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  #61  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2019, 11:37 PM
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I am cautiously optimistic but this thing still has a long way to go before it is clear for takeoff. I would hope a Sobeys or McCains jumps on board to help fund this.
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  #62  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 1:12 AM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Those first two paragraphs could have been written about Winnipeg. I suspect it's something that afflicts mid sized cities where there is a need or at least a desire for certain big city amenities like stadiums or whatever else, but getting them built isn't necessarily a slam dunk the way it might be in a larger city like Montreal. And then they take on a life of their own as politicians try to boost their career by catering to the 'no' crowd, and on and on it goes.
There are a few different tensions in Halifax. One is between people who want it to be a big city and those who want a small town. Toronto's expensive housing and painful commutes select for people who are looking for or are willing to put up with a big city. In Halifax that selection used to be very weak and now is only moderate.

In the 90's and early 2000's the growth rates were much lower than they are now (and they used to be the same as now in the 40's-80's; the 90's were the aberration). Economically the 90's were terrible in Halifax, and the hangover is just ending now. A lot of people have not internalized this change, think of the metropolitan area's infrastructure needs as being more or less static. The major infrastructure there in 2005 was very similar to what it was in 1990. This is tolerable for a long time in a city growing at 0.5% per year but not 2% per year.
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  #63  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 1:55 AM
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I am cautiously optimistic but this thing still has a long way to go before it is clear for takeoff. I would hope a Sobeys or McCains jumps on board to help fund this.
Don't hold your breath for that. And the Irvings? Not on your life!
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  #64  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 1:58 AM
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- Irvings have the Moncton Wildcats as a plaything
- McCains have the Saint John Sea Dogs
- Sobeys are way too focussed on their grocery business.
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Go 'Cats Go
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  #65  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 3:19 PM
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From this article it sounds like Collaros would much prefer to re-sign with the Bombers than head back to the garbage pile that is the Argos:

https://winnipegsun.com/sports/footb...urn-to-bombers
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  #66  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 4:34 PM
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^ Speaking of the Argos, their season ticket promo materials say they're playing 1 preseason and 8 regular season games at home. So it appears that for yet another season, they will be having a regular season game in some other city.

So between the games in other cities and the preseason games at Varsity Stadium, the Argos will have gone this decade having only played all 1+9 games at their actual home stadium 4 times: 2011, 2012, 2016 and 2017. Which is pretty lame... they're turning into the CFL's Jacksonville Jaguars.

That said, Argos tickets are remarkably cheap now. I spotted seats on the 30 yard line for what works out to basically $20 a game on a season ticket basis. By contrast, early bird pricing for BC Lions tickets on the 30 is $75 a game.
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  #67  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 5:34 PM
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MLSE owning the Argos seems like just another David Braley now. They pay the bills but do nothing to try and rebuild the team and do marketing and community outreach.
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  #68  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 7:11 PM
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MLSE owning the Argos seems like just another David Braley now. They pay the bills but do nothing to try and rebuild the team and do marketing and community outreach.
The Argos are the only team MLSE owns that actually requires any sort of marketing whatsoever. Leafs, Raps, and TFC essentially market themselves due to the sports they play. It's not really that difficult to market professional hockey, basketball, and soccer in Toronto....gridiron, on the other hand...

I can't remember if it was on this forum or elsewhere but when the Argos were purchased by MLSE a lot of people talked about the marketing heft they were bringing to the Argos. One user effectively dismissed that by saying that MLSE has never really had to market any of its teams before in any meaningful way. The Argos would be the first.
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  #69  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 7:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
The Argos are the only team MLSE owns that actually requires any sort of marketing whatsoever. Leafs, Raps, and TFC essentially market themselves due to the sports they play. It's not really that difficult to market professional hockey, basketball, and soccer in Toronto....gridiron, on the other hand...

I can't remember if it was on this forum or elsewhere but when the Argos were purchased by MLSE a lot of people talked about the marketing heft they were bringing to the Argos. One user effectively dismissed that by saying that MLSE has never really had to market any of its teams before in any meaningful way. The Argos would be the first.
Let's not kid ourselves here, North American professional sports themselves are an exercise in effective marketing. You think divine providence gets people to spend thousands of dollars on seats for any of Toronto's teams? (or any other city's for that matter?)
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  #70  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 7:29 PM
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Let's not kid ourselves here, North American professional sports themselves are an exercise in effective marketing.
Yes, the sports themselves do the marketing. That's what i'm saying. MLSE owns sports teams that require less marketing than, say, the CFL because they're a commodity that is very easy to sell.

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You think divine providence gets people to spend thousands of dollars on seats for any of Toronto's teams? (or any other city's for that matter?)
I think the prestigiousness of the sport, professional league, and the team (in the case of the Leafs) do the marketing themselves. The Leafs are the Leafs and sell seats regardless of how the team is doing and the city's demographics effectively ensure crowds at both Raptors and TFC. There isn't much marketing to actually do to bring awareness to these teams.
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  #71  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 7:34 PM
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^ You should tell that to MLSE so that they can issue pink slips to their presumably highly-paid marketing staff... well, all of them except for the ones assigned to the Argonauts.
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  #72  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 7:46 PM
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^ You should tell that to MLSE so that they can issue pink slips to their presumably highly-paid marketing staff... well, all of them except for the ones assigned to the Argonauts.
Will do. Marketing Leafs tickets must be like selling water to a fish.
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  #73  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 7:51 PM
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There is a difference between marketing and sales
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  #74  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 10:10 PM
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Let's not kid ourselves here, North American professional sports themselves are an exercise in effective marketing. You think divine providence gets people to spend thousands of dollars on seats for any of Toronto's teams? (or any other city's for that matter?)
What better marketing has been done to sell the Ponzi scheme that is MLS? How can a team have less attendance the year after winning a championship? How ironic that TFC fans gleefully trolled that about the Argos and TFC attendance is down again, are the millennials moving on? Or maybe they need some marketing?
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  #75  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Yes, the sports themselves do the marketing. That's what i'm saying. MLSE owns sports teams that require less marketing than, say, the CFL because they're a commodity that is very easy to sell.



I think the prestigiousness of the sport, professional league, and the team (in the case of the Leafs) do the marketing themselves. The Leafs are the Leafs and sell seats regardless of how the team is doing and the city's demographics effectively ensure crowds at both Raptors and TFC. There isn't much marketing to actually do to bring awareness to these teams.
Says the 50k fans that tune in to a regular season TFC game, or ~250k that tunes in to the MLS final in Canada, and total 1.5 Million total across NA... MLS would dream to have tv ratings the CFL gets.

I would argue it’s not so much the sport that sells TFC, rather the event of the game and gathering and dancing and singing in the crowd. If it was the sport that sold soccer TFC would get better tv ratings than ones that can’t even register.

My 2 cents...
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  #76  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 10:34 PM
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I would argue it’s not so much the sport that sells TFC, rather the event of the game and gathering and dancing and singing in the crowd. If it was the sport that sold soccer TFC would get better tv ratings than ones that can’t even register.
Very true, their ratings hardly extend beyond the stadium, which makes it incredulous to believe that by some miracle they will get a big US TV contract.

Oops, sorry, forgot we are in the CFL thread.
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  #77  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 10:38 PM
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Aside from the Leafs, none of MLSE's teams are big enough that they do not need marketing. The current fortunes of TFC and the Raptors stem largely from the fact that they are exciting products and champion contenders, and less-so because of the sport they play. Let's not forget five years ago when MLSE decided to bring Drake in to help market the team and create the "We The North" slogan, or the countless pieces of street art and advertisements that went up over the past year depicting Raptors players. The sport helps make people more inclined to check out a game, sure, but the marketing is what has given them their status in Toronto's sports scene.

Assuming that they will continue to have such success, on-field/court and at the box office, is unrealistic, especially when you look at the rise and fall of the Jays, which I would argue is pretty comparable. When they were doing great, they were the hottest ticket in the country, but now that they are in a rebuild? You better believe they need marketing.

To bring it all back to the CFL, though, I do think it poses marketing challenges that MLSE might struggle with. Canadian football has a stigma against it - rightly or wrongly - and a lot of people in the city have a sense of apathy to them that borderlines on a humorous contempt (seriously, Toronto is the only city in which a team wins a championship and the response is "nope doesn't count we still have a drought"). I still believe that the key to the Argos resurgence is making them the most family-friendly priced ticket in the city. Getting some of the gameday energy from TFC (or from the Riders or Redblacks, who promote their games moreso as a party than anything else) would also be a big help.
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  #78  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 10:58 PM
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Marketing goes no where unless the product is a consistent winner. If the Argos could put together seasons where they win 10 or more regular season games consistently it would help them draw much better than winning a fluke grey cup and then going 4-12 the following season like the 2012 and 2017 teams. The argos have had terrible regular seasons for almost 15 years now while in that time the Raptors and TFC built winning exciting clubs. The argos do not have the cool factor to attract millennial fans but they can try and go after blue collar fans and families emphasizing value for money to bring kids and a family to a game. In that area the Argos have done nothing to mention the value of their pricing for the entertainment dollar comparable to other sports in Toronto.
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  #79  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 11:12 PM
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In that area the Argos have done nothing to mention the value of their pricing for the entertainment dollar comparable to other sports in Toronto.
That's the second time you inferred the Argos have done nothing, go to the Argofans forum and you'll see what they are trying to do to long term rebuild the franchise.
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  #80  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 11:45 PM
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That's the second time you inferred the Argos have done nothing, go to the Argofans forum and you'll see what they are trying to do to long term rebuild the franchise.
I do every week and there are not many fans left on there because their fan base is so small and the fans who are on that forum still gripe about the cost of tickets its a grumpy old man forum on there. I want to see the Argos sell out every game but I have to say I have been very disappointed since their move to BMO and MLSE taking over in how inconsistent their front office has been and how their community outreach has been weak or misguided trying to go after millennials in liberty village who don't seem to care about football.
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