Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[ciudad_del_norte]

Originally Posted by esquire

Pro tip: Always order Vietnamese food using the numbers in the menu!

Yes! My favorite neighbourhood phở place really struggles with orders that are not in Vietnamese, or by number.

[SignalHillHiker]

VICE finally did us.

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/the-v...oundlander-675

People talk different in every bay, cove, and public housing ghetto scattered across Greater Sin Jawns. It's like history dropped a character from a Shakespeare play into 8,000 different coves, cut them off from the outside world and let them fuck their cousins for a while. Depending on where you're from you might say "you" or "youse" or "ye" or "piss ass" in place of the general second person pronoun. Up in Catalina they pronounce the word "boil" all queer and my crowd in Grand Falls would consider this a "mega scald" on baywops everywhere. Everyone talks funny compared to everyone else and it's fucking super.

There's certain universals, though. "Whaddyat?" is a universal greeting and also works pretty good as a pickup line if you have the charm to pull it off (HINT: if you have to ask, you don't). Also, Newfoundlanders all swear religiously. Like, both constantly and in Biblical vernacular. Everyone knows "Lord Thundering Jesus" but with a little effort you can turn basically any prayer and/or minor Old Testament prophet into a curse. "Jumping Jesus," "Gentle Blessed Mary Mother of God" and "Ever Beloved Elisha, Balding Bear-Fucker" all work.

"Christ" and "fuck" are also more or less interchangeable, e.g. "what the fucking Christ" or "what the Christing fuck." Basically just drop the word fuck anywhere you can in a sentence and it's golden. Bay Etiquette also demands you end every declarative statement with 'wha', like "she's colder out tonight than a nun's cunt, wha?"

Mostly though—and I can't stress this enough—if you aren't from Newfoundland, you probably can't speak like a Newfoundlander, so save yourself the embarrassment. Hearing some aging yuppie from southern Ontario come in trying to articulate a stock tourist phrase like, "How's she getting on, me old cock," or whatever else they charge you to recite at a Screech-In on George Street is like nails on a chalkboard. Unless you're Russell Crowe, do not attempt. Just sit back and drink in the full linguistic beauty of our bargain-bin Celtic lilt and tendency to pronounce the letter "H" in random places.

I know a lot of Canadians think they're hard drinkers, but they're really not. People in the rest of Canada think a casual half case on a Friday night is hard drinking. Buddy. Please. A half case is warm-up drinking. A half case is what you serve children and the elderly.

If you want to go pro, you need a lot of practice. Most Newfoundlanders start their training early. A couple buddies of mine started getting shitfaced on the regular in the sixth grade. That's pretty young, but by grade nine, getting wasted behind the Ultramar or in the woods by The Gazebo (every town has The Gazebo) is par for the course. This is good because you get all the amateur mistakes out of the way early, like being such a state that you shit yourself in public or projectile vomit Sour Puss all over your buddy's shed because you coughed on a blunt. God forbid you end up like one of the Pentecostal kids who turn 19, go savage, and pass out in the bathroom of a St. John's strip club after their second Bacardi Breezer.

You have to keep it fun, though. If you're a really obnoxious drunk and keep having the fuck beat out of you downtown, or you're at it all the time just to get through the day, you should probably stop. But if you can handle it, go to town. One of the most magical nights I ever had in St. John's was passing around a flask of Old Sam on top of the Supreme Court while we were blitzed out of our minds on hash. Newfoundland is best experienced half in the bag.

Consider, first, the cultural background of the average Newfoundlander. Take every centuries-old stereotype you have about sailors, put them on a cold rock in the middle of the ocean and make them really, really poor. Then pile on all the charming quirks of Newfoundland history—"the first idiot in uniform who shows up in the cove with a boat gets supreme power" as a system of government, or the British Empire's love of feeding bastard Irishmen like us to German machine-guns—and let it simmer for a few generations. Throw in a heroic level of alcohol consumption and you're good to fucking go.

Obviously it's a gross stereotype that all Newfoundlanders go around starting fights. We'll finish a fight if you start one, but only skeets go around starting fights. Skeets are the distinctly Newfoundland variety of white trash hicks. The b'ys in Fox racing jackets hanging around outside Tim Hortons blasting AC/DC from their trucks at 2 AM? Definitely skeets. Dude with a heart tattoo that says "NAN" on his forearm, whacked out of his mind on oxys, holding up Needs Convenience with a butter knife? Mega skeet. Skeets will fuck you up.

And it's not just the dudes. We were waiting around for a cab by Trinity Pub on George one night and they were kicking some tiny girl out of the bar and my buddy was like, "Are you okay?" and she flipped her shit and kicked him in the chest down two flights of stone stairs. Nonsense. As I was saying, some people just can't handle their liquor. Or coke, or whatever.

Basically, the key to fighting—or generally just living—like a Newfoundlander is to not give a fuck. Do not give a good God damn. Life in Newfoundland is a black comedy. The weather is terrible, the jobs blow (assuming you're lucky enough to have one), there has literally never been a good government in 500 years, we hunted the cod and the Beothuk to extinction, and everyone upalong still thinks we're a fucking punchline. So have a laugh on the way to the grave. What does it matter how you talk or drink or fuck if you're having a time? We were mastering absurdism before Camus was even a glimmer in his father's eye.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Yeah, the way I say it, Kwehbeck. I've never heard it pronounced any other way in English.

That's because that's the correct pronunciation in English. We don't say "Frahhnce" either. Nor, for that matter, do Frenchmen say "London" in a clipped Oxbridge way, right in the middle of a French sentence referring to the British capital. This would all be quite silly (and would probably be political in motivation, much as progressive friends of my generation used to make a big show of pronouncing "Nicaragua" in what they imagined to be the rather melodramatic tone of a native Spanish speaker -- in solidarity with the Sandinistas or whatever the cause du jour was.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Andy6

That's because that's the correct pronunciation in English. We don't say "Frahhnce" either. Nor, for that matter, do Frenchmen say "London" in a clipped Oxbridge way, right in the middle of a French sentence referring to the British capital. This would all be quite silly (and would probably be political in motivation, much as progressive friends of my generation used to make a big show of pronouncing "Nicaragua" in what they imagined to be the rather melodramatic tone of a native Spanish speaker -- in solidarity with the Sandinistas or whatever the cause du jour was.)

Yeah but... the correct English pronunciation seems to be kuh-bec not kwuh-bec. That's the way all Canadian and Quebec government officials from the GG and PM on down seem to say it in English.

And in case anybody was afraid of such things, it's not "pandering" to Quebec or francophones, as it's not the same as the French pronunciation at all.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah but... the correct English pronunciation seems to be kuh-bec not kwuh-bec. That's the way all Canadian and Quebec government officials from the GG and PM on down seem to say it in English.

And in case anybody was afraid of such things, it's not "pandering" to Quebec or francophones, as it's not the same as the French pronunciation at all.

I can't say that "Kuh-bec" is "wrong" (at least one on-line pronunciation site gives it as the correct pronunciation) but "Kwuh-bec" (or Kweh-bec, I think that represents the same pronunciation) seems more logical by analogy to other words that start with "que" (eg quest, queer, Quentin). On the other hand, when I searched for "Oxford Quebec pronunciation" on-line, the pronunciation is given as "Kwih-bec".

Given the ease with which soft vowels can shift, I am going to conclude that "Kweh-bec", "Kwuh-bec" and "Kwih-bec" are basically the same pronunciation and that "Kuh-bec" is also acceptable. I wonder if there is a prevailing English pronunciation among Anglo-Quebeckers? The problem with your citing Harper and Johnston is that both are Ontarians.

I blame Quebec for its failure to establish a sufficient English identity to have an agreed pronunciation!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I can't say that "Kuh-bec" is "wrong" (at least one on-line pronunciation site gives it as the correct pronunciation) but "Kwuh-bec" (or Kweh-bec, I think that represents the same pronunciation) seems more logical by analogy to other words that start with "que" (eg quest, queer, Quentin). On the other hand, when I searched for "Oxford Quebec pronunciation" on-line, the pronunciation is given as "Kwih-bec".

Given the ease with which soft vowels can shift, I am going to conclude that "Kweh-bec", "Kwuh-bec" and "Kwih-bec" are basically the same pronunciation and that "Kuh-bec" is also acceptable. I wonder if there is a prevailing English pronunciation among Anglo-Quebeckers? The problem with your citing Harper and Johnston is that both are Ontarians.

I blame Quebec for its failure to establish a sufficient English identity to have an agreed pronunciation!

Ha ha!

BTW, Anglo-Quebecers also overwhelmingly say kuh-bec. As does the CBC and other news organizations: CTV, Global, etc.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ha ha!

BTW, Anglo-Quebecers also overwhelmingly say kuh-bec. As does the CBC and other news organizations: CTV, Global, etc.

I will start listening more carefully, but with Oxford on my side I shall fear not and stick with "Qwuh-bec" !

Edit: I've now said "Qwuh-bec" so many times in my head that it's starting to remind me of the old "Buh bye" skit (Totally Bastard Airlines) on Saturday night live - I may have to start watching my pronunciation to make sure it doesn't sound like I'm mocking the place!

[1overcosc]

Espresso is an interesting one, I actually met someone in university who studied that one specifically.

For many English speakers, the sound combinations required to say 'espresso' the 'correct' way is very difficult. That kind of transition, from /ɛ/ to /s/ to /p/ to /ɹ/, is hard for many to do, as it's not a normal combination in the English language.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Espresso is an interesting one, I actually met someone in university who studied that one specifically.

For many English speakers, the sound combinations required to say 'espresso' the 'correct' way is very difficult. That kind of transition, from /ɛ/ to /s/ to /p/ to /ɹ/, is hard for many to do, as it's not a normal combination in the English language.

In the case of English and "espresso", its probably also reinforced by analogy to the common word "express". We don't have the same problem with words like "especially" or "Esperanto", so I wonder. Maybe we should start calling it "expressed coffee", although that doesn't have much of a ring to it!

[RWin]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

In the case of English and "espresso", its probably also reinforced by analogy to the common word "express". We don't have the same problem with words like "especially" or "Esperanto", so I wonder. Maybe we should start calling it "expressed coffee", although that doesn't have much of a ring to it!

I think people just need to learn the correct word

[RWin]

Originally Posted by esquire

Pro tip: Always order Vietnamese food using the numbers in the menu!

Yup. I always have the 3 and the 47.

With green tea (don't need the number for that one).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by RWin

I think people just need to learn the correct word

You don't have to convince ME!

Edit: Although anyone can get it wrong upon occasion. I know that I have more than once said "prostrate" when I meant "prostate" (don't laugh, you'll all get there someday!) and last year I heard myself asking someone at a funeral where the departed individual would be "interned", rather than "interred" (hazards of wanting to use more elevated language in a sombre situation, why I didn't just say "buried" I don't know).

[lio45]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Espresso is an interesting one, I actually met someone in university who studied that one specifically.

For many English speakers, the sound combinations required to say 'espresso' the 'correct' way is very difficult. That kind of transition, from /ɛ/ to /s/ to /p/ to /ɹ/, is hard for many to do, as it's not a normal combination in the English language.

Seriously?

"S"-presso is something "very difficult" to pronounce for native English speakers?!? (No wonder they generally have a hard time ever reaching fluency in other languages )

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Nor, for that matter, do Frenchmen say "London" in a clipped Oxbridge way, right in the middle of a French sentence referring to the British capital.

It's really easier when there's a distinct word for the place in the other language. (A Frenchman would say "Londres", and no Englishman can find fault with how it's pronounced.)

My logic, as explained in a previous post, is that "Quebec" in the English language should be treated like "Londres" in the French language -- a place name that the English language has appropriated and now pronounces as they see fit.

Very few places on our continent are like that though. When speaking French I can't be faulted for pronouncing "Terre-Neuve", "Floride" or "Californie" in a non-Anglo way. For something like "Toronto" or "Saskatchewan" you'd have a bit more of an argument (a situation similar to Quebec in English).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

Seriously?

"S"-presso is something "very difficult" to pronounce for native English speakers?!? (No wonder they generally have a hard time ever reaching fluency in other languages )

The sound doesn't seem especially difficult in English to me....

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

In the case of English and "espresso", its probably also reinforced by analogy to the common word "express". We don't have the same problem with words like "especially" or "Esperanto", so I wonder. Maybe we should start calling it "expressed coffee", although that doesn't have much of a ring to it!

The distinction between 'espresso' vs. 'especially' and 'esperanto' is that those two words follow the 'esp' with another vowel. 'espresso' follows it with a consonant. English is very fussy about too many consonants being too close together (notice how nobody can ever say 'sixths' in an elegant manner). Not nearly to the same extent as Japanese (where every consonant with the exception of "n" has to be followed immediately by a vowel), but it's nonetheless a feature of English. Generally, when a word in English has 3 adjacent consonants, it's at the start of a word.

Although the "express" factor is huge as well.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The sound doesn't seem especially difficult in English to me....

Yeah, but you also master written French better than the typical Joe Sixpack Québécois would, and IIRC you're basically fluent in both French and Spanish.

You're not exactly a representative sample for typical pronounciation limitations in Anglos. Although I'd be surprised if you could pronounce the French "u" (or German "ü" -- come to think of it, if your family tree isn't strictly Scottish, then maybe you had an ancestor or two from Berlin ON who passed that gene onto you) the right way. No one ever seems to achieve that except maybe Montreal Anglos who've spent their lives bathing in a pool of French since they were kids.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Although the "express" factor is huge as well.

I'm sure that's nearly 100% of it.

And self-reinforcing, too. If everyone already says expresso, the snowball effect won't be stopped.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lio45

Seriously?

"S"-presso is something "very difficult" to pronounce for native English speakers?!? (No wonder they generally have a hard time ever reaching fluency in other languages )

Not 'spresso'. If somebody coined the word 'Spresso' people would probably have no problem. It's the "espre-" that is hard. Vowel, triple consonant, vowel--that's difficult for an anglophone.

[1overcosc]

Phonotactic issues with words imported from other languages can be very significant. The Japanese have a very hard time learning other languages because of their strict phonotactic system of alternating vowels and consonants. The Japanese word for electricity, is imported straight from English, but pronounced 'erecuturisitu'.