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  #8021  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2021, 7:44 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooted Arborial View Post
I've said it before - I think this blow-through trend is a sign of the times
fav quote ever
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  #8022  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2021, 9:46 PM
Klippenstein Klippenstein is offline
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Here's an interesting article relevant to this discussion.

Quote:
Von Klemperer says he has never seen the kinds of floods and elevator outages the Times documented at 432 Park Avenue, but “it’s the kind of thing you’re warned might happen if you don’t get the design right.”

You may think that once you’ve figured out how to keep the building upright and made it stiff enough to live in without a daily Dramamine, getting the elevators and plumbing right would be easy. Unfortunately, that’s also where the wiggle room is. Builders and value engineers are constantly pressing architects to cut down on steel and shave off extras within the limits of the law. The building code covers safety issues, but ensuring that a building will be comfortable, quiet, and durable means meeting optional higher standards.
Quote:
In construction, speed is both necessary and risky. “A supertall is built on a fast-track schedule, and that process can be tricky to navigate,” says Andrew Cleary, a director at KPF. The foundations get excavated before the design is finished, and the concrete-and-steel superstructure rises even as, on lower floors, workers are busily installing the curtain wall, ductwork, and sprinkler systems. “The choreography is sophisticated, and that’s where things can go wrong.”
https://www.curbed.com/2021/02/skysc...lems-html.html

This is not to say that making these changes during construction is ideal. It definitely can compromise the aesthetic, but I'd rather that than compromising the quality.
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  #8023  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2021, 10:58 PM
rivernorthlurker rivernorthlurker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klippenstein View Post
Here's an interesting article relevant to this discussion.





https://www.curbed.com/2021/02/skysc...lems-html.html

This is not to say that making these changes during construction is ideal. It definitely can compromise the aesthetic, but I'd rather that than compromising the quality.
Bascially what the forum said...


Quote:
All skyscrapers face a common foe: wind. Even a bulky office tower planted on a full city block — like, say, the John Hancock Tower in Chicago — can creak and shift on a blustery night. The sort of slender, reedlike condo building designed for the few, the foreign, and the filthy rich has to work that much harder to stand firm, like a ballerina remaining en pointe in a gale. “The standards for tolerance are tighter in a residential building than in an office building,” says von Klemperer. “That’s mainly because of the water in a toilet bowl. If residents see it sloshing around, they freak out.”
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  #8024  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2021, 4:15 AM
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Xing Lin Xing Lin is offline
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If they'd get rid of that dumb looking frame around the blow-through floor so that it's just the structural columns and the core, it would actually look like an impressive architectural feature, levitating the last section above a clear void. With that ugly exterior grid, it just looks like two levels of blasted-out windows.

Surely the empty window grid would make a hell of a racket when high winds blow through? I remember the simple mesh fence around Taipei 101's outdoor observation deck made a continuous whistle sound in the wind.
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  #8025  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2021, 4:48 PM
Rooted Arborial Rooted Arborial is offline
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I hope this will be my last comment about this building.

This building is a lesson to be learned.

After contemplating the peculiarly disappointing features of this building, I wonder if it had been designed as a single prominent tower which

arose out of a base of about 12 stories if it might have been a much more impressive (and solidly not in need of that ghastly blow-through).

If the reinforcing core which weaves the lower towers together had extended up through the tower and the widths of the North/South elevations

were approximately that of the 2d highest section the building might have been a great success.

The removal of the opposing alternating in and out of the adjacent towers would have reduced the feeling that this building is conflicting with itself.

The curving vertical flow might have been much more appealing if it had been one, wider, prominent tower arising from a base.

Of course the floor space would have been much larger in the top floors and that probably would have meant that there would be more people

sharing the elevators and THAT, I suppose, would have not appealed to the the vanity of the rich - which seems to have dictated the design.

All we can do at this point is hope that architects will be less likely in the future to let gimmickry again override good design which incorporates

integrity.
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  #8026  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2021, 5:46 PM
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The Pimp The Pimp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooted Arborial View Post
I hope this will be my last comment about this building.

This building is a lesson to be learned.

After contemplating the peculiarly disappointing features of this building, I wonder if it had been designed as a single prominent tower which

arose out of a base of about 12 stories if it might have been a much more impressive (and solidly not in need of that ghastly blow-through).

If the reinforcing core which weaves the lower towers together had extended up through the tower and the widths of the North/South elevations

were approximately that of the 2d highest section the building might have been a great success.

The removal of the opposing alternating in and out of the adjacent towers would have reduced the feeling that this building is conflicting with itself.

The curving vertical flow might have been much more appealing if it had been one, wider, prominent tower arising from a base.

Of course the floor space would have been much larger in the top floors and that probably would have meant that there would be more people

sharing the elevators and THAT, I suppose, would have not appealed to the the vanity of the rich - which seems to have dictated the design.

All we can do at this point is hope that architects will be less likely in the future to let gimmickry again override good design which incorporates

integrity.
Good grief.... Please stop Monday morning quarterbacking this project. It's been criticized to DEATH! Please move on.
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  #8027  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2021, 9:11 PM
southoftheloop southoftheloop is offline
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Time to close this thread before it gets buried in uninspired critiques
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  #8028  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2021, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southoftheloop View Post
Time to close this thread before it gets buried in uninspired critiques
Which reminds me, I should probably go in the One World Trade Center thread and complain about the spire cladding again.
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  #8029  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2021, 12:30 AM
pilsenarch pilsenarch is offline
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well, this building has become the No 1 example in architectural design and structural classes around the globe as how NOT to design a supertall... so we can brag about that...
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  #8030  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2021, 3:53 PM
Dasylirion Dasylirion is offline
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Please god, just close this thread already. The horse is long dead and now beaten to a pulp.
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  #8031  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2021, 4:38 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is online now
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A rave review in the WSJ for the Regis in today's paper, calling it the best highrise in Chicago in a generation. The most elegant fashion imaginable.

I understand that there are some mixed feelings about this building and why they exist. But when I'm in Grant Park, driving on LSD or biking on the lake front, I can't take my eyes off it. I'd be shocked if history didn't consider it to be a dramatic success.
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  #8032  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2021, 7:12 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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If you are asking whether this building would have needed a blowthru if there wasn't a street running through the middle of it, then yes. Honestly this building could have been much simpler if it were integrated completely with a three level multilevel roadway. If only!
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  #8033  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2021, 9:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum View Post
A rave review in the WSJ for the Regis in today's paper, calling it the best highrise in Chicago in a generation. The most elegant fashion imaginable.

I understand that there are some mixed feelings about this building and why they exist. But when I'm in Grant Park, driving on LSD or biking on the lake front, I can't take my eyes off it. I'd be shocked if history didn't consider it to be a dramatic success.
Wow that is solid praise and a good read. Thanks for the link
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  #8034  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2021, 3:23 PM
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From July 19




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  #8035  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2021, 5:17 PM
BruceP BruceP is online now
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Sorry, but the treatment of the blow-through floor is a major design fail. Ditto for the haphazard treatment of the mechanical floors. Overall, a swing and a miss.

Last edited by BruceP; Jul 30, 2021 at 1:23 AM.
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  #8036  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2021, 5:19 PM
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Nick, how do you consistently outdo yourself???
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  #8037  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2021, 6:02 PM
PittsburghPA PittsburghPA is offline
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Nick fantastic shots as always. I simply do not understand the hate for this building. Even with the mechanical floor scars on the south side its still absolutely beautiful. Nitpicking I'm ok with but overall this building will be a great Chicago addition for generations to come.

Edit: Also I love the blow through floor, being unique in Chicago to this building. I just wish they would light it up at night.

Last edited by PittsburghPA; Jul 29, 2021 at 7:25 PM.
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  #8038  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2021, 6:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PittsburghPA View Post
Nick fantastic shots as always. I simply do not understand the hate for this building. Even with the mechanical floor scars on the south side its still absolutely beautiful. Nitpicking I'm ok with but overall this building will be a great Chicago addition for generations to come.
Agree
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  #8039  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2021, 8:17 PM
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vexxed82 vexxed82 is offline
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Nick, how do you consistently outdo yourself???
Thanks! Right place, right time, and a decent amount of editing. Twas a really hazy/smoky morning, but I was able to pull good deal of contrast/color out of the scene. Might have overcooked the warm toners on the right side of the cityscape, though.
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  #8040  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2021, 8:55 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
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Nick, once again, fantastic work!

The layers and textures in that skyline shot are just outstanding.

The whole really is greater than the sum of its parts.
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