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  #1181  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2021, 7:26 AM
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For what it's worth, I know somebody who's a plumber who works on new construction (currently working on the Central Subway project). I asked him if he'd heard any rumors about Oceanwide and he said, "No."
     
     
  #1182  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2021, 8:26 AM
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Originally Posted by dirt patch View Post
2nd crane is being taken down finally this week.


they don't seem to be in a hurry
     
     
  #1183  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 11:02 PM
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[IMG]http://[url=https://flic.kr/p/2m7cUr8][/url]E6C14E79-2F29-4859-B35E-3FE769A6EA76 by gurkster2000, on Flickr[/IMG]

They took down the last of the third crane today. So just to update what most of us know, Oceanwide is trying to sell the site. They failed in selling to another Chinese company and nothing is on the horizon. There are multiple lawsuits from sub contractors. IMO, it will be 2-3 years before this is all settled out with a new buyer. I will say it will be a US Company on the likes of Boston Properties.
     
     
  #1184  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by theskysthelimit View Post
They took down the last of the third crane today. So just to update what most of us know, Oceanwide is trying to sell the site. They failed in selling to another Chinese company and nothing is on the horizon. There are multiple lawsuits from sub contractors. IMO, it will be 2-3 years before this is all settled out with a new buyer. I will say it will be a US Company on the likes of Boston Properties.
What a mess, though I wonder if whoever buys it will continue this same project
     
     
  #1185  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 2:05 AM
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This has been dead in the water for a long time. Put this one in the never built category. Sad. It would have been such a great building.
     
     
  #1186  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 4:25 AM
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This has been dead in the water for a long time. Put this one in the never built category. Sad. It would have been such a great building.
We’ll see about that. They may split it into 2 parts, though with each tower being bought separately. Otherwise I think TheSkysTheLimit is right.
     
     
  #1187  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2021, 3:35 AM
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What is the chance of this project being revived?

The area where Oceanwide is should be at the crossroads of SOMA and the FIDI but feels pretty dead.
     
     
  #1188  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2021, 7:15 AM
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What is the chance of this project being revived?

The area where Oceanwide is should be at the crossroads of SOMA and the FIDI but feels pretty dead.
I would call them very high but SF's downtown needs to show signs of recovery first. The big question is what will be the demand for office space IF we have substantial working from home. Also, for the shorter tower we will need a recovery of the convention industry if it is to be finished as a hotel. It could also probably be finished as luxury housing.

If there is demand, this is a project a major developer like a REIT would want to buy cheap and finish.
     
     
  #1189  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2021, 9:10 PM
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The site will almost certainly be developed within the next several years but possible it could be downsized, say 20 stories?
     
     
  #1190  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2021, 9:53 PM
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The site will almost certainly be developed within the next several years but possible it could be downsized, say 20 stories?
If there's a major change like that it would have to go through the Byzantine planning process all over again which is absurdly expensive. And the foundations, which in San Francisco takes close to half the construction time, have already been completed to street level for the buildings as previously designed. They would be grossly over-designed for a building half the height.

Finally, there are very limited building opportunities in San Francisco for buildings approaching 1000 ft. This is really about the only site left under current zoning. It would be stupid beyond imagining for someone to under-develop it to that degree.

The cheapest, most sensible plan is to complete it as designed, at least as far as the shell of the building goes. Some modification of the interior uses may be possible such as I suggested: Changing the shorter tower from hotel to housing. What's more interesting is whether it might be possible to alter the use of the taller tower from all office for which there may not be a market for years to come.
     
     
  #1191  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2021, 8:22 AM
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Pedestrian, keeping hope alive!
     
     
  #1192  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2021, 8:33 AM
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Pedestrian, keeping hope alive!
Well this isn’t the first project I’ve seen halted and eventually finished as planned. Two others were 535 Mission and the second One Rincon Hill tower. In fact several of the towers on Rincon Hill had start/stop/start beginnings. The one we all hate (name I can’t recall at the moment) was sold several times before getting built. And even the Salesforce Tower wasn’t ultimately built by the same group that won the city’s “beauty contest” but they used the same design (I think it was Hines that won but they sold the controlling interest to Boston Properties before construction—that’s my recollection).
     
     
  #1193  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2021, 7:51 AM
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The one we all hate (name I can’t recall at the moment) was sold several times before getting built.
Jasper at 45 Lansing
     
     
  #1194  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2021, 1:13 PM
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Jasper at 45 Lansing
Everytime I drive by it on 101 it grows on me...like those ugly crosseyed hairless chihuahuas you see on tv sometimes.
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"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference."-Robert Frost
     
     
  #1195  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2021, 5:48 PM
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A little more information came out regarding this project.

Quote:
Multiple market insiders have told me Boston Properties has emerged as a serious contender for the San Francisco project as other potential buyers have dropped out, but an unnamed foreign real estate investment firm is also said to be in the mix.
Quote:
The Chinese developer is said to have been seeking a buyer for the project since it stopped construction, and sources tell me that a number of companies looked at the project, including Boston Properties, Tishman Speyer, Associate Capital and an unidentified foreign company. Sources have confirmed that Associate Capital and Tishman Speyer are no longer considering a deal; both declined to comment for this story.
I am hoping Boston Properties becomes the stronger contender for this project and takes over and completes the project as designed. I am highly skeptical of “foreign” companies taking over this project.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...mPxNCuqb9WJi0A
     
     
  #1196  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2021, 5:58 PM
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Originally Posted by theskysthelimit View Post
A little more information came out regarding this project.





I am hoping Boston Properties becomes the stronger contender for this project and takes over and completes the project as designed. I am highly skeptical of “foreign” companies taking over this project.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...mPxNCuqb9WJi0A
C'mon BP let's get it done!

     
     
  #1197  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2021, 4:43 PM
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Oceanwide’s US business is sinking. Can it right the ship?
June 14, 2021
By Kevin Sun

In 2014, Oceanwide Holdings announced plans to build a 2.4 million-square-foot megaproject in San Francisco. The twin-tower development would be the Chinese conglomerate’s first big push into North America, at a time when Chinese firms were spending billions on massive projects and on acquiring high-end properties from California to New York.

Seven years later, the stalled project — dubbed Oceanwide Center — has come to represent something else: a $1.6 billion burden. Another is a massive L.A. tower project where work has also stalled, along with two large-scale developments still in the planning stages in New York City and Honolulu . . . .

Oceanwide — whose businesses include financial services, technology and power plants — has also been battered by lawsuits in the U.S. and in China, a recent bond downgrading and capital controls from Beijing that have tightened the belt on investment abroad.

In January 2020, Oceanwide said it would be divesting its San Francisco project — which would be the city’s second-tallest building — citing economic shifts at home and abroad, which had put pressure on the company.

By the company’s own estimates, the planned $1 billion sale of the project to Beijing-based asset manager SPF Group would have represented a near-$280 million loss. But several coronavirus-related delays scuttled that deal as well as a subsequent one with another China-based company, the private equity firm Hony Capital.

Oceanwide now appears adrift, trying to shed its U.S. properties as it seeks to exit real estate. But facing a cash flow crunch in China and with ratings agencies having downgraded its bonds, is it too late to right the ship?

Under the leadership of billionaire Lu Zhiqiang — who stepped down as president and CEO last year but remains the firm’s majority shareholder — Oceanwide rode China’s real estate wave over the past three decades to become one of the country’s largest private business groups.

But trouble has been looming, according to Wei Du, a reporter with Wuhan-based Changjiang Times. “In the face of massive debts, Lu Zhiqiang has resorted to the typical self-rescue methods — disposing of assets and bringing in ‘strategic investors’,” Wei wrote in April. “After selling land parcels and shares in Minsheng Securities, Oceanwide has already recovered tens of billions [of yuan] — which isn’t enough to quench its thirst. And there has been no visible progress in attracting strategic investment.”

Around the time the company was making inroads into U.S. real estate, it also started a strategic repositioning that would see financial services become the main focus of its business. This shift was formalized in early 2020, when Chinese securities authorities reclassified its Shenzhen-listed holding company as a financial firm rather than a real estate firm. According to its 2020 earnings report, just 15 percent of its $2.2 billion in income over the previous year came from real estate. Most of the remainder came from financial services, through subsidiaries like China Minsheng Trust, Minsheng Securities and Asia-Pacific Property and Casualty Insurance.

Within China, the group’s ongoing real estate developments are mainly concentrated in the central business district of Wuhan, where Covid-19 was first discovered and which bore the brunt of the pandemic early on.

Oceanwide’s other interests include a pair of coal-fired steam power plants in Sumatra, Indonesia, and U.S. technology media firm International Data Group, which it acquired in 2017 for an unspecified sum and then sold to Blackstone Group earlier this month for $1.3 billion.

For the past several years, Oceanwide was also party to one of the longest-running “zombie deals” ever, as it struggled to line up funding and regulatory approvals for a $2.7 billion acquisition of U.S. insurer Genworth Financial.

That deal finally fell apart in April, when Genworth exercised an option to terminate the merger, with plans to possibly pursue a partial initial public offering instead.

In late 2019, reports emerged that Oceanwide was seeking to sell off not only Oceanwide Center in San Francisco, but also Oceanwide Plaza in L.A. and its development site at 80 South Street in Lower Manhattan, where it planned to build a 1,400-foot-tall mixed-use skyscraper. The company’s land holdings in Hawaii, where it planned a high-end resort, were not up for sale at the time.

Oceanwide did manage to dispose of one of its U.S. properties last year, selling a 358-acre Sonoma Valley site in California to Ron Burkle’s Yucaipa Companies for an undisclosed sum. An Oceanwide subsidiary paid $41 million for the site in 2014 and secured approval for a 50-room hotel, spa and restaurant.

If last year’s will-they-or-won’t-they saga with Hony Capital is any indication, selling off the stalled San Francisco and L.A. projects will not be easy — especially as Oceanwide hopes to maintain naming rights and some control of the projects, sources said. Even as the impact of the pandemic subsides, the projects remain mired in lawsuits.

While several buyers reportedly expressed interest in Oceanwide Center early this year, a deal has yet to materialize. Meanwhile, in May, Swinerton Builders and Webcor Construction — contractors on the San Francisco project — sued Oceanwide over a mechanic’s lien of more than $108 million.


In L.A., legal wrangling at Oceanwide Plaza has dragged on since early 2019, with mechanics’ liens on that project now totaling more than $240 million. And it’s not just construction firms that are suing to get paid.

In February, a group of eight Chinese EB-5 investors sued Oceanwide Plaza’s senior credit line lender, L.A. Downtown Investment LP, over alleged mismanagement of their investment in the project. Oceanwide is not a party to the suit, although the filing did result in a notice of legal action being placed on the property.

While 273 EB-5 investors provided a total of $136.5 million for the Downtown L.A. mixed-use project, Oceanwide had difficulty securing the additional funding it needed, court filings show. This was partially due to the actions of the investors’ LP itself, which refused to subordinate the EB-5 money to a new bridge construction loan

Around April 2020, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services had begun denying investors’ EB-5 petitions because it had determined the project had stopped, according to the lawsuit. In September, Oceanwide allegedly missed a $5 million payment to investors, putting the loan in default.

The EB-5 suit has caused further problems with Oceanwide Plaza’s financing. “The lawsuit prevented Oceanwide’s new potential lender and the lender’s title insurance company from completing their due diligence for the loan closing,” the developer’s lawyers wrote in a May joint status report.

Despite the termination of that deal, Oceanwide says the lender is still prepared to close — no earlier than August — provided that the developer settles its many suits with subcontractors.

The project’s contractors are less optimistic.

Despite claims to the contrary, “it does not appear that Oceanwide has made progress in closing on said loan,” Webcor’s lawyers wrote in the same status report.

And in an ominous note, Oceanwide said it now believes that the L.A. project’s “valuation amount is insufficient to cover the costs incurred,” according to a filing on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange.

How Oceanwide handles its two California megaprojects will help determine whether it can deal with pressures on its other businesses.

Last month, Chinese rating agency Golden Credit Rating International downgraded the company twice, from AA+ to AA- to A with a negative outlook, citing a number of concerning events.

Among them was Oceanwide’s disclosure in April that a Wuhan court had frozen several of its real estate assets in the city in connection with various legal disputes.

In May, the company announced it had refinanced $146 million out of a total $280 million in debt that had come due, while the remainder of that debt would be extended to August — further highlighting its looming debt.

“Due to the adverse impact of a number of factors including the macroeconomic environment, the regulations on real estate and financial industry and the Covid-19 pandemic, Oceanwide Holdings … is facing a temporary cash flow issue,” the company’s Hong Kong subsidiary disclosed at the time.

Funds for debt repayment would be raised from “expedited sales of real estate projects” and “intended disposal of certain offshore assets,” the disclosure continued.

In the meantime, Oceanwide’s projects in L.A., San Francisco and New York are still on pause and there is no timeline for the Honolulu development.

“We always thought [Oceanwide] was circling the drain,” said the construction project manager, referring to the San Francisco sale in limbo and the scuttled Genworth deal. “It looks like the circles are getting smaller now.”
https://therealdeal.com/issues_artic...-sinks-deeper/
     
     
  #1198  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2021, 7:09 PM
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The houses of cards China’s developers have built are collapsing. I hope this forces Oceanwide to sell their US properties soon.

Quote:
Pop Goes the Chinese Property Bubble?
Evergrande may become the biggest casualty but it won’t be the last.
By The Editorial Board
Sept. 16, 2021 6:39 pm ET

And for his next act, President Xi Jinping will attempt his most daring economic feat to date: pricking China’s property bubble without collapsing the economy.

To get a sense of the danger, consider China Evergrande Group. That company, headquartered in Shenzhen with shares listed in Hong Kong, is one of the country’s largest property developers. It’s sitting on liabilities of some $300 billion, and that “b” isn’t a typo. The company seems not to know how to repay and has brought in external advisers to devise a plan.

This is happening now because Mr. Xi’s economic strategy is to consolidate the Communist Party’s grip on business, while tackling the wealth inequality the Party believes undermines whatever legitimacy it has. Beijing last year rolled out new controls on the real-estate market to advance both goals.

The new rules include limiting mortgages and credit to developers at 40% of banks’ loan books, and requiring developers such as Evergrande to repay existing debt before borrowing more. The rules are supposed to rein in politically contentious home-price rises while cutting over-leveraged developers down to size. It’s working, to judge from data Wednesday showing house sales by value fell 19.7% year-on-year in August.

This is part of a broader campaign to impose credit discipline across the economy. Beijing tolerated defaults on $18 billion of debt in the first half of the year, a record, and is on track to hit a new record for all of 2021. State-owned enterprises are among the deadbeats.

Evergrande may be allowed to default on some bonds or bank loans, but Beijing probably has the capacity to avert a total collapse . . . .

The main problem is figuring out where the danger lies. Evergrande’s $89 billion in loans and bonds is only part of the picture. Far bigger are the liabilities the company owes to suppliers. Some of that debt must now be circulating through China’s financial gray market in which the sale of assets such as accounts receivable can substitute for normal bank credit.

Now multiply this stress across the other property developers likely to run into trouble as Beijing’s housing cool-down continues—and add their suppliers, homeowners whose properties may sag in value, and banks that loaned them money. Talk of a Chinese “Lehman moment”—a financial collapse and recession akin to the failure of Lehman Brothers in 2008—is premature. But the credit correction that Beijing is launching may be harder to manage than the Party’s central planners think.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/pop-goe...pos_6#cxrecs_s
     
     
  #1199  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 1:18 AM
theskysthelimit theskysthelimit is offline
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San Francisco's stalled, 2 million-square-foot Oceanwide Center has changed hands — but not in the manner for which its owners have long hoped.

After two failed sales, an increasing number of lawsuits and over $150 million in mechanics liens for unpaid work by contractors, Chinese owner Oceanwide Holdings' problems just got deeper. Creditors have taken over the project as collateral after two of its subsidiaries missed payments of notes worth $321.5 million, the company announced via a regulatory filing. Reuters first reported on the seizure.
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...a8Om6ytYPatPpe
     
     
  #1200  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 1:22 AM
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^^Big plus! The creditors aren't developers. They will want to quickly unload the project if they can at a price that will make them whole (but which should be reasonable for a buyer).
     
     
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