[Halifax] The Sister Sites | 2X29 m | 2X9 floors | Completed

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

Believe it or not their out there. I know several people in their 20's who prefer country living. I don't question them, but I certainly don't understand the appeal. The valley for instance is a nice place to visit but I would never want to live there.

Oh I realise they're out there. But my god... they're part of a very tiny minority, I suspect.

It's not just employment that's bringing youth to cities, it's also what's being glorified on television.

[spaustin]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Absolutely,
Also, there are certainly people our age who choose the suburban lifestyle, for example, if they drive and have kids it's pretty much a no-brainer in my experience.

I wouldn't say that at all. The move these days for many is to stay Downtown if you can afford it. It's sending a lot of young families to the North End and Downtown Dartmouth. My little one block of Tulip Street has like 16 kids on it. If there's the opportunity to buy a house Downtown, many in the younger generation will stay and raise kids Downtown. Getting families into condos though... that's still going to be a tough sell.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Oh I realise they're out there. But my god... they're part of a very tiny minority, I suspect.

Not really. As a current youth who is urban-oriented I'd say there's quite a few that prefer the suburbs and small-towns. A lot of my friends and family that live in Nova Scotia right now are trying to find a place in the suburbs especially the ones that own cars. Most currently live in the urban area but that is just because its generally cheaper, closer to school, and not car dependent.

Personally I love living in the urban core. My place near North&Robie was perfect for me and my new place in Bankview (Calgary) is comparable. Of course I'm early 20's with no kids, no car, and a tight budget so something like North Downtown was great (walking distance to all necessities, bike or one bus to friends/family, and stumbling distance from Downtown). I always hated growing up in the suburbs and right now I'd say my ideal living spot would be in the West Commons area (Clifton or Hunter Streets).

And, Wishblade, I lived in Lawrencetown (Annapolis) for a few months and It's actually quite nice. There isn't a lot of stores or entertainment per say but with King's Transit getting necessities was easy and it was a great place for outdoors type people with great hiking areas and the Valley Rails-Trails path. It wasn't perfect for me but I got into really good shape and fell in love with the beauty of the Valley.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by spaustin

I wouldn't say that at all. The move these days for many is to stay Downtown if you can afford it. It's sending a lot of young families to the North End and Downtown Dartmouth. My little one block of Tulip Street has like 16 kids on it. If there's the opportunity to buy a house Downtown, many in the younger generation will stay and raise kids Downtown. Getting families into condos though... that's still going to be a tough sell.

I just meant that in terms of people I grew up with; most who are still single/in relatively casual relationships tend to live downtown, while those who are engaged/married/with children all live in the suburbs. I can't say with too much confidence whether this is the rule or the exception.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Oh I realise they're out there. But my god... they're part of a very tiny minority, I suspect.

It's not just employment that's bringing youth to cities, it's also what's being glorified on television.

Maybe a minority, but definitely not a tiny one. About 3/4 of BC's population lives in urban areas, including Kelowna and Kamloops which are more like suburban frontier towns. This leaves about 1,000,000 people who live in "truly" rural BC, and I would guess that about 9/10 of those people could not be convinced to move to a city of >20,000 unless they absolutely had to. Even some places that are considered part of the Vancouver area, like Abbottsford, Langley, and Bowen Island seem to have a much more rural than urban "outlook" (at the individual level).

And that's just BC. About 60% of NL's population is rural, about 30% of Alberta (and again, my impression is that the rural attitude permeates Calgary to some extent, and the suburban one, Edmonton, although I'm not sure how accurate this is). And then there's about 90% of Northern Ontario, and even many parts of Southern Ontario between all the cities. And Cape Breton. And PEI. And rural Quebec. And the territories, for that matter. So those who prefer the rural lifestyle may be a minority, but if you added up all of the individual people, you'd probably get some surprisingly big numbers.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Hali87

And that's just BC. About 60% of NL's population is rural, about 30% of Alberta (and again, my impression is that the rural attitude permeates Calgary to some extent, and the suburban one, Edmonton, although I'm not sure how accurate this is).

I think your basically correct. From my relatively short time here in Calgary I can say the lifestyle here is more "rustic" than in the Maritimes. People here don't think of the urban area having the fun instead they look to the mountains and surrounding towns for things to do. In Halifax it is more split. People down home think of both the rural and urban areas having entertainment and will spend time in both taking in the Casino and waterfront one weekend, and going to Wentworth the next weekend.

[Drybrain]

Yeah, there are lots of young people who are indifferent/hostile to cities. When I lived in Edmonton, loads of my friends, especially those who grew up in the interior of B.C. or rural Alberta, hated the city. (Most of them were there strictly for school.)

Others were entirely the opposite, and ended up moving to Calgary, Toronto, Montreal, and in a couple of cases, Halifax.

My own family is a good example--I'm a city dweller, but my 26-year-old sister, while not hostile to city living, is perfectly happy and comfortable in the same sort of suburb where we grew up.

It also seems, at least in the Toronto area, that there's a sort of city-suburb swap happening based on ethnicity. Toronto's downtown immigrant neighbourhoods (Little Italy, Little India, Little Portugal, etc.) are increasingly empty of those ethnic groups, except the elders. Their children see the inner-city neighbourhoods they grew up in as something to escape, and are leaving for Mississauga, Brampton, Thornhill, etc. Meanwhile, young, well-off white people, who grew up in the suburbs, are moving into those formerly immigrant-occupied neighbourhoods.

Having said all that, it IS true that far more are choosing an urban lifestyle than, say, ten or certainly 20 years ago. Hopefully that continues to increase.

[halifaxboyns]

From my personal experience, after growing up in what was a 60's suburban neighbourhood, when I went to university downtown opened up for me. I loved being in the heart of everything and when I got out on my own, I couldn't imagine living anywhere else.

When I moved to Fort McMurray, that changed because I had to live where I could afford and where there was room - which was the burbs. But when I moved to Calgary, I was able to afford and live in Downtown again and I do. The only problem is that downtown is pretty dead at night, but I find things to do.

Now that I've had the living in downtown experience, I wouldn't really give it up. Although I think now with my career and what not, I'd try to find a townhouse/condo in a corridor like Quinpool or Agricola that is up and coming. Get in cheap and watch the value rise as more people move in versus going right into a mainstream area like Spring Garden Road.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Suburbs are wack... and the saddest part is all the responsible people who live close to downtown subsidize these people on a large scale.

Halifax needs to raise taxes in the burbs, stop the sprawl.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

From my personal experience, after growing up in what was a 60's suburban neighbourhood, when I went to university downtown opened up for me. I loved being in the heart of everything and when I got out on my own, I couldn't imagine living anywhere else.

When I moved to Fort McMurray, that changed because I had to live where I could afford and where there was room - which was the burbs. But when I moved to Calgary, I was able to afford and live in Downtown again and I do. The only problem is that downtown is pretty dead at night, but I find things to do.

Now that I've had the living in downtown experience, I wouldn't really give it up. Although I think now with my career and what not, I'd try to find a townhouse/condo in a corridor like Quinpool or Agricola that is up and coming. Get in cheap and watch the value rise as more people move in versus going right into a mainstream area like Spring Garden Road.

I consider Quinpool and Agricola natural extensions of downtown. They need to reset the borders of downtown to be larger.

There needs to be 15-20 story buildings on the east part of Quinpool that step down into the neighborhood.

Excited to see the proposal in the lot next to Atlantica.

[SekishikiMeikaiHa]

A last look at the parking lots:

[mcmcclassic]

I look forward to seeing this one rise from my unit in Park Vic (14th floor).

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I consider Quinpool and Agricola natural extensions of downtown. They need to reset the borders of downtown to be larger.

There needs to be 15-20 story buildings on the east part of Quinpool that step down into the neighborhood.

Excited to see the proposal in the lot next to Atlantica.

I don't think I agree with changing the borders of downtown (but agree on the 1520 storey building on Quinpool). We recently had an influx of planners at work and one of our veteran planners was giving a presentation on the community association system here in Calgary, how it started, their involvement in the planning system etc. One thing that is amazing about Calgary (and to the same extent Edmonton) is how well defined each neighbourhood/community is in both cities. More than that, how well involved the community typically is in setting up programs and creating a coherent community association, in each community.

If you think - Calgary has over 100 communities and with the exception of a few that are just starting out, most inner city communities have a very well defined community association - often with a hall, programs and even a planning community. Halifax doesn't have that so much - the neighbourhood names are well defined and there isn't that sense of neighbourhood importance. I'll give you an example: I had no idea that the area where CFB Windsor Park was located was actually a neighbourhood called Catamaran. Or that the neighbourhood on the otherside was called Falkland. I think that's something that's lacking to a certain degree in HRM.

So I'd like to keep the lines where they are, maybe make some minor changes but leave it for the most part and start developing that sense of community. Bing maps calls Quinpool the Quinpool District - certainly an interesting name. But I'd like to see more of that community identity coming out over time...

[someone123]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I had no idea that the area where CFB Windsor Park was located was actually a neighbourhood called Catamaran. Or that the neighbourhood on the otherside was called Falkland. I think that's something that's lacking to a certain degree in HRM.

I agree. I think it would be good to identify different neighbourhoods more clearly and also plan for them to each have some sort of focal point with small-scale community amenities and commercial development so everybody has something within walking distance. This won't happen immediately in every neighbourhood but it can be a longer term planning goal, even out in the suburbs. Those crappy strip malls and lowrise apartment parking lots have development potential.

This was actually related to part of Waye Mason's platform. He correctly pointed out that HRM focuses too much on large scale stuff like the Canada Games centre or Bedford quadruple ice rink while ignoring the smaller neighbourhood amenities. Not everybody can drive 10-20 minutes to go to these things (people who don't have cars, kids, some seniors, and the disabled; this is like 30% or more of the city!) and in any case the city is supposedly trying to get people out of their cars. The old council paid lip service to transit, the environment, and the downtown, but I don't think many of them really "got" it. Hopefully the new council will make better decisions.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by SekishikiMeikaiHa

A last look at the parking lots:

Thanks for the update.

Halifax is finally coming together... no thanks to the obstructionists.

Very excited to come back and see the city. Halifax was already beautiful and now its approaching world class... it may be more attractive than many european cities and is definitely the most attractive city for its size in Canada.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Thanks for the update.

Halifax is finally coming together... no thanks to the obstructionists.

Very excited to come back and see the city. Halifax was already beautiful and now its approaching world class... it may be more attractive than many european cities and is definitely the most attractive city for its size in Canada.

It seems to me that they are loosing their power...which is fantastic. The more they yell, the less they are heard.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

I agree. I think it would be good to identify different neighbourhoods more clearly and also plan for them to each have some sort of focal point with small-scale community amenities and commercial development so everybody has something within walking distance. This won't happen immediately in every neighbourhood but it can be a longer term planning goal, even out in the suburbs. Those crappy strip malls and lowrise apartment parking lots have development potential.

This was actually related to part of Waye Mason's platform. He correctly pointed out that HRM focuses too much on large scale stuff like the Canada Games centre or Bedford quadruple ice rink while ignoring the smaller neighbourhood amenities. Not everybody can drive 10-20 minutes to go to these things (people who don't have cars, kids, some seniors, and the disabled; this is like 30% or more of the city!) and in any case the city is supposedly trying to get people out of their cars. The old council paid lip service to transit, the environment, and the downtown, but I don't think many of them really "got" it. Hopefully the new council will make better decisions.

Totally agree and I forgot about that being in his platform. I have to agree, I think there is too much focus on the big stuff and not enough neighbourhood planning. It's one thing to get a development agreement done for a big massive chunk of land like Bedford West, but it's the next phase - the cells of the neighbourhood that is just as important.

I think Calgary (and Edmonton) is unique in this model, although I don't know enough about other cities to be able to say that there aren't similar things around Canada. But to have these facilities and this community identity (and pride) is quite interesting. I think if HRM had that, you wouldn't see as much graffiti and there would be more sense of civic pride. Might be an interesting thing to start up - get council to approve $50k to get some community associations started up in the regional centre? The only risk of course, is that they turn into nothing more than NIMBY groups against development (like some of the CA's here in Calgary).

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

This was actually related to part of Waye Mason's platform. He correctly pointed out that HRM focuses too much on large scale stuff like the Canada Games centre or Bedford quadruple ice rink while ignoring the smaller neighbourhood amenities. Not everybody can drive 10-20 minutes to go to these things (people who don't have cars, kids, some seniors, and the disabled; this is like 30% or more of the city!) and in any case the city is supposedly trying to get people out of their cars. The old council paid lip service to transit, the environment, and the downtown, but I don't think many of them really "got" it. Hopefully the new council will make better decisions.

That makes a very strong argument against our new gold-plated designer library. But Mason is a supporter of that. Methinks he is trying to play both sides of the argument like any good politico.

[cormiermax]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That makes a very strong argument against our new gold-plated designer library. But Mason is a supporter of that. Methinks he is trying to play both sides of the argument like any good politico.

Would you prefer an ugly cheap library in the centre of our city?

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I think Calgary (and Edmonton) is unique in this model, although I don't know enough about other cities to be able to say that there aren't similar things around Canada.

I'm not sure if this would include things like community halls in each community, etc. but Toronto definitely is like that, as are Montreal and Vancouver to some degree (although Vancouver seems to be more commonly defined by "corridors" than "neighbourhoods"). Very strictly defined neighbourhoods, which are in many cases self-sufficient. I definitely think HRM needs to engage the community to decide on neighbourhood names and their boundaries etc, and from there work to make sure that each identified neighbourhood has at least some degree of self sufficiency. I think I remember Waye Mason starting a thread along these lines sometime ago actually.

Something that I can't quite wrap my head around is that pretty much everyone agrees that the Peninsula has a North End, South End, West End and Downtown, but everyone also has widely varying definitions of where each of these places are. Same goes for the Mainland,where are the dividing lines between Spryfield, Armdale, Dutch Village*, Fairview, Clayton Park, Clayton Park West*, Rockingham, Wedgewood? *Do these even count as separate neighbourhoods? Converseley, if you go to Toronto, pretty much anyone can tell you exactly where Cabbagetown, Regent Park, Kensington Market, Leaside, etc. are.