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  #5781  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2022, 6:35 PM
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I thought that the latest proposal has only 2.2m sf of office space.
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  #5782  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2022, 6:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The New York Lion View Post
It doesn't matter what Larry tells the press.

Nobody is crazy enough to build a 2.2 million square foot tower on spec.

Not in America, anyway.
Brookfield started the 2 million square foot 2 Manhattan West on spec. Subsequently they penned a deal for 450k square feet with a law firm to anchor the tower.
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  #5783  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2022, 6:47 PM
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You still don’t get it. There’s a reason you don’t see office towers popping up everywhere being built on spec, let alone a nearly 3 msf one. Look around! It doesn’t happen, and the last time something like that did happen was the 50 years ago when the original complex was built. That was thanks to the state, and it still took a couple of decades to fill.
I thought that many supertall office towers are being built on spec outside of Lower Manhattan, like with the skyscraper building boom in Midtown. Fair enough, that is a wrong impression that I had.

But why can't the situation when the original complex was built not happen again? Does the state not have money or are large scale projects financed by the state like that which built the original complex no longer realistic for some reason?

Arguably because of the need to rebuild the WTC after 9/11, it doesn't make sense why the state didn't again step in for the rebuilding of all the WTC towers to be complete by the 20th anniversary of 9/11.

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Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
I thought that the latest proposal has only 2.2m sf of office space.
The original plan for the site was that all the towers would be for office space like for all the original WTC buildings on the 16 acre site (except for 3 WTC). But this seems harder to achieve now on the WTC site.

A hotel taking up part of 2 WTC makes more sense than apartments taking up part of 2 WTC at least.

Last edited by worldtrade2021; Apr 20, 2022 at 7:17 PM.
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  #5784  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2022, 2:54 AM
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I agree.
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  #5785  
Old Posted May 9, 2022, 6:57 AM
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original photo from instagram: vladadzic

Last edited by skcr; May 10, 2022 at 6:49 AM.
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  #5786  
Old Posted May 16, 2022, 1:20 AM
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original photo from instagram: vladadzic
I like it!
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  #5787  
Old Posted May 16, 2022, 4:15 PM
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So that horrible stacked box design is no more right? I sure hope so.
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  #5788  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 12:07 AM
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The lower manhattan skyline looks incomplete without WTC 2. I can only hope it gets built in the 2020's.
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  #5789  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 2:57 AM
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Originally Posted by photoLith View Post
So that horrible stacked box design is no more right? I sure hope so.
Are you referring to BIG's design? I believe (and hope) so.

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The lower manhattan skyline looks incomplete without WTC 2. I can only hope it gets built in the 2020's.
That would be amazing, I wonder what the odds are.
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  #5790  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photoLith View Post
So that horrible stacked box design is no more right? I sure hope so.
As far as I know, it's gone, thankfully.
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  #5791  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2022, 3:41 PM
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why not convert this to residential? there is seemingly no demand for commercial, yet residential demand is booming?

can anyone in the industry help me understand?
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  #5792  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2022, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by giantSwan View Post
why not convert this to residential? there is seemingly no demand for commercial, yet residential demand is booming?

can anyone in the industry help me understand?
I believe it is zoned for commercial only. They did rezone 5 WTC site for residential. It might be due to lack of other sites in lower Manhattan that could accommodate new commercial space, but I agree it should be rezoned to mixed use at the minimum. I think the Grand central area rezoning plans offers a blueprint for future lower Manhattan: When commercial interest revives or become a greater concern, they should rezone some of the smaller older building sites and older downtown blocks for commercial redevelopment like they have done for midtown Grand central. But I don't know if they would have a problem with such rezoning as lower Manhattan could possibly have more historical sites and restrictions.
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  #5793  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2022, 5:27 PM
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Pretty boring compared to Foster's original design, but it flows with the original site plan so I can't really complain.
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  #5794  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2022, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by uaarkson View Post
Pretty boring compared to Foster's original design, but it flows with the original site plan so I can't really complain.
Agreed, but it's so much better than BIG's mess that I'm still happy.

Foster's is nice but I also think this one works better with the rest of the site.
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  #5795  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2022, 6:09 PM
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We still don’t know what the final design is.

Is it this or the model YIMBY showed or something else?

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  #5796  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2022, 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Agreed, but it's so much better than BIG's mess that I'm still happy.

Foster's is nice but I also think this one works better with the rest of the site.
i am probably the only one that liked the boxy big design.

i liked the look of it and i liked the idea of having media studios there.

it made for a better wtc mix than just more boring offices.

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  #5797  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2022, 2:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giantSwan View Post
why not convert this to residential? there is seemingly no demand for commercial, yet residential demand is booming?

can anyone in the industry help me understand?
No demand for commercial? Clearly you haven’t been paying attention.The WTC towers are filled. The new office towers are where demand is strongest. This tower needs a tenant of a certain size to get built, and leases of that size are rarer Downtown than in Midtown. It’s zoned for commercial (office/hotel).
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  #5798  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 12:44 PM
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Not sure if everyone has seen, but Century 21 is planning to return to its Church Street location in 2023, albeit with a smaller retail footprint than before

https://downtownny.com/news/century-...anhattan-2023/

https://www.retailtouchpoints.com/to...l-nyc-location

Quote:
The reopened Cortlandt Street location will span the four main floors of the original downtown space and will offer men’s, women’s and children’s designer apparel, footwear, outerwear, handbags, accessories and fragrances. An “elevated” ecommerce presence will debut at the same time as the brick-and-mortar store. And there will be one other upgrade —the company’s logo will now include “NYC” in a nod to the brand’s Big Apple roots.
How does this tie into 2 WTC? It's possible that the completion of St Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, the PAC and start on construction on 5 WTC would spur more interest in resuming the rebuilding process at 2 WTC (provided a major tenant does indicate interest), but with more of a focus on incorporating even more non-office space (such as hotel space) into the 2 WTC.

From looking at the pictures of the Marriot Hotel at the old WTC site on skyscrapercity, there is a lot of potential here.

The Oculus Beer Garden could also be incorporated as a ground floor eatery inside the new 2 WTC on the eastern side, to pay homage to its original location before the start of construction, while restaurants and amenities similar to the Greenhouse Cafe, Tall Ships Bar & Grill, and the Grand Ballroom could all be incorporated into the hotel space near the middle and top of Two WTC.

The observation deck at the top of One WTC is reminding me more and more of the indoor observation deck setup at the old 2 WTC. It would then be fitting for the top of 2 WTC to house a Windows on the World restaurant like the old 1 WTC, as well as an outdoor observation deck, in a sort of switch from the old twin towers

(indoor Windows on the World Restaurant and antenna on the old 1 WTC, indoor observation deck and outdoor observation deck on the old 2 WTC).

Given the current redesign of 2 WTC to a more environmentally focused design and the seeming pivot of downtown NYC development to more environmentally conscious business (including the Battery Park redevelopment and Center for Climate Solutions on Governors Island plans), it might be possible that the anchor tenant at 2 WTC could be one that specializes in environmental services and financing, rather than a more conventional FIRE (finance, insurance, real estate) or (as in more recent years) TAMI (Technology, Advertising, Media, Information) focus.

Last edited by worldtrade2021; Jun 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM.
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  #5799  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 3:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
i am probably the only one that liked the boxy big design.

i liked the look of it and i liked the idea of having media studios there.

it made for a better wtc mix than just more boring offices.

You're not the only one. BIG's boxy design was very innovative and, to a degree, reflected some of the sensibilities of the original complex in that it maximized space and raw functionality. It would've been massive. But it didn't look like a traditional skyscraper and most people expect them to taper to some degree, and BIG's design did the opposite.

In any case, it had that sober mechanical feel that I really miss downtown, and I think the boxy 2 WTC would have given the skyline some ordered complexity among the other buildings.
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  #5800  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2022, 4:09 AM
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Maybe this is how the demand for new office space can be accommodated: completely converting older Class B office space buildings that aren't completely filled into residential units to make way for newer Class A office space buildings

https://therealdeal.com/2022/05/20/o...upgrade-trend/

https://therealdeal.com/2022/06/21/s...-broad-street/


With it looking likely that St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church will be complete by the end of 2022 and the PAC a few months thereafter in 2023, more attention will probably be focused on the 2 WTC site in the next year, when the only other project on the WTC site under major consideration will be 5 WTC.

During each anniversary of 9/11, there is usually some news or speculation about 2 WTC. It will be interesting to see what news there is of 2 WTC, if at all, during the coming 21st anniversary of 9/11. The overall design of 2 WTC is not guaranteed or final however, until construction has begun. So maybe there will be another design change in the mean time from the one unveiled in February 2022.
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