition permits issued for all the Rush Hospital buildings between Congress and Harrison facing Wood. Beautiful old buildings. Bummer.
I'm surprised these buildings weren't subject to the 3 month demolition delay ordinance, considering their age and architecture, despite the modified upper floors. The same goes for 159 W Burton next to the Carl Street Studios. That developer should have never been granted a demo permit without the neighbors getting the customary 3 month notice.

Such potentially significant buildings shouldn't be receiving demolition permits without the public having a chance to be aware and review first. Either there are some major holes in the reporting of orange and red rated buildings in the city, or someone at city hall is overriding the system. Like the building on Division that was only on the list for a week before getting a permit. Something fishy is going on...


On the note of buildings on the demolition delay list, I see that a demo permit is being sought for the 4 story brick building at 161 E. Grand. Does anyone know anything about a potential project there?

Also on the list seeking demo permits for upcoming development:
- 209 W lake Street
- 800/802 N Wells

Lastly, the Cedar Hotel has received its permit to salvage the facade and demo the rest of the building. Things should be moving there soon.

Last edited by Ned.B; Sep 20, 2015 at 4:09 PM.
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