Let’s Talk Brand & Reputation

[Rocket252]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

I still do work in Edmonton and maintain a residence there my friend.

We must ask ourselves in Edmonton harder questions and compete at a higher level.

I agree as per the previous post regarding RBC.

We can’t even compete in our own province never mind nationally or internationally.

[JSS1974]

Hello, I'm a first time poster. I live and work in Edmonton, and enjoy living in this city. Recently came across this forum, as I was curious to see where and what other Edmontonians write about their city.

In terms of RBC choosing Calgary as their tech innovation hub, I feel that RBC is such a large corporation and they are like a magnet that will likely draw other corporations to look at Calgary as a tech centre. Do I think they can seriously compete with Toronto, Vancouver, or Montreal? Not a chance, as these cities are giants in their own way.

Where is Edmonton in all the action? I don't know, but I have a few thoughts:
- Ambition: Is Edmonton just slow? Maybe the city is happy with good government jobs, and they don't care much? Maybe more advertising and budget is required?
- Calgary: cleaner downtown, federal and political clout, flight connections
- Provincial Relationship: Perhaps there simply was and is a better relationship between Calgary and the Province?
- Corporate: Does Toronto know where Edmonton is? Is Toronto too heavily invested in Calgary? Does Edmonton need a larger advertising budget?
- Other: I was visiting Winnipeg a couple of years ago. I saw RBC logo on their highest tower in Winnipeg, as well as the RBC Convention Centre. They also have Bell MTS Centre. A Rogers logo on an office. When I look at Edmonton's downtown, I see hardly any corporate Canadian sponsorship. The big five Canadian banks have hardly any appearance in downtown. Just in the malls or suburbs. Calgary has more sponsorship from corporate Canada. They also have Air Canada and Westjet. These are the two closest prairie cities I could compare Edmonton to.

Overall, I think Edmonton is kind of an oddball city in Canada. It's hard to believe that the fifth largest Canadian city of around 1.4M people regionally has so little attention, yet it seems like the city is stuck in mud and can't get out of it. How they will attract tech and innovation companies? I would surmise that the stone is cast, and Calgary will take the lead on this one. Edmonton can/should try, but they should look at other industries, and move faster.

Hope no one is offended with what I wrote. Like some of you, I'd like to see the city prosper.

[itom 987]

Welcome to Skyscraperpage JSS1974!

[s211]

Originally Posted by CaptainBL

This is not a good trend as RBC is one in a dozen companies that have announced tech investment/jobs/relocations in Calgary just this year so far. The CEO of RBC mentioned the reason they chose Calgary was because 1. the city is a major tech player 2. Alberta has several post secondary institutions that are launching programs in tech, to which he specifically mentioned AI, 3. RBC has 4,000 employees in the province.

The issue I see here is that Edmonton claims to be a major tech player, Edmonton is home to THE best educational institution in the province which likes to boast its AI connections, and capabilities yet RBC and as publicly announced many other companies continue to choose Calgary. Not a single tech company has publicly made an announcement like this in Edmonton this year and I'd have to go back to Google Deep mind in 2017 to remember the last time an announcement like this was made (to the best of my knowledge). This is a glaring issue that I truly hope the next mayor of Edmonton understands as the more this happens, the less jobs available to U of A, NAIT, Mac students and the more Edmonton loses out to Calgary in a multiplier effect.

RBC CEO's post:

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dave-...215297536-zwqR

I hate to say this, but Edmonton is so off the national radar that it might was well not exist. Back east especially, Calgary IS Alberta, full stop. You can't underestimate the importance of that.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by s211

I hate to say this, but Edmonton is so off the national radar that it might was well not exist. Back east especially, Calgary IS Alberta, full stop. You can't underestimate the importance of that.

Serious question. Why do you frequent Edmonton section? You say you care about the city, but I see nothing constructive from you whatsoever. The only thing you do is denigrate the city. A troll in troll's clothing.

[CaptainBL]

Originally Posted by s211

I hate to say this, but Edmonton is so off the national radar that it might was well not exist. Back east especially, Calgary IS Alberta, full stop. You can't underestimate the importance of that.

Agreed in full. I live in Ontario and it has become a civic duty of mine to educate people who think Edmonton is about the same size as Saskatoon, or who auto assume that since I'm from Alberta that I am from Calgary. A lot of ignorance out East in Ontario and Quebec specifically from my experience but it starts with what the city does and doesn't do in terms of making noise. I have also seen a lot of corporate press releases recently that word language along the lines of "we selected Calgary because we believe in Alberta" or "the Alberta market is strong which is why we are relocating to Calgary" i.e. a lot of corporations and people out there view Calgary and Alberta as synonymous. It's an indictment to the relevance of this city nationally, as the poster above noted, very irrelevant nationally given its size.

Pointing this out is not trolling, this has been a daily occurrence and experience since I moved out east. I have heard everything from "I once heard all of downtown Edmonton is a refinery" to "Edmonton is worse than Windsor and I've never even been to Edmonton" to "Are you going home to Calgary for Thanksgiving?" (People that know I am from Edmonton but forget and just assume Calgary) to a recent follow up coffee chat email saying "I hope you made it to the Stampede as I know you are in Calgary!" when I explained during the coffee chat that I was currently in Edmonton at the time.

Just because others don't like to hear this truth, doesn't making it trolling. Trust me, I wish this weren't the case for Edmonton but although this is certainly not always the case, my general consensus is that Edmonton is unjustifiably a very forgettable place for an unjustifiably large group of people.

[Rocket252]

^ Sad but true and I have lived here for 45 years. It seemed Edmonton had some identity when I got here but it has gone away.

[DKaz]

I don't mind being the underdog.

[Slide]

^i'd say more invisible than underdog...

I had similar experiences when I lived east, particularly when people would forget I'm from Edmonton but remember I was from Alberta and always assumed Calgary.
From getting articles about Calgary sent to me, or just like CaptainBL said, "are you heading back to Calgary for X holiday?" Happened all the time. Calgary and Alberta are absolutely-absolutely interchangeable in the mind of rest of Canada.

"the image of Alberta doesn't come from Edmonton".

I remember many years ago when the ATB tower in Edmonton lit up in Calgary Flames colours during the playoffs because they're "Alberta's Bank"

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...flames-colours

That one is still burned into my brain as some kind of low point for Edmonton ...

Even all the chatter about saving Calgary's downtown being some kind of province wide priority, while Edmonton's downtown has been suffering for 40 years.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Jaws

Serious question. Why do you frequent Edmonton section? You say you care about the city, but I see nothing constructive from you whatsoever. The only thing you do is denigrate the city. A troll in troll's clothing.

Serious answer? Because I care? I do wonder myself sometimes, though. I moved away 35 years ago and yet I still care. I've seen what the city once was and what it meant on a provincial scale, when Calgary was a measurably smaller city and how Edmonton was projected to continue on that pre-eminent trajectory *, and now Edmonton eats the scraps off Calgary's table.

* Does anyone here remember a wall-graphic on that very point once displayed at the old RAM many years ago, as a part of one of their exhibits?

[Glenco]

What happens in Edmonton stays in Edmonton.
Edmonton has to be the consummate Canadian city. Canada is largely overlooked on the international scene for many reason much the as Edmonton is nationally. Back in the seventies, you may remember the Lougheed era, many news agencies relocated south with very little fanfare but was a key strategic move at the time. Now when you watch the national news the dateline in rarely Edmonton even when the news item originated here. Frustrating and infuriating but all part of the “plan” by the powers that be.
Which leads to another point as sense of helplessness towards reversing this trend permeated throughout the city for decades. We can witness this today with the current regime promoting them and doing absolutely nothing for us.
Going forward before we achieve national recognition let alone international recognition we have to believe in ourselves no one is going to do it for us we can compete we have to compete and not give up

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Jaws

Serious question. Why do you frequent Edmonton section? You say you care about the city, but I see nothing constructive from you whatsoever. The only thing you do is denigrate the city. A troll in troll's clothing.

not recognizing that things could and should be better isn’t trolling, it’s the first step to not falling further and further behind.

[JSS1974]

Does Calgary get some sort of specific funding from the province to lure business there?

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by JSS1974

Does Calgary get some sort of specific funding from the province to lure business there?

Billions to fund failures for pipeline investment like the failed Keystone and other ventures. Companies then support the UPC and fund Calgary initiatives.

"How AIMCO invested more than a billion dollars of pensioners and Albertans money into risky oil and gas companies with more than $3 billion in environmental liabilities and how the people running those companies got rich through huge salaries, share buybacks, dividends and conservative political connections"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...erta-1.5552562

https://pressprogress.ca/wp-content/...MCO-report.pdf

https://pressprogress.ca/wp-content/...MCO-report.pdf

[Glenco]

Originally Posted by JSS1974

Does Calgary get some sort of specific funding from the province to lure business there?

Wall has, for about a decade, regularly stated his intention to bring more head office jobs to the province. The topic featured prominently in his first premier’s dinner speech. Political watchers have heard countless times Wall relay a story about advice he received from his political idol, former Alberta Premier Peter Lougheed, about attracting head offices to the province.

The premier brought that story up again Thursday with reporters, telling them Lougheed said the way to move head office jobs to your province is by asking companies to do so
https://leaderpost.com/news/politics...sterity-budget
You simply ask them to do so like Lougheed ask oil and gas companies to relocate to his favoured city.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by kcantor

not recognizing that things could and should be better isn’t trolling, it’s the first step to not falling further and further behind.

Disagree. It’s a pattern with statements in the vein of “typical Edmonton”, “how Edmonton”…. With nothing constructive to add. Everyone can see we’ve got work to do.
We have taken a step backwards in the few years but it is better than the 90s which were the lost decade exasperated by the Klein government which gutted this city. The PC/UCP have been Calgary boosters for 40 years.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by Jaws

Disagree. It’s a pattern with statements in the vein of “typical Edmonton”, “how Edmonton”…. With nothing constructive to add. Everyone can see we’ve got work to do.
We have taken a step backwards in the few years but it is better than the 90s which were the lost decade exasperated by the Klein government which gutted this city. The PC/UCP have been Calgary boosters for 40 years.

Bingo.

[JSS1974]

Edmonton has a large public sector employment base, both provincial and federal. This is an advantage over Calgary. During downturns, this has helped Edmonton.
On the other hand, having this luxury might be holding the city back from pushing ahead.
I’d be curious to know what Edmonton has done to drum up business here, and to help build its reputation. For example, have they contacted the suits in Toronto, made presentations to various countries, cities agencies to pitch the city. Have they offered corporate relocation packages? Or is the city too relaxed and is just happy having stable public sector employment. Yes, Edmonton is a pretty relaxing city to live in.

[CaptainBL]

Originally Posted by JSS1974

Edmonton has a large public sector employment base, both provincial and federal. This is an advantage over Calgary. During downturns, this has helped Edmonton.
On the other hand, having this luxury might be holding the city back from pushing ahead.
I’d be curious to know what Edmonton has done to drum up business here, and to help build its reputation. For example, have they contacted the suits in Toronto, made presentations to various countries, cities agencies to pitch the city. Have they offered corporate relocation packages? Or is the city too relaxed and is just happy having stable public sector employment. Yes, Edmonton is a pretty relaxing city to live in.

JSS1974, you have asked some great questions that I have pondered and also debated back and forth on this forum many times historically. Quite often I have heard the Edmonton is a government city justification as to why it doesn't get as much attention corporately. I do not believe that to be a solid reason for its embarrassing corporate performance. And my favorite case study as to why is studying no further than Austin, Texas. Austin is a very similar city in terms of demographics and was historically a blue collar, government, university town - similar to Edmonton. And worse, it has to compete with both larger and more corporate Houston and Dallas, which both have a lot more corporations, international airline routes and house the investment banks (access to capital and relationships) yet Austin has managed to make impressive strides as the littler city that could in Texas becoming home several tech head offices and now is even drawing companies from Silicon Valley. If you are interested, I encourage you to research how Austin has managed to carve its own path successfully out of the shadows of Houston and Dallas, while still retaining a government and blue collar/industrial base.

In terms of what Edmonton could and should do, in my opinion (based on my executive corporate experience as well as interactions with certain current council members), Edmonton flat out does not pitch itself nearly enough or aggressive enough (or perhaps at all) to groups whether in Toronto or elsewhere. Calgary has landed a number of companies this year alone and one interesting note in the press release for Infosys was how hard Mayor Nenshi had been pursuing the company to open an office in Calgary. And if you think Calgary is working this hard on one company, you can be sure they have been doing this on many companies.

https://calgaryherald.com/business/l...ncement-nenshi

To my knowledge and experience, Mayor Iveson and council had done an absolute abysmal job at doing recruiting companies, investment and ultimately jobs and it starts at the top with leadership. If they do not make this a priority to build relationships, incentivize companies through partnerships or providing specific infrastructure or what have you, then companies will continue to bypass Edmonton and work with the more business friendly city in the province. Its simple.

[kcantor]

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