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  #1  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 1:17 PM
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GO/VIA Transit

New GO trains for Hamilton?

The Hamilton Spectator Wire Services

Hamilton could see express GO rail service from downtown Toronto to Hamilton, as well as Oshawa, Brampton, Richmond Hill and Mississauga, running every 15 minutes, every day.

That revelation comes from a confidential draft plan for combatting commuter congestion in the Toronto area.

The report calls for spending $55 billion over 25 years on a network of new subway light-rail lines, improved commuter rail, express bus routes and longer, wider roads.

The blueprint was drawn up by Metrolinx, the provincial transportation agency.

A copy was obtained by The Globe and Mail, which published details today.

Check back for further details later.
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  #2  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 1:24 PM
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$55-billion Toronto transit plan sets stage for political battle

Proposal pits mayor against province over light-rail line

JEFF GRAY

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

September 3, 2008 at 3:39 AM EDT

A confidential draft plan for combatting commuter congestion in the Toronto region calls for spending $55-billion over 25 years on a network of new subway and light-rail lines, improved commuter rail, express bus routes and longer and wider roads.

The blueprint, drawn up by Metrolinx, the provincial transportation agency, also promises to set up a political fight between Mayor David Miller - who sits on the agency's board - and the province. The Metrolinx plan runs against the mayor's signature Transit City light-rail plan by calling for what the TTC has warned would be a prohibitively expensive subway-like transit line on Eglinton Avenue.

The Metrolinx plan, a copy of which was viewed by The Globe and Mail, is being presented to board members and provincial officials, including Premier Dalton McGuinty, this week.

It is more modest than other scenarios contemplated by Metrolinx, including one concept that would have cost $90-billion. The plan says it would cost $2.2-billion a year over 25 years, with most of the spending in the first 15 years. Many of the new transit lines it includes have been proposed, in one form or another, before, or were included in the province's $17.5-billion MoveOntario 2020 plan. The highlights are:

* Express GO Transit rail service from downtown Toronto to Hamilton, Oshawa, Brampton, Richmond Hill and Mississauga, running every 15 minutes, all day, in both directions;

* Express rail service every 15 minutes to Pearson Airport from Union Station;

* A subway or subway-like "Metro" line along Eglinton Avenue;

* A "Downtown Core" east-west subway line;

* Thousands of kilometres of longer and wider roads, including the extension of Highway 407 east to Clarington, as well as extensions to the 404, 427 and 410;

* Local rapid-transit bus or light-rail services along major routes in Hamilton, Halton, Peel, York and Durham Regions;

* $500-million for "active transportation," such as bike lanes;

* Northward extensions of TTC light-rail lines planned for Jane Street and Don Mills north to Highway 7 in York Region;

* GO Transit commuter rail service expansions or improvements including routes to Niagara, Kitchener-Waterloo, Bowmanville and Aurora.

Metrolinx's 11-member board, made up mostly of Greater Toronto Area municipal politicians, with four seats from the city of Toronto, will debate the draft plan at a retreat this weekend in King City. Premier Dalton McGuinty is also scheduled to have a briefing on the plan this week, one source familiar with the plan said. A final-draft version, which may include modifications to the current plan, is to be presented this month for public consultations.

Other potentially controversial policies under consideration by Metrolinx - such as road tolls for the 400-series highways or new taxes on parking spots or gasoline - are to be presented in a separate financial plan.

For now, the revisions to the TTC's Transit City plan will likely generate the most political heat, as public meetings on the mayor's proposed light-rail lines, including a partly tunnelled line on Eglinton, are already going ahead.

While the Premier previously appeared to endorse the city's light-rail agenda, which is now expected to cost about $10-billion, Metrolinx is supposed to fine-tune the region's transportation plan and set priorities for provincial funding. Mr. Miller campaigned on the plan to run new, more modern streetcars along a partly tunnelled route on Eglinton, so scrapping that for a subway would put Toronto's mayor and Metrolinx on a collision course.

Adam Giambrone, the city councillor who chairs the TTC and also sits on the Metrolinx board, said yesterday he had not seen a copy of the plan. But he reiterated the TTC's objection to a subway along Eglinton, which he said is not warranted given the projected ridership numbers and would cost as much as $10-billion compared with a light-rail line with an estimated $2.2-billion price tag.

He warned it would also take much longer to build, meaning it might not happen at all - the fate met by the last subway planned for Eglinton, upon which construction had already begun before it was cancelled in 1995 by the newly elected provincial Progressive Conservative government of Mike Harris.

"I think we have said very clearly that we are not going to build a Metro or a subway on Eglinton," Mr. Giambrone said.

Metrolinx chairman Rob MacIsaac has argued previously that Eglinton is busy enough to warrant more than just a light-rail line.
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  #3  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 2:19 PM
FairHamilton FairHamilton is offline
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* Express GO Transit rail service from downtown Toronto to Hamilton, Oshawa, Brampton, Richmond Hill and Mississauga, running every 15 minutes, all day, in both directions;
Great news if it happens.

On a side note, I heard yesterday that GO Transit is eliminating Rush Hour Bus service between Hamilton and Union Station on January 1, 2009.
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  #4  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 2:46 PM
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That would be extremely foolish. Not until GO Train Express is a reality and it'll likely take YEARS and many phases.

Look how long it took just to add another track to Hamilton from Aldershot.
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  #5  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 2:46 PM
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I'll believe it when I see it.
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  #6  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 3:50 PM
go_leafs_go02 go_leafs_go02 is offline
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I highly doubt it. Even with traffic delays, taking the bus right now is alot quicker than taking the bus to aldershot/burlington and the train from there on in.
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  #7  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 4:52 PM
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It's Rush Hour bus service being eliminated, they'll still be running non-rush hour bus service Union to Hamilton (Hamilton to Union).

The elimination of the Rush Hour bus service will be because of the additional train service from the complete the platform work in December at GO Centre.

I view this a minus for Hamilton. One of the unique things for Hamilton, over other cities in our area, is the bus/train option at rush hour. And most afternoons it's quicker taking the bus, then taking the train Union to GO Centre.
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Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 4:58 PM
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no surprise...Hamilton is used to getting screwed by 'provincial' or 'federal' agencies.
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  #9  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 5:20 PM
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Why would they eliminate Rush Hour bus service? It's always the bussiest. And what does traffic have anything to do with it? Every time there's congestion on the QEW it takes Hwy407. It adds about 10mins to the ride, but saves the hassle of waiting in line on a highway.

I don't believe they'll remove rush hour bus service EVER. If they do, they'll be bringing it back real quick!

Great news re: the $$$$... but 25 years!?!?! Come on! I'll be 50!
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  #10  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 5:41 PM
FairHamilton FairHamilton is offline
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Why would they eliminate Rush Hour bus service? It's always the bussiest. And what does traffic have anything to do with it? Every time there's congestion on the QEW it takes Hwy407. It adds about 10mins to the ride, but saves the hassle of waiting in line on a highway.
As I understand it, the reason for cancelling the rush hour bus service is because it's also being served by the trains. When they expand the train service when the platform work at GO Centre is complete they will push all the bus riders to the trains.

There's traffic before the 403 (where they access the 407) as well......... Sometimes it can take 10 - 15 minutes just to get onto the Gardiner, and 25 minutes to get to the Humber River. I ride the GO bus every evening so I know all their alternates (The Dome, Evans, Going Shopping, 403, 427, DVP, 407 and a few others). Usually quicker than train, sometimes not.

Trust me, I think it sucks. But that's what I heard from a GO Transit employee (bus driver).
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Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 6:27 PM
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^^ no offense to bus drivers, but they aren't the best sources.
I often hear HSR drivers exagerate about stuff too... especially during their almost-strike.

This rumour is just that, a rumour... wait, a stupid rumour. To take 2 buses off the road per hour (which would be what, 150'ish people removed from the highways themselves?) would be a bigger mistake than concentrating all GO services at GO North Hamilton (LIUNA Stn).

It's not going to happen. That bus driver was wrong. Maybe MikeToronto can help us out here? He does work for GO afterall.

ps: I'm also very familiar w/ GO services. And I love that I live in Corktown and it takes me literally 60mins to get from my front door to Union Station.
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  #12  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 6:33 PM
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Once the GO Station at James St North is up and running and the new platforms at Hunter is completed than I could see rush hour GO bus being eliminated.
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  #13  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 6:54 PM
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^^ problem with QEW Express vs Lakeshore West Express is that the Train ISN'T express to Downtown Toronto at all... and it's also a lot lengthier than the QEW Express bus.

Lakeshore W runs express from Hamilton GO to Clarkson (I believe?), Then stops at every stop between Clarkson & Union (except Exhibition).

The only way I can see them eliminating this route is when the lines are electrified, and the strip between Burlington GO & Hamilton GO (North or TH&B) isn't so excrusiatingly long/slow/irritating!
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  #14  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 7:00 PM
FairHamilton FairHamilton is offline
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Originally Posted by DC83 View Post
This rumour is just that, a rumour... wait, a stupid rumour. To take 2 buses off the road per hour (which would be what, 150'ish people removed from the highways themselves?) would be a bigger mistake than concentrating all GO services at GO North Hamilton (LIUNA Stn).
I agree it's just a rumour, like all kinds of other ones on this board. I'm just telling you what I heard.....

And it would take 4 buses off the road per hour, as they run every 15 minutes during rush hour. From a business perspective, it makes sense to me as when they add another train to the schedule the easiest way to get instant riders is to take away the buses.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
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Last edited by FairHamilton; Sep 3, 2008 at 7:46 PM.
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Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 7:14 PM
FairHamilton FairHamilton is offline
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^^ problem with QEW Express vs Lakeshore West Express is that the Train ISN'T express to Downtown Toronto at all... and it's also a lot lengthier than the QEW Express bus.

Lakeshore W runs express from Hamilton GO to Clarkson (I believe?), Then stops at every stop between Clarkson & Union (except Exhibition).

The only way I can see them eliminating this route is when the lines are electrified, and the strip between Burlington GO & Hamilton GO (North or TH&B) isn't so excrusiatingly long/slow/irritating!
I don't think the train is currently referred to as 'Express', I don't know where you are getting that phrase. The news article from today, refers to the new proposed services as 'Express', but I don't think today's service has ever been referred to as 'Express'.

To set the record straight.
- Eastbound (morning) all stops to Oakville, and then express to Union.
- Westbound (evening) express to Clarkson and all stops to Hamilton GO Centre.

While I agree there is often time saving on the bus (it's generally my evening choice), it's not that significant (note these are scheduled times and are subject be hit, or missed).
- Train time - 1:09 to 1:19 (depends on departure time)
- Bus non-rush hour - 1 hour
- Bus rush hour - 1.5 hours (though it often beats it)
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Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 7:56 PM
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I think they should run a limited stop service off-peak that would stop 3 times between Hamilton and Toronto. Travel time could be an hour or less. Rush hour trains would continue to service intermediate stops with a half-express configuration. As travel demand increases and funding becomes available a local service could run parallel to the limited stop serving all destinations.

This would also encourage the local transit systems in Burlington, Oakville and Mississauga to develop efficient routes centralized around their major rail stations and would encourage those municipalities to intensify there.

As I understand they run express from Oakville because they're full at that point, not because it helps us get there faster.
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  #17  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 8:44 PM
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A couple of GO Transit points:

All the Lakeshore West GO Trains currently running from Hamilton GO Centre are considered express trains by GO. They make all stops between Hamilton and Oakville, then express from Oakville(the 6:14 makes an additional stop at Clarkson before going express to Union). Other AM express trains include the 7:15, 8:00 and 8:44 from Burlington, the 7:58 train from Oakville, and the 7:58 train from Clarkson. All other trains make all stops (although most skip Exhibition when the CNE doesn't run), and are considered local trains. Likewise for the afternoon trains.

As far as express GO bus service is concerned, I can see the bus used for extra runs from Hamilton during the AM rush being dropped, but service during the AM rush certainly won't be dropped entirely. The extra AM train will likely reduce the frequency of AM express buses, but won't result in no express bus service in the morning. The driver talking to Fairhamilton was likely referreing to a cancelled express run, not the cancellation of all rush hour express service entirely. Perhaps Fairhamilton can clarify with the driver next time he sees him.

If the express train service every 15 minutes ever becomes a reality, then I can definitely see no Hamilton GO bus express service during rush hour. Which IMO would be a net benefit. Rush hour bus trips take just as much time, if not more time than the current train trips. Seeing as the buses run that frequently now, levels of service would remain the same. Train schedules will be more reliable than the bus, seeing as they are not impacted by highway volume, and the capacity levels would increase significantly. However, I don't see express service from Hamilton at this frequency becoming a reality by Jan 1, 2009.
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  #18  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 8:45 PM
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Ok I couldn't understand at least 2 posts above because they were ambiguous depending on the usage of THEN vs THAN:

THEN - a description of time
THAN - a comparison


Please don't be offended... its happened a lot and I can't hold back any longer!
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Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 9:01 PM
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What? I just read the above 5 posts and everyones' usage is correct. (those things piss me off too)
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Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 9:18 PM
go_leafs_go02 go_leafs_go02 is offline
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so if they are to remove the hamilton express service..would it be an idea to run the buses from downtown hamilton through stoney creek to burlington? or what?
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