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  #2901  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Justbuildit View Post
Love this angle. The jump in height of the skyline is pretty amazing. I expected it to be high but for some reason I wasn't expecting it be as bulky as it is. That's not a criticism. In fact, I'm happy it is.
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  #2902  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 10:36 PM
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Should have been 1200 ft

We just have to wait for San Francisco without Sue Hestor.
At first I was pissed when it was cut down to 1,070 feet, but the tower is very impressive as it is, so I can chill on that. 1,070 is about right for the city. This isn't Manhattan or Chicago. LA doesn't even have a tower reaching 1,200 feet, so SF has nothing to be ashamed about. I think 1,200 feet might have been too much for the skyline anyway and look kind of weird.
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  #2903  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 12:35 AM
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I think once after the current building cycle has been mostly completed, another tower 1200 feet or taller wouldn't look so out of place. I'm just not sure where, when and how though. Where could such a building be built in San Francisco without running into shadow issues, etc.? As we know, Salesforce Tower was shortened for this very reason. And because it is meant to be tallest, all the other new 700 foot plus towers around it are shortened as well. I'm still happy with the way things are turning out. I think the step up in height for the city fits well as it is as some of you said.

Last edited by SFView; Mar 26, 2017 at 12:48 AM.
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  #2904  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 8:18 AM
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  #2905  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 5:27 PM
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And because it is meant to be tallest, all the other new 700 foot plus towers around it are shortened as well.
Yes...just think, the 181 Fremont site was originally zoned for 900', then reduced to 700'. I wish that tower could have been taller, even with Salesforce at its current height.
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  #2906  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ozone View Post
Love this angle. The jump in height of the skyline is pretty amazing. I expected it to be high but for some reason I wasn't expecting it be as bulky as it is. That's not a criticism. In fact, I'm happy it is.
And Oceanwide is going to be even bulkier and only slightly shorter.

By the way everyone, Sue Hestor will outlive you all, though I don't think she is actually to blame for the fact of this tower being less than 1200 feet and, as I said before, I think I rather like its current height and bulk now that I see it there in context.
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  #2907  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 6:00 PM
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Originally Posted by viewguysf View Post
Yes...just think, the 181 Fremont site was originally zoned for 900', then reduced to 700'. I wish that tower could have been taller, even with Salesforce at its current height.
Yes, we can agree on that. TWO 900 ft towers beside Salesforce would have been nice and I don't quite see why they zoned the site for less except that since the 181 Fremont site is half a block closer to the Embarcadero, maybe the shaddows hitting it were more significant.

THAT, not Sue Hestor, is what this is all about I think: Shaddowing of public open spaces which, for good or bad, is not allowed by the SF Planning Code and hasn't been for some time.
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  #2908  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 7:38 PM
Justbuildit Justbuildit is offline
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Originally Posted by viewguysf View Post
Yes...just think, the 181 Fremont site was originally zoned for 900', then reduced to 700'. I wish that tower could have been taller, even with Salesforce at its current height.
181 Fremont is actually 802 ft with the spire.

Last edited by Justbuildit; Mar 26, 2017 at 7:53 PM.
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  #2909  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 8:02 PM
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181 Fremont is actually 802 ft with the spire.
Yes, but the roofline is 700', the crown 745', and the spire 802'. Salesforce Tower is zoned for 1,000', but additions are allowed for mechanical screening, crowns, etc. Theoretically, 181 Fremont's spire might have been 1,002'. Millennium Tower was zoned for 600' and has a 45' crown. You can easily read the same thing about other existing or proposed structures.
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  #2910  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 10:31 PM
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^^Unfortuntely for don, builders aren't often very interested in making their buildings taller (or in having observation decks) just because they can. They are interested in rentable square footage and that stops at the allowable height limit for occupied space. Rarely, they see the value in having a "tallest" building for the prestige factor (resulting in higher rents) but not just to satisfy skyscraper geeks.
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  #2911  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 12:07 AM
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I understand the Oceanside people wanted their taller tower a bit taller than the 850 foot limit, but was denied by Planning.

Does anyone know who helped author the Proposition K Shadow Ordinance?
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  #2912  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 4:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SFView View Post
...
Does anyone know who helped author the Proposition K Shadow Ordinance?
check out page 54 (pdf)

it was placed on the ballot by 8 members of the then BofS, tho the specific author(s) I don't know

Last edited by timbad; Mar 27, 2017 at 4:29 AM.
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  #2913  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 6:07 AM
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Does anyone know who helped author the Proposition K Shadow Ordinance?
In my view, a shadow ordinance has value if it isn't overly draconian. There is discussion about one in NYC and elsewhere. It's Prop M that's the problem.
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  #2914  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 6:28 AM
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Originally Posted by timbad View Post
check out page 54 (pdf)

it was placed on the ballot by 8 members of the then BofS, tho the specific author(s) I don't know
Thanks.
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  #2915  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 6:50 AM
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In my view, a shadow ordinance has value if it isn't overly draconian. There is discussion about one in NYC and elsewhere. It's Prop M that's the problem.
Yes, I do agree the shadow ordinance has justifiable cause. As a user of parks and playgrounds, my young daughter and I support it, at least where it makes sense. It is also probably one of the best ways to curb what some may view as excessive height in San Francisco. There are parks and public open spaces all over the city needing such protection. I've have also seen the shadow studies over Central Park in New York.

One thing I'm beginning to realize is that the crown on Salesforce doesn't really look all that transparent. It looks like it will cast a significant shadow, so is 1070 feet the actual maximum height for the building shadow, instead of 1000 feet, or 970 for the (mechanical) roof?
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  #2916  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 7:51 AM
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^^I'm beginning to wonder about even calling it a "crown". It looks like it may be decked in some way. I'm even wondering about the possibility of a helo pad or something although I still think that's unlikely because there's no evidence of a substantial stairway to reach the very top.

Derigible mooring maybe?

But with the glazing and screening it will definitely cast almost as dense a shaddow as occupied space.
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  #2917  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 2:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SFView View Post
One thing I'm beginning to realize is that the crown on Salesforce doesn't really look all that transparent. It looks like it will cast a significant shadow, so is 1070 feet the actual maximum height for the building shadow, instead of 1000 feet, or 970 for the (mechanical) roof?
The core rises to 970' too, so it's a definite wall. I've been thinking the same thing about the 100' crown above it, filtered sun at best. The difference was apparently between 1,070' and 1,200'.
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  #2918  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 5:53 PM
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This shot provides a good sense of a complete SF's profile on the skyline:

Untitled by Daniel Hoherd, on Flickr
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  #2919  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 6:00 PM
CastleScott CastleScott is offline
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^ Great pic!! I bet those two crane heights are close to 1250 making crane records for SF.
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  #2920  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 6:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
^^I'm beginning to wonder about even calling it a "crown". It looks like it may be decked in some way. I'm even wondering about the possibility of a helo pad or something although I still think that's unlikely because there's no evidence of a substantial stairway to reach the very top.

Derigible mooring maybe?

But with the glazing and screening it will definitely cast almost as dense a shaddow as occupied space.
The decking will add shadows as well.

I think the decking, including decking at the very top, may be staging platforms for different lighting devices and effects for various future events, celebrations, and art presentations. That's my guess, as I have been trying to reason out why they might be adding a deck at the top as well. It looks that way from the structure they are placing.

I tend to agree that the crown is looking less 'crown,' and more 'building' with the decks, cladding and overall heavy floor level-like structure.
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