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  #10201  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 5:00 PM
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Originally Posted by p_xavier View Post
It comes from the North American Baby Boomer selfish attitude, basically fuck you I got mine. Heck, my parents even told me, well we won't take care of you but you won't need to take care of us later. It's especially visible in Québec where some people are HAPPY to leave their parents rot in those place.
Partly, and partly that people are living much longer and, in particular, are surviving with dementia and other severely limiting conditions for a very long time. When my dad’s family had his granny living in the attic back in the 1940s, as was common then, there was little prospect she’d live to be 97 rather than 77 as turned out to be the case.
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  #10202  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 5:18 PM
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This may be a stupid question but when these places are running the corona test on people with the swab and a person tests positive what is the differentiator they are finding that confirms it as coronavirus and not just the common flu? I am wondering if a lot of these tests coming back as positive and where people are not having to go to the hospital may just in fact possibly be the common flu and not coronavirus? I would like to have a better understanding of what is the finding testers are finding that differentiates a positive test from that of a common flu finding.
They're taking samples, amplifying the RNA sequence of the virus, and comparing it to that of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. If it's a match, it's a match. There's no way to confuse SARS-CoV-2 and influenza as the RNA sequences are different.

Ideally for quicker testing response they would like to test and look for specific antibodies which attach to the virus surface, however researchers haven't really been able to identify a unique antibody to test for as of now. This is what a lot of researchers are currently working on.
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  #10203  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 6:10 PM
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Yeah, that was what I was getting at. I can't believe anyone would consider asking for an investigation into corrupt China's coverup "picking fights". To me, that sounds like a CPC sympathizer/puppet.
We got a few of those here.
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  #10204  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 6:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
It's unreasonable to expect the elderly to spend what little time they have left on the planet living in fear. Just think of all the old folks who've died alone in the past few weeks. An absolute tragedy. The unintended consequences of being a supposedly caring and compassionate society, I guess...
I'm not asking the elderly to live in fear, but how about just wearing a mask, obeying the 2m rule or the directional floor markings in supermarkets?
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  #10205  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 8:39 PM
The Macallan The Macallan is offline
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Originally Posted by p_xavier View Post
It comes from the North American Baby Boomer selfish attitude, basically fuck you I got mine. Heck, my parents even told me, well we won't take care of you but you won't need to take care of us later. It's especially visible in Québec where some people are HAPPY to leave their parents rot in those place.
That’s rather sad and I’m not at all disputing your description of your family relationships. But I don’t think you should generalize from your experience
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  #10206  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 8:40 PM
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Manitoba doesn't have any hospitalized COVID-19 patients at the moment ... good news.
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  #10207  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 8:47 PM
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Something like 700 more cases in Quebec just today??
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  #10208  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 8:58 PM
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Getting the impression that neither Quebec or Ontario are going to get to zero cases like it seems will happen pretty much everywhere else in Canada.

If they had held on from opening up for another few weeks they might have but I don't see it happening now.

Going to be interesting for inter-provincial travel...
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  #10209  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by goodgrowth View Post
Getting the impression that neither Quebec or Ontario are going to get to zero cases like it seems will happen pretty much everywhere else in Canada.

If they had held on from opening up for another few weeks they might have but I don't see it happening now.

Going to be interesting for inter-provincial travel...
The approach was to flatten the curve, not an objective to get rid of it?
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  #10210  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by goodgrowth View Post
If they had held on from opening up for another few weeks they might have but I don't see it happening now.
But it's mostly an open question what factors have a big impact on the spread and what don't.

It's possible that a lot of "opening up" won't have any impact on increasing the spread. We didn't see any appreciable difference between places that had open or closed parks, for example, even though a lot of people were convinced that would happen.

It's possible that we could have busy stores and transit but mandatory mask-wearing and lower overall cases than today. It's also looking pretty likely that a lot of this really just comes down to what happens in care homes.
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  #10211  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by p_xavier View Post
The approach was to flatten the curve, not an objective to get rid of it?
True.
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  #10212  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by p_xavier View Post
The approach was to flatten the curve, not an objective to get rid of it?
Eradication didn't seem like a realistic goal a few months ago, now it just might. The Atlantic provinces look pretty close.
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  #10213  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Eradication didn't seem like a realistic goal a few months ago, now it just might. The Atlantic provinces look pretty close.
It's interesting to point out that Atlantic provinces have permitted commercial traffic and essential service workers to enter during all of this.

You could go from Ontario or Quebec to New Brunswick with a truckload of goods, transit through to NS or PEI, or just tell the border guards you had a plan for 14 days of isolation upon arrival (subject to random checks, but not the same as government quarantine in a facility).

Welding apartment doors shut or cutting off all border traffic was not necessary to get the cases down to around 0. I'd also guess that mask wearing in public wasn't ubiquitous in the Atlantic region in March or April.
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  #10214  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Eradication didn't seem like a realistic goal a few months ago, now it just might. The Atlantic provinces look pretty close.
It's looking good. 26 active cases in all of Atlantic Canada. Most are contained at the Northwood facility in Halifax

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  #10215  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
It's interesting to point out that Atlantic provinces have permitted commercial traffic and essential service workers to enter during all of this.

You could go from Ontario or Quebec to New Brunswick with a truckload of goods, transit through to NS or PEI, or just tell the border guards you had a plan for 14 days of isolation upon arrival (subject to random checks, but not the same as government quarantine in a facility).

Welding apartment doors shut or cutting off all border traffic was not necessary to get the cases down to around 0. I'd also guess that mask wearing in public wasn't ubiquitous in the Atlantic region in March or April.
It never really became common here. An infectious disease expert at Dalhousie recently said it wasn't necessary to wear a mask in most circumstances in Atlantic Canada as there is no community spread currently.
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  #10216  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
The data on mortality rates by age cohort is very dramatic but the news media and a lot of people are allergic to talking about it, and can't get past the notion that "some" young people die or some appear to get symptoms like covid toes. In Ontario it may be literally true that 0 teenagers and children have died of covid so far.
If you look into the numbers your math doesn't add up.

A whole lot of people between the ages of 55 and 75 are dying. They happen to be people with a whole lot of clout. Their children also tend to have more clout as they tend to be in mid life.

The economic and social impact this can't be understated.

Not the mention its a recipe for civil strife when people like myself would rather buy a guy than let my parents get sick.

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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Influenza has a fairly dramatic curve for mortality by age.]
This is just complete horseshit.

This is like saying a dozen beer is basically the same at drinking one, because they are the exact same chemical.




Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
It has influenza mortality curves by age at different dates.
And the rates in that 55-70 range are far more substantial than you are letting on.

Not to mention the emotional strain when every other millennial is missing a parent/aunt/uncle come christmas.


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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
One thing worth pointing out is that emerging pandemics sometimes hit young people harder than older people, because older people may have already been exposed to similar-enough pathogens during their lifetime that they can mount an immune response. It's far from guaranteed that 82 year olds will have 1000x the mortality of 18 year olds. That is not what happened in the 1918 influenza pandemic.
This is a little reminder that the first wave killed the old the second wave killed the young because their immune response create health complication
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  #10217  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
Which ones in South Asia, Southeast Asia, and Latin America have better environmental and human rights standards again?
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
At least in China they don’t use children in factories or hang/burn/behead homosexuals......also China is quite strict about not cutting its remaining forests down unlike some nations. Plus China hasn’t defaulted on its debts, unlike some untrustworthy/unstable nations.
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
I’m sure there’s some nations that are better but we’re not talking about a large improvement. Agree with diversifying and expanding trade links but I suspect many of you are guilty of thinking China is somehow much worse than other third world nations. Look at the below, you can trust the Chinese government and police more than you can the Indian, or Mexican, or Brazilian ones.

This is like comparing the person watching kiddy porn with the one making it. China has the economic might to corrupt nations, peoples, and souls.

The rest of the world would be on the path to correcting their corrupt bullshit
if China wasn't leading the front on backwardness.

The amount of dislogic/dishonesty you are using will lead to world war 3.


Your entire argument can be summed up to, "why bother with morality"?
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  #10218  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by LakeLocker View Post
This is like comparing the person watching kiddy porn with the one making it. China has the economic might to corrupt nations, peoples, and souls.

The rest of the world would be on the path to correcting their corrupt bullshit
if China wasn't leading the front on backwardness.

The amount of dislogic/dishonesty you are using will lead to world war 3.


Your entire argument can be summed up to, "why bother with morality"?
When has morality mattered? Canada has a pretty awful history and its actually better than most nations. What happened to the American Indians again? Its not like we've set a good example for the Chinese.

Quote:
Considering that importation of opium into China had been virtually banned by Chinese law, the East India Company established an elaborate trading scheme partially relying on legal markets and partially leveraging illicit ones. British merchants carrying no opium would buy tea in Canton (now known as Guangzhou) on credit, and balance their debts by selling opium at auction in Calcutta. From there, the opium would reach the Chinese coast hidden aboard British ships; it was then smuggled into China by native merchants....

In addition to the drain of silver, by 1838 the number of Chinese opium addicts had grown to between four and twelve million[21] and the Daoguang Emperor demanded action. Officials at the court who advocated legalizing and taxing the trade were defeated by those who advocated suppressing it. The Emperor sent the leader of the hard line faction, Special Imperial Commissioner Lin Zexu, to Canton, where he quickly arrested Chinese opium dealers and summarily demanded that foreign firms turn over their stocks with no compensation. When they refused, Lin stopped trade altogether and placed the foreign residents under virtual siege in their factories, eventually forcing the merchants to surrender their opium. Lin destroyed the confiscated opium, a total of some 1,000 long tons (1,016 t), a process which took 23 days.



In compensation for the opium destroyed by Commissioner Lin British traders demanded compensation from their home government. However, British authorities believed that the Chinese were responsible for payment and sent expeditionary forces from India, which ravaged the Chinese coast in a series of battles and dictated the terms of settlement. The 1842 Treaty of Nanking not only opened the way for further opium trade, but ceded the territory of Hong Kong, unilaterally fixed Chinese tariffs at a low rate, gave Britain most favored nation status and permitted them diplomatic representation. Three million dollars in compensation for debts that the Hong merchants in Canton owed British merchants for the destroyed opium was also to be paid under Article V.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China

Again I'm not saying we should support China. But its hardly a moral argument to be against China. We have no leg to stand on when it comes to morality. The West killed a population 3x greater than Canada in the Western hemisphere alone. China is a strong competitor but their atrocities pale to our own.

Quote:
By 1900 the indigenous population in the Americas declined by more than 80%, and by as much as 98% in some areas. The effects of diseases such as smallpox, measles and cholera during the first century of colonialism contributed greatly to the death toll, while violence, displacement and warfare by colonizers against the Indians contributed to the death toll in subsequent centuries.[26] As detailed in American Philosophy: From Wounded Knee to the Present, "It is also apparent that the shared history of the hemisphere is one framed by the dual tragedies of genocide and slavery, both of which are part of the legacy of the European invasions of the past 500 years. Indigenous people north and south were displaced, died of disease, and were killed by Europeans through slavery, rape, and war. In 1491, about 145 million people lived in the western hemisphere. By 1691, the population of indigenous Americans had declined by 90-95 percent, or by around 130 million people."[27]

According to geographers from University College London, the colonization of the Americas by Europeans killed so many people it resulted in climate change and global cooling.[28] UCL Geography Professor Mark Maslin, one of the co-authors of the study, says the large death toll also boosted the economies of Europe: "the depopulation of the Americas may have inadvertently allowed the Europeans to dominate the world. It also allowed for the Industrial Revolution and for Europeans to continue that domination."[29]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genoci...genous_peoples

Last edited by misher; May 24, 2020 at 12:14 AM.
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  #10219  
Old Posted May 24, 2020, 1:55 AM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
When has morality mattered?

Always has and always will, your entire argument is based on the premise that we haven't progressed, and that we won't progress.





Quote:
Originally Posted by misher View Post
Canada has a pretty awful history and its actually better than most nations. What happened to the American Indians again? Its not like we've set a good example for the Chinese.
So my grandfather was a pedophile therefore I can't be anti pedophile?

Are you being honest with yourself?

I get that the phrase "two wrongs don't make a right", is apparently some racist dog whistle of fair right Aryan nationalist, but that doesn't make two wrongs right.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by misher View Post
Again I'm not saying we should support China. But its hardly a moral argument to be against China.


We have no leg to stand on when it comes to morality. The West killed a population 3x greater than Canada in the Western hemisphere alone. China is a strong competitor but their atrocities pale to our own.
My grandfather was a rapist therefore I'm not allowed to be against rape.

Are you really serious?

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Originally Posted by misher View Post
I get you don't care about morality but can you atleast respect the fact that I can only see your viewpoint as categorically evil?
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  #10220  
Old Posted May 24, 2020, 4:44 AM
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Over in the states, some places that are laxing the rules are seeing spikes again. Our memorial day/weekend will probally yield a bunch of new cases in 1-2 weeks. Miami had to close the beach, places in California are seeing folks not following the rules.

Biggest thing now is opening churches. I mean where does it end. Its like these folks want to have a big wave again.

All fun and games until the Covid man comes to town.
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