The Halifax Regional "WTF?" thread

[hollistreet]

Originally Posted by Hali87

What is and isn't ok on and around Citadel Hill

This is more of a conceptual WTF, but does anyone else find it odd that so much time and money and effort and news time goes towards aesthetic concerns relating to Citadel Hill, yet no one seems to have a problem with, well, what it's used for at night?

I'm not necessarily saying that people should stop having anonymous sex on Citadel Hill (I think it contributes to a fun local sense of irony), I'm just fascinated that potentially being able to see rooftops from inside the Citadel is considered that much bigger an issue than actually being able to see people having sex on it pretty often. Again, fun local irony, I guess.

With all the sex taking place up there then maybe the rule of seeing rooftops form inside the Citadel should be based on people lying on their back and not from a height of 5 feet!

[resetcbu1]

Originally Posted by hollistreet

With all the sex taking place up there then maybe the rule of seeing rooftops form inside the Citadel should be based on people lying on their back and not from a height of 5 feet!

that sounds like a great idea

[someone123]

Is the Citadel Hill cruising thing still true?

The Coast had some decent articles about how crazy the city is with its parkland. "Green space" in Halifax is politically charged and tends to be managed based on abstract principles (heritage, environmentalism, whatever) and dogma (once created, it can never be used for anything else -- eventually the whole city will be parks and graveyards). There doesn't seem as much concern that park space be of practical use to real people.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by someone123

Is the Citadel Hill cruising thing still true?

Yep. I used to walk along Ahern Ave at night coming back from my sister's apartment in Park Vic and I would see the cars and people walking around on top of the hill. I also saw the cops going after them once or twice. I'm no expert on this but I think this and Wilkinson Ave in Burnside are the only cruising spots left in Greater Halifax.

Personally I have no problem with this activity. I feel as long as it occurs in private or "empty" spaces that will not allow the activity to be directly seen or heard it is permitable.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by alps

That's the opposite side of the building (photographed from Metropark.)

True, my bad. I honestly do think the windows were switched out sometime in the last few years, but I could be wrong.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Yep. I used to walk along Ahern Ave at night coming back from my sister's apartment in Park Vic and I would see the cars and people walking around on top of the hill. I also saw the cops going after them once or twice. I'm no expert on this but I think this and Wilkinson Ave in Burnside are the only cruising spots left in Greater Halifax.

Personally I have no problem with this activity. I feel as long as it occurs in private or "empty" spaces that will not allow the activity to be directly seen or heard it is permitable.

I don't have a problem with it, I just think it's funny (as in, comical) that with all of the very public controversy constantly focused on the Citadel, that this never ever comes up, despite the fact that it's pretty much a universally known fact within the HRM.

On the other hand, I was cutting across the parking lot by the Garrison Grounds one night and was approached by an elderly gentleman who asked if I "needed a ride up the hill". I felt more sorry for the guy than anything, but I can see how other people might react very differently. I can't help but see it as a bit of a disaster waiting to happen if the wrong people end up saying the wrong things to each other.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Hali87

What is and isn't ok on and around Citadel Hill

This is more of a conceptual WTF, but does anyone else find it odd that so much time and money and effort and news time goes towards aesthetic concerns relating to Citadel Hill...

I find it hard to imagine that the aesthetic effort related to the citadel has resulted in the hodgepodge of railings, guardrails, walls, and hard surfaces in the path leading from Carmichael Street, past the town clock, to the parking area at the main gates of the Citadel.

Strike that.

Aside from the fort itself, and the town clock, there's not much about the design of ANY of the hill that even whispers a suggestion of aesthetic care.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I don't have a problem with it, I just think it's funny (as in, comical) that with all of the very public controversy constantly focused on the Citadel, that this never ever comes up, despite the fact that it's pretty much a universally known fact within the HRM.

On the other hand, I was cutting across the parking lot by the Garrison Grounds one night and was approached by an elderly gentleman who asked if I "needed a ride up the hill". I felt more sorry for the guy than anything, but I can see how other people might react very differently. I can't help but see it as a bit of a disaster waiting to happen if the wrong people end up saying the wrong things to each other.

Odd, but I remember hearing somewhere (probably the Coast) that cruising on the hill has been around since its very early days as a military installation. I guess the soldiers needed something to do in their downtime?

[Keith P.]

If it's in the Coast, it's probably not true.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Odd, but I remember hearing somewhere (probably the Coast) that cruising on the hill has been around since its very early days as a military installation. I guess the soldiers needed something to do in their downtime?

I don't have any actual info to back this up, but I would guess that being the strict military town that it was back then, that there is no way that this type of activity would have been tolerated at the Citadel. I suspect that if "cruising" happened back then it would have been somewhere out of sight.

As far as soldiers' downtime goes, there were plenty of brothels in town to take care of those "needs".

[Aya_Akai]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I don't have any actual info to back this up, but I would guess that being the strict military town that it was back then, that there is no way that this type of activity would have been tolerated at the Citadel. I suspect that if "cruising" happened back then it would have been somewhere out of sight.

As far as soldiers' downtime goes, there were plenty of brothels in town to take care of those "needs".

I actually just recently read a book recently all about the history of the North End/Downtown. During the VE Day Riots, personell of all forms of the forces (as well as members of the public) were engaging in rather.. uh, promiscuous sexual activity out in the open, on the grass of citadel hill.. lol "The More You Know!"

[someone123]

When you go back farther in history, say to pre-Victorian times, it can actually be a little hard to guess at what behaviour was or was not morally acceptable. Even a lot of common knowledge people have about the past is just historical revisionism from about 100 years ago. One big example is the idea that educated Middle Age Europeans thought the earth was flat -- that was invented by some author.

I don't remember the exact dates but I have read that public nudity in Europe was a lot more acceptable up until something like the 1600's. Brothels weren't illegal in many places until relatively recently. The "fig leaf" stuff in paintings and statues doesn't go back to Roman or Greek times. For many centuries naked statues were just normal.

[OldDartmouthMark]

While I don't doubt all that, I can't help but recall reading how they used to leave a hanging body on George's Island to warn all incoming ships that Halifax was a strict military town, so going by that I felt that on an active military establishment as the Citadel was in the 18th and 19th centuries, that such activity wouldn't have been tolerated.

But only those who were there would have known...

Regarding the VE day riots, my understanding (from what I have read and from my father's first-hand accounts) is that pretty much anything and everything happened, but it was only short lived.

[pchipman]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I don't have a problem with it, I just think it's funny (as in, comical) that with all of the very public controversy constantly focused on the Citadel, that this never ever comes up, despite the fact that it's pretty much a universally known fact within the HRM.

On the other hand, I was cutting across the parking lot by the Garrison Grounds one night and was approached by an elderly gentleman who asked if I "needed a ride up the hill". I felt more sorry for the guy than anything, but I can see how other people might react very differently. I can't help but see it as a bit of a disaster waiting to happen if the wrong people end up saying the wrong things to each other.

I seem to always forget just how creepy it can get up there at night. My fiancee and I went for a walk up there during Nocturne this year thinking there may be something interesting happening (didn't look at the schedule or map) - we were completely wrong. Whereas the rest of the city was bustling with crowds, the Citadel was dark, quiet, but packed with parked cars and leering eyes. I think it's time this was addressed, at least with some lighting features. I always love walking around the Citadel at night and checking out the city lit up, but I always seem to forget just how damn creepy it gets up there.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by HaliStreaks

I actually just recently read a book recently all about the history of the North End/Downtown. During the VE Day Riots, personell of all forms of the forces (as well as members of the public) were engaging in rather.. uh, promiscuous sexual activity out in the open, on the grass of citadel hill.. lol "The More You Know!"

It would have all been of the hetero variety though. Remember, homosexuality was actually illegal as per federal law back then.

[coolmillion]

Regarding Citadel Hill - the cruising that happens there is tolerated in part because it is almost invisible. Well, you can see figures in the distance and cars circling around, and if you walk up there at night you may see people sitting alone in parked cars, but all of this is hardly evidence of sex. If anyone is having sex, they probably don't want to be seen and would probably go to lengths to avoid being caught, such as stopping if someone approaches. Also, anyone can drive a car up there at night, and lots of people probably do this just to look at the view (and some probably tell themselves that's what they're doing...). If ever there is an event on the Citadel, or fireworks or anything like that, it's full of people and feels completely different.

Another thing that may affect the way the space is managed is that it is a Parks Canada site. I know from walking my dog on the hill sometimes that the city doesn't send it's dog-on-leash enforcement people up there like at Point Pleasant. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with federal management but it's possible. This might cause the city to be more arm's length.

[coolmillion]

Oh, and I live about 100 meters from the hill so I see all of the activity but none of the sex...

[q12]

Halifax homeowner’s fence spells trouble

July 17, 2013 - 7:24pm BY EMILY KITAGAWA

Woman put up 2-metre barrier to protect kids; city says she faces fine or jail

READ THE STORY HERE: http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1...spells-trouble

Heritage rules out of control, this city is f' up.

They don't do anything about the Morse Tea sign, but are threatening to jail a woman for protecting her kids.

No wonder no one wants to live downtown. It's sound worse than Vancouver's junkie problem.

[Duff]

Originally Posted by q12

Heritage rules out of control, this city is f' up.

You're absolutely right. This is insane and something needs to change.

[scooby074]

In fairness to the heritage types, thats a DAMN ugly fence.

You move into a heritage building, sticking up a cheap, ugly, PT fence just isnt going to fly.