CFL 2020 Season

[elly63]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I'd like to see more opportunities for Canadians as well. There are many though who would say the league would be "unwatchable" if it was only Canadians.

They're not or ever have been fans so who cares what they think. I would start with halving the amount of Americans so with that decrease you would really have some competition amongst players who wanted to play here, leaving the cream of the crop.

This is actually a golden opportunity for the CFL, to downsize while still having the historical name and brand recognition. Someone floated the idea of two way players, I wouldn't reduce the rosters that much but maybe enough so there would have to be some two way players.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by savevp

Something I've personally thought a lot about as a fan in Toronto, witnessing firsthand that Canadian Football is a dying sport outside the Prairies provinces.

+1 to your recommendations and I'd add, change the uniform suppliers and design. Instead of just a copycat American look with big, individualistic emphasis on the numbers, go to something like the Aussie rules uniforms, with unique striping and colours for each club. And yes, helmets and pads are counterproductive to safety, with new uniforms we could institute at least reduced shoulder pad sizes as a start.

I once wrote the CFL asking if they'd ever solicit input from reasonably young, urban, eastern fans (ideally who they need to re-attract) but didn't get a response.

Maybe it's nostalgia but I'd love to see these designs as modernised uniforms :

The size of the pads worn by players have been reduced quite a bit over the years. Bobby Jurisan - 1989

Cameron Judge 2019

[savevp]

Wow!!^

I chucked together a quick concept, as one does these days, for a modernised throwback Argonauts uniform. In essence, I think if the CFL wants to come out of the NFL's shadow, it will have to look less like the NFL. I know the current uniform template has existed in Canada for decades, but the perception that the CFL is just NFL junior is probably not helped by the superficial visual similarities between the two codes. I recognise some people will hate this idea but the "let's not and say we didn't" crowd will probably resist any fundamental change to the game, the kind of which may be necessary to ensure it has a future beyond the current generation.

[isaidso]

Hell no! The constant attempts to 'not be the USA' is tiring and self defeating. Can we not recognize the CFL and football for what they've always been: Canadian institutions and part of our cultural history? They're both quintessentially Canadian and both originate in this country. It's pretty sad if people will only take pride and ownership in it if we try to make things as un-American as possible. Are Canadians really that culturally insecure? If it really makes some people so uncomfortable that Canada and the US are culturally similar, go tell the Americans and the NFL to stop copying us.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with football or the CFL. We should cater and focus on those who already value it not on a city/people who've largely abandoned it. If Toronto isn't interested in a sport and league that traces its origins to their own city, that's their loss.

A big problem is that 95% of Torontonians don't know that football traces its origins to Toronto. They think it's an American sport we imported. The absurdity of it all is mind boggling. It's akin to the English rejecting English cricket in favour of Indian cricket ......because they assume that cricket obviously comes from India, that Indian cricket is 'real' cricket, English cricket is just a pale imitator, and the existence of English cricket evidence of the English desperate attempt to be Indian. And then to take the absurdity to a new level attempting to change the look of English cricket so it doesn't look so Indian.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by savevp

I recognise some people will hate this idea but the "let's not and say we didn't" crowd will probably resist any fundamental change to the game, the kind of which may be necessary to ensure it has a future beyond the current generation.

So let's copy Australian football instead, good plan.

[elly63]

Amen, Isaidso. The haterz are always gonna hate so who cares about them. They're not the people buying the tickets or merch or watching on TV, don't give them the time of day. Hell, the real Americans who have been exposed to it seem to enjoy the game more than the wannabes, figure that one out.

I'm usually not sitting around thinking about how the CFL rates in comparison to the NFL my only issue is so called Canadians coming to CFL forums and shitting on it. What kind of a person would do that to your own national league? I could care less if you don't like it just don't try to sabotage it. I'll never understand that.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by isaidso

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with football or the CFL. We should cater and focus on those who already value it not on a city/people who've largely abandoned it.

Sure, and in twenty years we can have a CFL that exists in only Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba because the number of young people outside those provinces who care can be counted on one figurative hand.

I'm a devoted CFL fan and about as strongly anti-NFL as anyone can be. But, I'm also pragmatic and realise that if we don't actively evolve our game, it won't exist for long. And to make one thing very clear, I agree the league should never cater to those who think the CFL must be inferior because it's not American. They can shove an American football up their collective arses. But the population who actively avoid the CFL in favour of American football, because of an inferiority complex, that population is smaller than we give it credit for in CFL circles. In Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver, as well as Hamilton it's an ever-older crowd who don't represent sustainable future support for any league. Frankly, I'm sick of having fewer and fewer friends who want to watch or attend games with me, and I'm hardly alone. The reality for any sport league is that if you don't attract young fans, you won't survive, and football is anemic as both a participation and spectator sport in Canada, and utterly irrelevant outside the Prairies.

Yes, we know Canadian football is the unique, original, and far superior code. But that means very little if an increasing majority of Canadians view it as similar and inferior to the NFL. I posted the above image to highlight an alternative to uniforms designed and produced by an American company, like the footballs themselves- hardly a Canadian institution. And frankly, we can't expect casual fans or potential future fans to differentiate the subtleties of our two codes when they look so similar.

So as CFL fans continue to age and not be replaced by younger folks, soccer has supplanted rugby in the three largest markets, and rugby is now rapidly approaching in the largest.

So, should we keep the league the way it and ride the steady decline or try and save it by making substantial changes?

[savevp]

Originally Posted by elly63

So let's copy Australian football instead, good plan.

No, let's look into CFL's past to re-create uniform concepts. If you read my post you'll see I used the AFL uniforms as a template as they are similar to what Canadian Football uniforms once were. The current format of CFL uniforms is a copy of American football, precisely because American suppliers are designing and producing Canadian uniforms.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by savevp

Something I've personally thought a lot about as a fan in Toronto, witnessing firsthand that Canadian Football is a dying sport outside the Prairies provinces.

Dying in Ottawa and Hamilton? First I've heard of it. Montreal turned the tide last season, so why don't you just say dying in Toronto.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by elly63

Dying in Ottawa and Hamilton? First I've heard of it. Montreal turned the tide last season, so why don't you just say dying in Toronto.

In the three biggest markets, CFL attendance is under 20 000. I'll grant Hamilton and Ottawa are filling seats, though in my personal experience, Tiger cats support is drawn mostly from older fans too. Few things are more upsetting to me than seeing the Super Bowl now widely, and increasingly, outranks the Grey Cup on TV. Football participation is down across Canada.

I don't want to be one of the idiot pundits who go on every year and proclaim the CFL's end is nigh, but as an Argonauts season ticket holder and annual Grey Cup attender, I'm not blind; you'd have to be blind not to see the average age of CFL fans is high and increasing. The sport needs to innovate to attract young fans, and that's not a new thing.

In the early 1900s, Canadian football adopted the 'Burnside rules' and switched from more rugby like to more like the growing American game. So it's not as if proposals to change things are brand new, if anything it's a reversal of wholesale changes from a century ago.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnside_rules

I'd suggest reading this if you've not done before. Changing from a rugby like game to an American-style gridiron game was something done after Canadian football had already grown popular. It was radical at the time but adopted, and led to the growth of the game as it is today. Proposing radical change today, back away from the American game isn't as radical as it's made out to be.

[esquire]

What is it about the original rules that is so appealing? If people want to watch a rugby-style game, wouldn't they just watch rugby?

[savevp]

Originally Posted by esquire

What is it about the original rules that is so appealing? If people want to watch a rugby-style game, wouldn't they just watch rugby?

I'd argue that much of what makes our game superior to American football is that it remains slightly closer to rugby. Rugby has the advantage of being quicker and more flowing, as well as simpler. We see baseball for example trying desperately to speed up game times, something the CFL's also tepidly moved toward.

Transitioning to a simpler, faster game that isn't held up so often by technicalities (what's more off-putting to a casual fan than a procedure flag), and continuing to shorten the time between downs would probably help attract younger fans.

Although in response to your original question, people actually are turning to rugby. The Wolfpack in Toronto are gaining on the Argos attendance-wise and now there is a second team in Ottawa. As well as the rugby union side in Toronto and the enduring popularity of that code in BC. Reading the tea leaves, I think rugby and soccer will continue to squeeze CFL in the big cities simply because they're faster and have more active 'supporter culture.'

[esquire]

Originally Posted by savevp

I'd argue that much of what makes our game superior to American football is that it remains slightly closer to rugby. Rugby has the advantage of being quicker and more flowing, as well as simpler. We see baseball for example trying desperately to speed up game times, something the CFL's also tepidly moved toward.

Transitioning to a simpler, faster game that isn't held up so often by technicalities (what's more off-putting to a casual fan than a procedure flag), and continuing to shorten the time between downs would probably help attract younger fans.

Although in response to your original question, people actually are turning to rugby. The Wolfpack in Toronto are gaining on the Argos attendance-wise and now there is a second team in Ottawa. As well as the rugby union side in Toronto and the enduring popularity of that code in BC. Reading the tea leaves, I think rugby and soccer will continue to squeeze CFL in the big cities simply because they're faster and have more active 'supporter culture.'

I agree that game stoppages are an annoyance and better game flow should be a priority. I think the CFL hit the high water mark for that a few years ago with incessant video reviews and coach's challenges. The league has dialled that back somewhat which is good, but there's room for improvement.

That said, saying that the CFL should switch to rugby because that's what some people in Toronto want is like saying that the NHL should switch to basketball because "it's the future". They are two fundamentally different sports.

As for 'supporter culture', that is totally what the fans make of it. I would argue that the community owned western CFL teams like Edmonton, Sask and Winnipeg have the best 'supporter culture' of all since the teams are not privately owned and fans have a sense of ownership and investment in the team.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by esquire

That said, saying that the CFL should switch to rugby because that's what some people in Toronto want is like saying that the NHL should switch to basketball because "it's the future". They are two fundamentally different sports.

If this is how my post is being perceived, I probably didn't articulate my ideas very well. I merely mean to say that people are probably being drawn to rugby in increasing numbers (in Toronto, Ottawa, BC) because it doesn't suffer from the constant play stoppages. Of course gridiron-style games will be stop-go by design, but continuing to do away with procedural flags, coach's challenge flags, and the like would probably prevent the leakage of fans to rugby. Basically I am arguing the CFL must find new, even radical, ways to speed up the flow of the game. The earlier suggestion for all-tempo offence makes eminent sense to me.

Originally Posted by esquire

As for 'supporter culture', that is totally what the fans make of it. I would argue that the community owned western CFL teams like Edmonton, Sask and Winnipeg have the best 'supporter culture' of all since the teams are not privately owned and fans have a sense of ownership and investment in the team.

I'll grant you that, as with about any aspect of off-field CFL affairs, the healthy Prairie markets are carrying the largely ailing clubs elsewhere (exception, at least for the time being; Ottawa). I know from friends in both Toronto and Montreal that soccer has become the preferred summer sport because the opportunities for engagement as a fan are so much higher. Yes in CFL there is plenty of opportunity to be engaged, but soccer took CFL's melon heads and raised us flares, large tifo's, and 90 minutes of singing. The Argos tried to institute some of that when they moved to BMO Field but didn't quite go all the way. As a young person in Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver, you can easily be attracted to the spectacle of soccer support rather than the comparatively passive experience of attending a CFL game.

Again, it's not my intention to ridicule CFL and demand it completely change and become something new just to please Toronto. But I am attempting to tackle the question of why in the biggest markets, CFL continues to profusely bleed fans to 'newer' international codes of football and simultaneously lose gridiron fans to the US. And yes I completely understand the resentment of old-time CFL fans in healthier markets, but surely there must be consensus that if the three biggest cities don't have sustainable support, there is a need to change course to save the whole ship.

[VANRIDERFAN]

- Being on a platform (TSN) that is cable only and refuses to allow its games on Network TV (CTV, CBC, Global) or on an easily accessable streaming service is killing the TV numbers which kills national sponsorship which just makes the CFL look bush to the target demographic.

- The big city teams inability to think outside of the box when it comes to marketing their team to young kids. Here's a thought, your seats are empty anyway so why don't you get a parent to buy a regular ticket and up to 4 kids under 15 can go to the game for free. Or all those inner city kids who are lanquishing in underfunded community centres, make it a day at the game for them. Have a bus painted in team colours come and pick up the kids, feed them, do football related activities with them, go to the game and then meet up with team members after the game. Get them while they're young and they'll be fans for life.
Will it cost money? Of course it will. But any successful business will tell you that you have to spend some money to make a lot of money.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

- Being on a platform (TSN) that is cable only and refuses to allow its games on Network TV (CTV, CBC, Global) or on an easily accessable streaming service is killing the TV numbers which kills national sponsorship which just makes the CFL look bush to the target demographic.

I often hear this said but surely the CFL and Bell/TSN must know what they're doing here... the rights to the CFL must hold enough value to TSN that they'd have a monopoly instead of putting the games on other networks, including OTA broadcasters. And the CFL must gain enough from the arrangement that they don't mind.

I mean, if there were better alternatives, then why wouldn't someone else (Global? CBC?) outbid Bell and put the games on broadcast TV?

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by esquire

I often hear this said but surely the CFL and Bell/TSN must know what they're doing here... the rights to the CFL must hold enough value to TSN that they'd have a monopoly instead of putting the games on other networks, including OTA broadcasters. And the CFL must gain enough from the arrangement that they don't mind.

I mean, if there were better alternatives, then why wouldn't someone else (Global? CBC?) outbid Bell and put the games on broadcast TV?

CFL TV numbers have been in decline since the exclusive package with TSN. Not being on network OTA TV makes the league look bush. The NFL gets network time on CTV and that is a huge free gain for them that the CFL doesn’t get.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

CFL TV numbers have been in decline since the exclusive package with TSN. Not being on network OTA TV makes the league look bush. The NFL gets network time on CTV and that is a huge free gain for them that the CFL doesn’t get.

Does it make that much of a difference? TSN is included in a lot of basic cable packages, so it's not like it's some obscure, expensive channel.

If Bell knew that it would profit far more from putting games on CTV, then why don't they do it? Conversely, if the CFL could get more out of the deal by selling rights to a broadcaster that intends to put them on OTA television, then what's stopping them? If there was an opportunity to make money you'd think someone would step in, even a non-TV broadcaster like when the big breweries held the rights in the 70s and into the 80s.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by esquire

Does it make that much of a difference? TSN is included in a lot of basic cable packages, so it's not like it's some obscure, expensive channel.

If Bell knew that it would profit far more from putting games on CTV, then why don't they do it? Conversely, if the CFL could get more out of the deal by selling rights to a broadcaster that intends to put them on OTA television, then what's stopping them? If there was an opportunity to make money you'd think someone would step in, even a non-TV broadcaster like when the big breweries held the rights in the 70s and into the 80s.

I'm not a TV exec, but sometimes I think the suits in Toronto really don't know what they're doing. Be it Bell or the CFL. Rod Pedersen told me that media sports departments are run by accountants and not sports people and its all about the bottom line now and there is no concept about growing an audience. Why do you think Sportsnet and TSN are full of poker, darts and NCAA sports? Its cause they're cheap and they don't have to pay for production or talent.

Anyway, I doubt that there'll be CFL football this year. But man I hope when CFL 3.0 starts up that there is more forward looking people in the positions of influence who are not scared to take chances. I'm not holding my breath.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by esquire

If Bell knew that it would profit far more from putting games on CTV, then why don't they do it? Conversely, if the CFL could get more out of the deal by selling rights to a broadcaster that intends to put them on OTA television, then what's stopping them? If there was an opportunity to make money you'd think someone would step in, even a non-TV broadcaster like when the big breweries held the rights in the 70s and into the 80s.

I wonder if it's not a matter of whether Bell would make more money by putting games on CTV, but rather how much TSN would lose. Live sports is obviously huge and the CFL is TSN's cash cow in the Summer when the NHL is in the off-season. Take it from TSN, and the channel suddenly has plenty of airtime to fill with no major properties to do so, unless Bell wants to bring the Expos back (note to Bell: please bring the Expos back).