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  #1  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 4:53 AM
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chris08876 chris08876 is offline
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Why is Denver so Expen$ive?

I was looking at some home prices in the area just out of curiosity, and my goodness, I was very surprised. Why the hell is it so expensive? Its even more pricier (including the suburbs) than bloody NJ. Bloody NJ!!!

I know the city is booming, but its expensive in other categories in general. Transit, child care, food.

Some of the houses are total rip-offs per sq-ft and what you get. Is it the West Coast policies or transplants infecting the place or is there more to why its expensive?

I'll admit I don't really follow Denver (haven't really in the past 2 years), but what the heck happened!
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  #2  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 5:03 AM
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its an alpha outdoor town and white people love them some mountains! 2 hours to the best skiing in north america, 300 days of sunshine a year, low crime, high cultural quotient. its also the only game in town, err, along the front range that is.....its a island of urbanity with with 500 miles of prairie one way and 600 miles of rocks and desert the other. i lived in boulder 25 years ago and it was expensive then.
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  #3  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 5:21 AM
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its an alpha outdoor town and white people love them some mountains! 2 hours to the best skiing in north america,
Whistler is best skiing in NA. Or maybe Jackson Hole.

I don't really get the Denver = mountains! thing because every Western city has mountains in proximity. And they're very barren mountains without the lush/dramatic slopes of the Alps or Andes. It's really more high desert-feeling than the Switzerland feel. And Denver itself is in the boring plains.

But yeah, it seems white folks love Denver. Even from places like MI and OH, lots of young folks flock to Denver. It seems like a pleasant, improving city without any major drawbacks outside of isolation but I don't see the unique appeal.
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  #4  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 10:22 AM
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You get what you pay for?

This concept seems foreign to some people..
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  #5  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Whistler is best skiing in NA. Or maybe Jackson Hole.

I don't really get the Denver = mountains! thing because every Western city has mountains in proximity. And they're very barren mountains without the lush/dramatic slopes of the Alps or Andes. It's really more high desert-feeling than the Switzerland feel. And Denver itself is in the boring plains.

But yeah, it seems white folks love Denver. Even from places like MI and OH, lots of young folks flock to Denver. It seems like a pleasant, improving city without any major drawbacks outside of isolation but I don't see the unique appeal.

Dude. Have you been to Colorado? It's gorgeous. It really doesn't have the barren-appearing mountains you see 9 months out of the year in Southern California.

And I don't think pdx was saying that all of Colorados ski resorts are better than Whistler and Jackson Hole, or even that any of them are. I think he was saying that, taken together, Colorado's 26 ski resorts offer the best skiing on the continent; which is undeniably true.
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  #6  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Whistler is best skiing in NA. Or maybe Jackson Hole.

I don't really get the Denver = mountains! thing because every Western city has mountains in proximity. And they're very barren mountains without the lush/dramatic slopes of the Alps or Andes. It's really more high desert-feeling than the Switzerland feel. And Denver itself is in the boring plains.

But yeah, it seems white folks love Denver. Even from places like MI and OH, lots of young folks flock to Denver. It seems like a pleasant, improving city without any major drawbacks outside of isolation but I don't see the unique appeal.
^This is all subjective.

Colorado is world renown for it's ski resorts and accommodations and Denver/DIA is the gateway to it.

Personal opinion is just that. You might prefer Whistler, others might prefer Vail or Aspen. Personally, I think the Wasatch Range offer the most consistent dry powder conditions that skiers love.

Some winters, California has the most snowpack in the world -- some might consider those resorts during those years have the best in the world.

-----

Back on topic. Denver is expensive because on the whole, every western city is expensive. It also doesn't help that you have an exodus of Californians in search of cheaper cities like Denver.

There are very affordable options in the Denver area. You don't have to live in Boulder, Cherry Creek or Downtown.
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  #7  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pico44 View Post
Dude. Have you been to Colorado? It's gorgeous. It really doesn't have the barren-appearing mountains you see 9 months out of the year in Southern California.

And I don't think pdx was saying that all of Colorados ski resorts are better than Whistler and Jackson Hole, or even that any of them are. I think he was saying that, taken together, Colorado's 26 ski resorts offer the best skiing on the continent; which is undeniably true.
And even in California, where the ski resorts are located, they're not barren desert mountains. People will be skiing until July in some California locations.
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  #8  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 1:53 PM
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whistler = the cheesecake factory of skiing. its big and glitzy but it still has bad snow. all of the west facing PNW resorts do too. remember the vancouver olympics? they had to truck in snow at some events.....anyway, i think denver is having its 15 minute moment. lots of press, lots of people, multiple offers. that hive mind has taken over and people are feeling antsy about the real estate market. portland was like that too 5 years ago.....
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  #9  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Whistler is best skiing in NA. Or maybe Jackson Hole.

I don't really get the Denver = mountains! thing because every Western city has mountains in proximity. And they're very barren mountains without the lush/dramatic slopes of the Alps or Andes. It's really more high desert-feeling than the Switzerland feel. And Denver itself is in the boring plains.

But yeah, it seems white folks love Denver. Even from places like MI and OH, lots of young folks flock to Denver. It seems like a pleasant, improving city without any major drawbacks outside of isolation but I don't see the unique appeal.
i guess if you are searching for that "west coast" feel and want sunny weather but cant afford california, and arizona is too hot, then denver is you next best option. salt lake city has the best proximity to skiing but its still trying to shake its mormon reputation. denver is modern, clean, wild westy and very pretty.
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  #10  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 2:53 PM
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Is Denver really that expensive? How much does it cost to rent an apartment or buy a house in Aurora or Thornton? Or rent somewhere west of I-25? What should our expectations be regarding trendy centrally located neighborhoods?

Also, as you say, you get what you pay for.

Denver is nice in many ways. It has more "big city" stuff than a city like it should, but less of the negatives like high crime, broken politics, bad schools, etc . The neighborhoods and suburbs are clean and have nice parks. It has nice weather, in the sense of having many days where it's 70, sunny, and breezy, and the winters aren't so perpetually gloomy since high plains weather is always changing.

It's hard to describe, but my experience visiting there in person is that it has a really "fresh" vibe to it. Everything seems well-designed or organized, except maybe certain areas near the center with a lot of homeless people.

I think in the era we are living in, there are two kinds of cities that Americans want to live in and are therefore growing quickly

1. Sprawly, sunbelt cities where the focus is on getting a high paying job relative to cost of living and taxes and having lots of stuff. Buy a big house, two big SUV's, etc. That describes Houston, Charlotte, etc. These places can be bland. have nothing to do and contain third-world ghettos with crime rates higher than Chicago, but people moving there don't care if they live in the burbs in a nice school district.

2. There are cities which are progressive enough to have "amenity", which could be natural or cultural or civic. Ideally all three. People who move to these places aren't so sensitive to taxes and cost of living but they do care about safety, commute times, jobs, and quality of life. These are places like Austin, Denver, etc. What people who criticize these places for their lack of authenticity or true urbanism don't understand is that what really matters is how these places make those things more accessible to the average person and come with less of the bad stuff that people in places like NYC have to put up with.

Then there's cities that people just don't want to live in and are moving away from. These are places that have no amenity and still expensive and have a low quality of life. This is New Jersey and Connecticut to a T. Really high taxes which don't seem to result in anything of value being returned to the taxpayer nor even those less fortunate. Really high cost of living for a place which is ugly and uninteresting. Severely long commute times. The issue of choosing between bad public schools or expensive private schools(choosing a catholic school when you don't attend church anymore = weird).. It's not a surprise domestic migration from these places is very high.
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  #11  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 3:11 PM
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I fail to see what quality of life change there is in Denver, does Colorado offer universal healthcare and subsidized higher education? Otherwise, you're living in some crappy detached home and commuting on the highway just like everybody else in the united states. White middle class have the same standard of living basically everywhere they can find decent jobs except differences in cost and a few amenities. Also Denver has horrible weather, their temperature fluctuations are worse than anything you'd find in even Minnesota. Heavy snow in may is not uncommon for them at all.

A city that's mostly white and uncontroversial in the US will always be put on a pedestal. And Denver is not diverse enough to muddle the stats.
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  #12  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 4:19 PM
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Denver has horrible weather?
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  #13  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 4:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Whistler is best skiing in NA. Or maybe Jackson Hole.

I don't really get the Denver = mountains! thing because every Western city has mountains in proximity. And they're very barren mountains without the lush/dramatic slopes of the Alps or Andes. It's really more high desert-feeling than the Switzerland feel. And Denver itself is in the boring plains.

But yeah, it seems white folks love Denver. Even from places like MI and OH, lots of young folks flock to Denver. It seems like a pleasant, improving city without any major drawbacks outside of isolation but I don't see the unique appeal.
You obviously don't ski or board if you think Whistler is the best skiing in NA. OMG it has some of the worst quality snow. It is beautiful but nobody who ski's or boards would argue it is the best in NA.
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  #14  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 4:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Whistler is best skiing in NA. Or maybe Jackson Hole.

I don't really get the Denver = mountains! thing because every Western city has mountains in proximity. And they're very barren mountains without the lush/dramatic slopes of the Alps or Andes. It's really more high desert-feeling than the Switzerland feel. And Denver itself is in the boring plains.

But yeah, it seems white folks love Denver. Even from places like MI and OH, lots of young folks flock to Denver. It seems like a pleasant, improving city without any major drawbacks outside of isolation but I don't see the unique appeal.
Who are you? You have to be kidding or trolling. Many of the Colorado mountain ranges are lush and green and outright gorgeous. Having spent a lot of time skiing in Colorado and visiting in the summer to places like Aspen, Telluride, Steamboat, Crested Butte, Vail etc. I can confirm it is pretty spectacular scenery. I will tell you the mountains closest to Denver are not as pretty as when you get further West.
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  #15  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 4:57 PM
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And even in California, where the ski resorts are located, they're not barren desert mountains. People will be skiing until July in some California locations.
Just skied Heavenly last weekend and the snow is melting very fast. Squaw and Mammoth should be open but it has been very warm. I hope to ski over memorial day weekend but it probably isn't going to be all that great.
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  #16  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 5:13 PM
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How's the job market?

Just taking a quick look, 1144 looks like the only major office tower constructed since 2000. Obviously that's not a comprehensive proxy for white-collar job growth, but it's also known as an energy town (and other such places have taken a beating in the last few years).

I can't imagine this mass white-hipster migration is all to work in legal weed dispensaries.
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  #17  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 6:23 PM
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I was not particularly impressed by the city amenities of Denver. The small commercial downtown area is cute, but not very big.Tthe transit system is disjointed (kind of like LA) and not very efficient/direct (although the train from the airport is nice). Maybe these will change in the future as it grows, but why didn't they just build a light rail line along Colfax, for example?

The natural amenities on the other hand are superb (although the traffic jam heading into the mountains on weekend mornings is hilarious).
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  #18  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 7:28 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
I was looking at some home prices in the area just out of curiosity, and my goodness, I was very surprised. Why the hell is it so expensive? Its even more pricier (including the suburbs) than bloody NJ. Bloody NJ!!!
What part of town are you looking at? I'm seeing a ton of listings for 3b/2b SFHs in the $300-400k range. This is just a few of miles from downtown. In nicer neighborhoods it looks like there is a healthy market for $million+ homes. Prices seem reasonable overall.
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  #19  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 8:03 PM
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Denver has horrible weather?
Denver's climate is more "high desert" than "great plains." It only gets about 15 inches of rainfall per year, just barely more than LA. It's a cool, dry and mostly barren place. The area around the airport gives you a good idea of Denver's natural landscape: https://goo.gl/maps/Fh6yNGLSPuau4QCx9

Thankfully, that's just the immediate area around Denver. You don't have to go far to experience something completely different. Just an hour outside of town you can find yourself in a lost world of misty pine forests and secret waterfalls. And you're only 5-6 hours from hot desert like Moab or Albuquerque. Even if the city itself doesn't have the best weather, outdoorsy types will appreciate the diversity of landscapes and climates that you have access to within a days drive.
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  #20  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 8:46 PM
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Originally Posted by The North One View Post
A city that's mostly white and uncontroversial in the US will always be put on a pedestal. And Denver is not diverse enough to muddle the stats.
Denver (city limits) 2010:

52.2% non-Hispanic white
10.2% African American
3.4% Asian American
31.8% Hispanic (of any race)
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FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
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ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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