CHICAGO | River Point | 730 FT | 52 FLOORS - Page 12

BorisMolotov · #**221** Posted **Jul 13, 2007, 6:18 PM**

Yay! More potential supertall proposals! I think Chicago may have more rumored supertalls (I can think of at least five: Wolf Point, now thanks to Pandemonious, This 94-story one, The Carley one by the NBC tower, the one in Franklin Point, and the one in Central Station.) than any other city, except possibly Dubai.

Pandemonious · #**222** Posted **Jul 13, 2007, 6:55 PM**

^Well, there was an article posted about Wolf Point just a few weeks ago, saying that Hines and the Kennedy's are partnering up for it.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_n19115268

I think Hines being involved is actually sort of unfortunate, because it is unlikely that Hines will go taller than Sears Tower, or even JHC/AON.. they are too stuck in their ~50 story max economy office tower mindset. Thats not to say we may not see something tall there, I just think this site deserves no less than to go taller then Sears. It has the best views of perhaps any site in the entire city. Pretty much 360 degrees unobstructed above ~250'. Personally, I'd like to see a large sloped park leading down to the river on the east half of the site, a marina on the west side (the west part of the site is pretty isolated because of Apparel Center), with a supertower in the center of the site set back slightly from the river and aligned with the Apparel Center.

200 N Riverside is going to have a huge impact on the skyline, especially viewed from coming in on the expressway. Also, the riverwalk is MUCH needed over there, as now that area is a complete wasteland.

SamInTheLoop · #**223** Posted **Jul 13, 2007, 7:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandemonious

Assuming the drawing I saw of this tower is correct, the curve of the building is very subtle (far more subtle then 333 W Wacker) and bows outward by only ~12 feet. Also, I have good news that the tower is symmetrical, so BOTH sides will be curved, and we won't be left with a Torre Mayor style tower.

Also, keep the site across the river from this in mind... as I have a feeling it may not be sitting empty by 2010.

Great news on the "back side" of 200 Riverside, and Wolf Point!! Pandemonious - you rock!!

honte · #**224** Posted **Jul 13, 2007, 7:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandemonious

I think Hines being involved is actually sort of unfortunate, because it is unlikely that Hines will go taller than Sears Tower, or even JHC/AON.. they are too stuck in their ~50 story max economy office tower mindset.

My thoughts exactly.

In any case, I don't think that partnership has been finalized. I am crossing my fingers that they are not the ones to develop Wolf Point. I'd even rather see Trump partner with them (which is a rumor I have also heard from a credible source in the past).

nomarandlee · #**225** Posted **Jul 13, 2007, 8:07 PM**

My question is does Wolf Point make more sense as a hotel/residential or as office building?

Pandemonious · #**226** Posted **Jul 13, 2007, 8:13 PM**

I tend to think this site screams the need for true mixed use, with possibly office, condo, rental, and hotel all in there.

SamInTheLoop · #**227** Posted **Jul 14, 2007, 5:33 PM**

^ 1 hotel/residential tower and 1 office tower perhaps?

BorisMolotov · #**228** Posted **Jul 14, 2007, 7:49 PM**

Well I don't think a hotel would really work, as there's the one in the Apparel Center. But I definitely think that office towards the bottom and residential on the top would work great. Since the views are probably the best in the city, I think that no matter what goes there would sell great.

Lecom · #**229** Posted **Jul 14, 2007, 7:51 PM**

I envy Chicago's slew of 700+ foot projects. New York may have amazing projects on the drawing boards, but construction-wise the city seems to be entering a temporary hiatus as BOFA nears completion, which will leave the WTC as pretty much the only major construction at this time.

Alliance · #**230** Posted **Jul 15, 2007, 3:28 AM**

Thanks. We're obviously very excited.

Marcu · #**231** Posted **Jul 15, 2007, 4:06 PM**

So long as it's something that completely block views of apparel center from the river and it's at least 800 feet I'm fine with it. It doesn't have to be a supertall. It would be nice, but if it's a good design and in the 800ft range we'd all live.

SamInTheLoop · #**232** Posted **Jul 15, 2007, 6:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BorisMolotov

Well I don't think a hotel would really work, as there's the one in the Apparel Center. But I definitely think that office towards the bottom and residential on the top would work great. Since the views are probably the best in the city, I think that no matter what goes there would sell great.

I'm not so sure - I think this area of River North could actually absorb 2 or 3 more hotels, and I definitely don't think a Holiday Inn is truly satisfying the depth and breadth of underlying potential demand...

SamInTheLoop · #**233** Posted **Jul 15, 2007, 7:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by honte

My thoughts exactly.

In any case, I don't think that partnership has been finalized. I am crossing my fingers that they are not the ones to develop Wolf Point. I'd even rather see Trump partner with them (which is a rumor I have also heard from a credible source in the past).

Hmmm - Trump again.....what are the chances Chicago would luck out (assuming that really is not a gold finish on the column up the river!) twice (in a row) with Trump-developed projects?!

The man always scares me! Maybe I'm being too risk-adverse, but I think I'll take Hines...

BorisMolotov · #**234** Posted **Jul 15, 2007, 8:32 PM**

^ I think that this would be a great spot for a starchitect. I mean, there's not many buildings in Chicago, other than the CS, I would be interested to see what Norman Foster would do here.

ardecila · #**235** Posted **Jul 16, 2007, 12:00 AM**

Don't forget the Pritzker Pavilion/BP Bridge.

Alliance · #**236** Posted **Jul 16, 2007, 3:04 AM**

Anyhting at Wolf Point under 1500 feet would be a disappoitment for me in the height dimension. Honestly, I'm still a little hung up at 700 ft for this structure.

Heinz needs to understand the importance of that site if they plan to play a role in that project and get out of this 50 story office tower ditch.

brett7three · #**237** Posted **Jul 16, 2007, 11:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alliance

Anyhting at Wolf Point under 1500 feet would be a disappoitment for me in the height dimension. Honestly, I'm still a little hung up at 700 ft for this structure.

Heinz needs to understand the importance of that site if they plan to play a role in that project and get out of this 50 story office tower ditch.

Is there any way to petition or show strong support for "a taller building" for this site? (Some ideas)

1) Email campaign - owner / developer
2) Letter writing campaign - owner / developer
3) Letters to the editor (local papers - Blair Kamin)
4) Contacting the city
5) Blogs
6) Attracting an anchor tenant that makes it more economically feasible to build high

Curious what your thoughts are on how we might help on the outside...

Obviously, market forces will be the final factor here. It seems that using the possibility of the Olympics in Chicago, along with support from the city and lots of "buzz" in the papers, etc. can do a lot for a site like this.

Just look at all the revisions that the spire went through after the initial design was deemed economically disadvantageous. I have to believe that the new designs were influenced heavily by city, neighborhood and public support or lack thereof for the design. Outcry against designs like the flat-top "twizzler" had to be a major influence as to why they are not final designs.

Eventually, market forces and design settled on the beauty we have right now.

Perhaps the city should realize that, like the Chicago Spire, a starchitect-designed supertall in this location will probably increase our chances of being awarded the Olympics through an increase in global publicity for the city.

I'll stop now, to avoid going in too many directions...

... What are your thoughts? How can WE improve the chances of the right building being built here? What about the city?

Norsider · #**238** Posted **Jul 16, 2007, 12:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BorisMolotov

Well I don't think a hotel would really work, as there's the one in the Apparel Center. But I definitely think that office towards the bottom and residential on the top would work great. Since the views are probably the best in the city, I think that no matter what goes there would sell great.

Office on bottom and residential on top will not be happening. That is a guarantee. I'd say if Hines is involved, there's about a greater chance that the building will be Class A office than anything else. I think a hotel might work, but the view space in that building will be so killer that I can't imagine someone turning down the chance to build an office building there if the circumstance are right (i.e. another large tenant in old space willing to move and anchor a new project).

ardecila · #**239** Posted **Jul 17, 2007, 8:48 AM**

The thing is, can Chicago absorb that much office space right now?

The CME/CBOT merger may create some office-sector growth, but we don't know yet.

Alliance · #**240** Posted **Jul 17, 2007, 9:47 AM**

Nah, Hinez needs to get out of thier box. I'm sure there will be office, but they could included riverwalk, retail, hotel, and residential.

I feel we need another developer. One who I trust more to handle this site.