Walking around Nashville, TN - Downtown & Germantown

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by jkc2j

Not sure what naming Cornelius Vanderbilt has to do with anything, the school is in Nashville, can't change that.

Andrew Carnegie and the Mellons did a ton of business in Pittsburgh and that's why there is a Carnegie-Mellon University. Leonard Case was from Cleveland and that's why they have Case Western Reserve.

The bolded sentence reads like a certain line from Space Balls:

"The $1 million that he gave to endow and build the university was Vanderbilt's only major philanthropy. Methodist Bishop Holland N. McTyeire of Nashville, husband of Amelia Townsend who was a cousin of Vanderbilt's young second wife Frank Crawford, went to New York for medical treatment early in 1873 and spent time recovering in the Vanderbilt mansion. He won the Vanderbilts' admiration and support for the project of building a university in the South that would "contribute to strengthening the ties which should exist between all sections of our common country."

The world is really that random, folks.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

^There are many schools the size of MTSU that don't motivate much if any business/population attraction.

Lansing, MI is the capital of a state with significantly more people than Tennessee (meaning it ought to have more government jobs than Nashville) and it's home to Michigan State, a public university with about 30,000 students, yet Lansing's population has been level, around 400-450k, for about 50 years.

There are many gigantic universities in small cities and towns that never attract anything. Ithaca, NY has Cornell and Ithaca College, yet no growth company has ever taken root there. Nothing has ever happened in State College, PA or College Station, TX.

There's many things than can cause a city to boom. As Texcitement mentioned, Nashville's was a combination of all the things he listed with the addition of having a bunch of universities. My only point was to show there is a correlation between mid sized cities population growth and these cities having at least one or many major universities with large student populations.

I can't speak for those smaller cities, they're more or less college towns, could be a variety of reasons why they never saw fast growth. I was specifically referring to mid sized metros, populations over one million.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Andrew Carnegie and the Mellons did a ton of business in Pittsburgh and that's why there is a Carnegie-Mellon University. Leonard Case was from Cleveland and that's why they have Case Western Reserve.

The bolded sentence reads like a certain line from Space Balls:

"The $1 million that he gave to endow and build the university was Vanderbilt's only major philanthropy. Methodist Bishop Holland N. McTyeire of Nashville, husband of Amelia Townsend who was a cousin of Vanderbilt's young second wife Frank Crawford, went to New York for medical treatment early in 1873 and spent time recovering in the Vanderbilt mansion. He won the Vanderbilts' admiration and support for the project of building a university in the South that would "contribute to strengthening the ties which should exist between all sections of our common country."

The world is really that random, folks.

Sounds to me you're a bit jealous lol.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by jkc2j

My only point was to show there is a correlation between mid sized cities population growth and these cities having at least one or many major universities with large student populations.

With the fresh census data, we see that many mid and major MSA's that lack flagship public universities or noteworthy research universities are growing as fast or faster than those that do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_areas

Dallas and Houston continued their rapid growth in the 2010s and will be knocking on Chicago's door by 2030. Neither has the state's flagship public university. Houston has the noteworthy by tiny Rice University and Dallas has no research university at all.

How can any claim be made that Vanderbilt - a pretty small school - is a major driver of Nashville's growth, when Houston is growing much faster with a smaller research school, and Dallas has none at all?

Per the fresh census data, Nashville MSA grew by 343,000 residents 2010-2020 but Houston MSA and Dallas MSA each grew by 1.2 million. There is no comparison.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

With the fresh census data, we see that many mid and major MSA's that lack flagship public universities or noteworthy research universities are growing as fast or faster than those that do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_areas

Dallas and Houston continued their rapid growth in the 2010s and will be knocking on Chicago's door by 2030. Neither has the state's flagship public university. Houston has the noteworthy by tiny Rice University and Dallas has no research university at all.

How can any claim be made that Vanderbilt - a pretty small school - is a major driver of Nashville's growth, when Houston is growing much faster with a smaller research school, and Dallas has none at all?

Per the fresh census data, Nashville MSA grew by 343,000 residents 2010-2020 but Houston MSA and Dallas MSA each grew by 1.2 million. There is no comparison.

It's apparent you're not reading my posts or lacking in severe reading comprehension. I've stated many times "mid sized" cities". Metros in the 1.5-2.5 million range. And no where did I say having a flagship or a bunch of universities is the primary reason for all cities growth as you intentionally brought up much larger cities which have nothing to do with my initial posts. It's difficult to argue the correlation as it pertains to "mid sized cities" (especially one's that have large or prestigious research universities) but as stated many times, having large or prestigious schools or having a large student population is only one of many factors though a major one for "mid sized" cities. Charlotte is the exception to this, (though now they have UNCC and are investing in a medical school). Also notice, you have yet to refute anything from Texicement's last post as it specifically pertains to Nashville's growth, which is the topic at hand and direct response to you're asinine assertions the city lacks any quantifiable reasons for it's growth. You're essentially reaching for straws because you have no argument.

[Texcitement]

Orlando and Columbus are booming last I checked. It helps to understand the distinction between "College Towns" and cities with Colleges/Universities. Also many of those large universities would not be so big if not for the their rapidly growing cities. I think that also applies to MTSU, which is very much a presence in Nashville. With so much else going on, Nashville is not (never was) a college town.

I merely mentioned Vandy as one of so many assets that have made Nashville a boomtown. It could probably be said that Vandy's presence in the early days may have kept Nashville from becoming a place like Jackson, MS or Frankfort, KY, or Montgomery, AL, all small southern capitals.

Remember that Vanderbilt University was not established by Cornelius Vanderbilt. His decision to give $1 million for establishing the school was not entirely random. Bishop McTyeire was an in-law of Vanderbilt and a close friend. The saying goes that CV was old and failing in health and he wanted to make right with God (so he wrote a check).

McTyeire had been working to establish a Methodist college primarily for the divinity school for years before the Commodore opened his checkbook. Side note: SMU in Dallas was started after Vandy severed ties with the United Methodist Church. It's also true that for its first 75 years of existence, the school was primarily a college for Tennessee "locals" and people from the South. I frequently talk with elderly folks (80s+) who tell tales of paying $200 per semester to attend Vandy.

Nashville has a solid claim to making Vandy as great a school as it became. A million in 1870 was surely a lot, but not enough even then to sustain a school for decades. It was Vandy's graduate schools that propelled it to World Class status. Early on, students came to Nashville to attend Med, Law and Divinity schools. As they prospered at all the places they settled, they sent their children to Vandy. Many stayed over time and built Nashville into the place it is today. Many of the companies I named above were founded by Vandy grads.

As the two most reputable universities in the South, Vandy gets compared to Duke a lot, but I've been told that the big difference is that graduates from Duke went North after graduating in its early years and Vandy's stayed in the South. Vandy and Nashvlle benefited tremendously from having their graduates contribute to a growing South in the early part of the last century.

[hauntedheadnc]

jmecklenborg--

After reading this thread and others where you've made your feelings about Nashville abundantly known, I'm curious... Nashville is obviously unfit to live, so what population would the city need to drop to, by way of apology, in order to get you to stop bitching about it? 200,000? 100,000? 50,000?

Or is this one of those situations where, much like Carthage, the only thing that will suffice is to level the city, brick from brick, and salt the earth where it stood?

[harryc]

Not at all how I remember Nashville - or Germantown , but it has been more than a few decades.

ty

[Texcitement]

An article from the Journal about another firm moving out of a high tax state. Yet another high profile financial firm making its way to a state with no income tax. State Street to Florida.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/state-s...ts_pos5&page=1

Comparative tax rates do make a difference, and the wealth, like people, is mobile.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

jmecklenborg--

After reading this thread and others where you've made your feelings about Nashville abundantly known, I'm curious... Nashville is obviously unfit to live, so what population would the city need to drop to, by way of apology, in order to get you to stop bitching about it? 200,000? 100,000? 50,000?

Or is this one of those situations where, much like Carthage, the only thing that will suffice is to level the city, brick from brick, and salt the earth where it stood?

Right.. It's like he's stuck in 1996 or something lol. He lived in Nashville in the 90's, moved away in 2001, but somehow laments all of the changes that's been happening over the years (which makes no sense, as he no longer lives here and hasn't in 20 years), yet he continues to visit every single year not realizing the city has been steadily growing since consolidation in the 60's. It's only accelerated in growth the last 5 years.

It's like, "how dare Nashville grow into a bigger city" lol.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

jmecklenborg--
Or is this one of those situations where, much like Carthage, the only thing that will suffice is to level the city, brick from brick, and salt the earth where it stood?

Well it is a bit of a Potemkin Village, so it won't take much physical effort.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Texcitement

An article from the Journal about another firm moving out of a high tax state. Yet another high profile financial firm making its way to a state with no income tax. State Street to Florida.

Comparative tax rates do make a difference, and the wealth, like people, is mobile.

Meanwhile, NYC gained several hundred thousand residents within city limits since 2010. Not so long ago, large sections of Manhattan were semi-abandoned and the Brooklyn waterfront was a wasteland.

A 2 million sq foot tower was just announced next to Grand Central and the soon-to-open East Side Access terminal. This in addition to the new One Vanderbilt. Reports of NYC's death are greatly exaggerated.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by jkc2j

It's like, "how dare Nashville grow into a bigger city" lol.

It didn't pay its dues. The "success" appeared too easily, like a downloaded app.

Nashville didn't have pro sports so there was no humiliation from the loss of a pro team, like how Cleveland lost The Browns. Nashville didn't have big department stores downtown so there was no humiliation when they closed. Nashville hasn't lost historic landmarks because...it never had any. It never had the giant plant closings because...it never had any. It's never lost the HQ of a major bank or company because...it never had any.

For decades, innumerable grassroots efforts worked in dozens of U.S. cities to stop freeways, preserve historic buildings, get public transportation projects built, and to attract people back to neighborhoods with gallery walks and other arts activities. These grassroots efforts took on their respective area's blue bloods and when the establishment took action they mercilessly punished those ordinary citizens who dared challenge them. I personally know people who attacked in the courts and run out of town for the crime of caring about their home cities.

Nashville was spared all of that, like the youngest child who doesn't remember the war its older siblings witnessed.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

It didn't pay its dues. The "success" appeared too easily, like a downloaded app.

Nashville didn't have pro sports so there was no humiliation from the loss of a pro team, like how Cleveland lost The Browns. Nashville didn't have big department stores downtown so there was no humiliation when they closed. Nashville hasn't lost historic landmarks because...it never had any. It never had the giant plant closings because...it never had any. It's never lost the HQ of a major bank or company because...it never had any.

For decades, innumerable grassroots efforts worked in dozens of U.S. cities to stop freeways, preserve historic buildings, get public transportation projects built, and to attract people back to neighborhoods with gallery walks and other arts activities. These grassroots efforts took on their respective area's blue bloods and when the establishment took action they mercilessly punished those ordinary citizens who dared challenge them. I personally know people who attacked in the courts and run out of town for the crime of caring about their home cities.

Nashville was spared all of that, like the youngest child who doesn't remember the war its older siblings witnessed.

Really??.. So you're disdain for a place is due to your biased affinity for rust belt cities? Get a grip, cities are not some immutable organism that stays stationary for a life time. Cities that want to grow, change and adapt to the times. It's unfortunate what happened to a lot of rust belt cities but it stood as a lesson for up and coming cities in the growing South and West to not heavily rely on one industry. Also, while Nashville has never had the abundance of historic structures as cities in the Midwest and East coast, the city has lost a ton of historic structures (by southern city standards) over the years, whether to natural disasters, urban renewal or gentrification. The population of the city in 1910 was roughly 110,364 (pre consolidation when the city was roughly 30 square miles) which was not too far off from cities like, Memphis and Atlanta at the time and much larger than cities like Charlotte, Raleigh and Austin. Heck Nashville was even larger than Dallas and Houston at this time but was quickly surpassed due to the Texas oil boom, so the structures were there. Let's not act like the city was some podunk town of 3,000 people that just blew up 5 years ago. If you're pissed off about the growth in Nashville, you might as well get pissed off at every sun belt city in the South and West as all of these cites have experienced growth at the expense of rust belt cities.

https://www.pinterest.com/deh8863/hi...-nashville-tn/

[Texcitement]

J, I gave you too much credit for knowing much about Nashville. First, the notion that all cities must "pay dues" (whatever that means) to become a major city is just strange. I mean, in 2010 Nashville had a devastating flood that caused deaths and billions of dollars in damage; and it garnered scant mention on the national news shows. It was as though nobody outside Tennessee even cared about what was as devastating as Katrina. Nashville has endured devastating natural and manmade disasters, one as recently as last Christmas; not to mention three bloody Civil War battles. A quick history lesson of America in the late 1800s/early 1900s reveals that businesses avoided the South for what it did to the country. Southerners were on their own. Disasters? I've been in midtown when the power across the city was out after a tornado, and all that could be heard were sirens from emergency vehicles navigating their way to help people.

The idea that there were no historical buildings or shops downtown is simply false. There were a half-dozen large department stores anchoring Church Street, one was built in a whole block and had live monkeys on display. And no big financial firms? You should read about the fall of Caldwell and Co. during the Depression. It was the reason Nashville was called "The Wall Street of the South". Twenty years ago Nashville's last large regional bank was sold to an even bigger regional bank. First American National was larger at one time than Nationsbank (NCNB). There were many ornate buildings from the 1800s intentionally demolished in the name of urban renewal after WW2. There was a complete Italianate 'square' around the courthouse gone in shameless destruction. Look at photos of downtown Nashville from the 1970s to the 90s and you'll see a vast sea of parking lots. Fortunately, there are still a lot of historic buildings, and they've been saved and renovated. Is it Colonial Williamsburg? Of course not. Those buildings contain thriving businesses you may not even know you're in a 150 year old building. Nashville has done a better job at renovation than my hometown Dallas and even Austin. Lest you forget, the state capitol building is recognized around the world as the best example of classic Greek revival architecture. William Strickland was lauded as the best architect in the country when he designed the building. From Philadelphia he took so much pride in the building that he chose to have his remains entombed in it. History? Nashville has tons of it. Did you know the first seeing-eye dog trainer was a Nashvillian? The first woman to fly from Montreal to Mexico City? The worst passenger rail disaster in American history? The first populist (7th) president of the USA made his home, The Hermitage the center of American power in the 1830s.

Nashville has destroyed as much history as any city its size. Despite its relative small size, plenty of grand hotels fell to the wrecking ball or fire. The lone survivor is a grand Beaux Arts gem that fortunately is a tribute to the city. A beautiful Italianate Carnegie library was demolished and beautiful neoclassical office towers (National Life) and art deco buildings (Sudekum, Genesco and WSM). And white flight left its scars on the city's downtown too. The west side of the hill that the Capitol sits on was a slum. The east side had ornate row houses and mansions that fell into disrepair before replaced by state office buildings. The neighborhood where you took your pictures was a thriving community of German Catholic immigrants. The oldest Catholic churches in the South (outside New Orleans) are located downtown, Church of the Assumption and St. Mary's (also a Strickland building). Urban renewal certainly left a mixed record on Nashville's CBD. And just about any of the buildings along Broadway that now contain bars and honky tonks could have been bought for a pittance as recently as when you lived here. You should know better!

I'm sorry but your comment above does sound like what jkc2j called jealousy. Is it? I looked back over this thread and didn't see if you mentioned your city. For some reason, I assume it's somewhere in Ohio, and I love all the Ohio cities. But your point about professional sports was unfair. I promise there were as many (more?) Nashvillians who opposed paying for the sports 'palaces' the teams demanded. Nissan Stadium was a state project. "Nashville" didn't go out shopping for the Titans (Oilers). Bud Adams moved the team here in a snit when he didn't get a new dome. He called Governor Bredesen, who saw the opportunity. Getting the hockey team (NHL) was more of an accident. A Wisconsin billionaire wanted a new hobby in his favorite sport, and Nashville was already building what became Bridgestone Arena. It was on track to being a "White Elephant". Nobody thought NHL would succeed here. Atlanta's team was already floundering. Hockey surprisingly became a big hit in Nashville, but that came after fits and starts. Don't you think the city deserves credit for supporting a startup expansion team so strongly?

You may never like Nashville for whatever reasons. Maybe it holds bad memories/experiences from living here in the 90s or it's not cosmopolitan enough for you. Just know that this boom is not going to end soon. With over thirty new high-rises planned downtown and thousands of jobs on the way, it's actually just starting. We'll get our transit situation straightened out eventually. The current mayor says he has a plan he will unveil this fall. Who knows? No one here is selling Nashville as Shangri La, but maybe you'll find room to like it at some point, or maybe never. I moved here from a city with an incredible boom underway that I thought I'd never see anywhere else. Well, this one here is so similar sometimes I even forget I'm not in Austin. This boom is real. So my suggestion is to stop twisting yourself inside-out trying to figure it out and enjoy the time you spend here at your parents'. It's ok to be amazed by the changes. I am.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by Texcitement

J, I gave you too much credit for knowing much about Nashville. First, the notion that all cities must "pay dues" (whatever that means) to become a major city is just strange. I mean, in 2010 Nashville had a devastating flood that caused deaths and billions of dollars in damage; and it garnered scant mention on the national news shows. It was as though nobody outside Tennessee even cared about what was as devastating as Katrina. Nashville has endured devastating natural and manmade disasters, one as recently as last Christmas; not to mention three bloody Civil War battles. A quick history lesson of America in the late 1800s/early 1900s reveals that businesses avoided the South for what it did to the country. Southerners were on their own. Disasters? I've been in midtown when the power across the city was out after a tornado, and all that could be heard were sirens from emergency vehicles navigating their way to help people.

The idea that there were no historical buildings or shops downtown is simply false. There were a half-dozen large department stores anchoring Church Street, one was built in a whole block and had live monkeys on display. And no big financial firms? You should read about the fall of Caldwell and Co. during the Depression. It was the reason Nashville was called "The Wall Street of the South". Twenty years ago Nashville's last large regional bank was sold to an even bigger regional bank. First American National was larger at one time than Nationsbank (NCNB). There were many ornate buildings from the 1800s intentionally demolished in the name of urban renewal after WW2. There was a complete Italianate 'square' around the courthouse gone in shameless destruction. Look at photos of downtown Nashville from the 1970s to the 90s and you'll see a vast sea of parking lots. Fortunately, there are still a lot of historic buildings, and they've been saved and renovated. Is it Colonial Williamsburg? Of course not. Those buildings contain thriving businesses you may not even know you're in a 150 year old building. Nashville has done a better job at renovation than my hometown Dallas and even Austin. Lest you forget, the state capitol building is recognized around the world as the best example of classic Greek revival architecture. William Strickland was lauded as the best architect in the country when he designed the building. From Philadelphia he took so much pride in the building that he chose to have his remains entombed in it. History? Nashville has tons of it. Did you know the first seeing-eye dog trainer was a Nashvillian? The first woman to fly from Montreal to Mexico City? The worst passenger rail disaster in American history? The first populist (7th) president of the USA made his home, The Hermitage the center of American power in the 1830s.

Nashville has destroyed as much history as any city its size. Despite its relative small size, plenty of grand hotels fell to the wrecking ball or fire. The lone survivor is a grand Beaux Arts gem that fortunately is a tribute to the city. A beautiful Italianate Carnegie library was demolished and beautiful neoclassical office towers (National Life) and art deco buildings (Sudekum, Genesco and WSM). And white flight left its scars on the city's downtown too. The west side of the hill that the Capitol sits on was a slum. The east side had ornate row houses and mansions that fell into disrepair before replaced by state office buildings. The neighborhood where you took your pictures was a thriving community of German Catholic immigrants. The oldest Catholic churches in the South (outside New Orleans) are located downtown, Church of the Assumption and St. Mary's (also a Strickland building). Urban renewal certainly left a mixed record on Nashville's CBD. And just about any of the buildings along Broadway that now contain bars and honky tonks could have been bought for a pittance as recently as when you lived here. You should know better!

I'm sorry but your comment above does sound like what jkc2j called jealousy. Is it? I looked back over this thread and didn't see if you mentioned your city. For some reason, I assume it's somewhere in Ohio, and I love all the Ohio cities. But your point about professional sports was unfair. I promise there were as many (more?) Nashvillians who opposed paying for the sports 'palaces' the teams demanded. Nissan Stadium was a state project. "Nashville" didn't go out shopping for the Titans (Oilers). Bud Adams moved the team here in a snit when he didn't get a new dome. He called Governor Bredesen, who saw the opportunity. Getting the hockey team (NHL) was more of an accident. A Wisconsin billionaire wanted a new hobby in his favorite sport, and Nashville was already building what became Bridgestone Arena. It was on track to being a "White Elephant". Nobody thought NHL would succeed here. Atlanta's team was already floundering. Hockey surprisingly became a big hit in Nashville, but that came after fits and starts. Don't you think the city deserves credit for supporting a startup expansion team so strongly?

You may never like Nashville for whatever reasons. Maybe it holds bad memories/experiences from living here in the 90s or it's not cosmopolitan enough for you. Just know that this boom is not going to end soon. With over thirty new high-rises planned downtown and thousands of jobs on the way, it's actually just starting. We'll get our transit situation straightened out eventually. The current mayor says he has a plan he will unveil this fall. Who knows? No one here is selling Nashville as Shangri La, but maybe you'll find room to like it at some point, or maybe never. I moved here from a city with an incredible boom underway that I thought I'd never see anywhere else. Well, this one here is so similar sometimes I even forget I'm not in Austin. This boom is real. So my suggestion is to stop twisting yourself inside-out trying to figure it out and enjoy the time you spend here at your parents'. It's ok to be amazed by the changes. I am.

Not to delve too far off topic but jmecklenborg is a known Nashville basher. He's spouted quite a few asinine statements in previous threads. Try reading through this one if you get the chance. Some really interesting and ignorant statements with regards to Nashville's history. He's gone as far as stating hot chicken was "invented in 2017" and "the recipe was stolen from KFC" lol. Most of the things he states here are just a continuation of previous threads.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=247618

[Texcitement]

Sadly I realized that too late, after spending too much time answering him/her. I attributed that to mental density on his/her part at first, then I thought no one is that hardheaded. I noticed a lot of his/her photos were unflattering like s/he had to go out of his/her way to find some of the least flattering images of Germantown (and still it looks quite good). I thought that was his/her attempt at realism and never thought it was intended to show a negative side of our beautiful city. I know better now. There are so many more flattering images of Germantown that s/he had to have walked/driven past but didn't capture the image s/he wanted. Most of those pictures are not in close proximity to each other' so s/he had to wander around a lot of area. I mean, who does that? And yet, they still show a great image of a former slum changing for the better. Noticed s/he did not post any of the larger projects underway there. S/he did not show any of the stunning buildings in other inner ring neighborhoods either. The irony of what s/he posted is many of those homes are selling for upward of $700,000. People want to be in Nashville.

I did read some of his/her previous posts on your suggestion, and I can only conclude that you are right about him/her. This was a stimulative conversation until now. I'm done here. Say goodbye to my best of intentions.

PS: Do you know where s/he lives?

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by Texcitement

Sadly I realized that too late, after spending too much time answering him/her. I attributed that to mental density on his/her part at first, then I thought no one is that hardheaded. I noticed a lot of his/her photos were unflattering like s/he had to go out of his/her way to find some of the least flattering images of Germantown (and still it looks quite good). I thought that was his/her attempt at realism and never thought it was intended to show a negative side of our beautiful city. I know better now. There are so many more flattering images of Germantown that s/he had to have walked/driven past but didn't capture the image s/he wanted. Most of those pictures are not in close proximity to each other' so s/he had to wander around a lot of area. I mean, who does that? And yet, they still show a great image of a former slum changing for the better. Noticed s/he did not post any of the larger projects underway there. S/he did not show any of the stunning buildings in other inner ring neighborhoods either. The irony of what s/he posted is many of those homes are selling for upward of $700,000. People want to be in Nashville.

I did read some of his/her previous posts on your suggestion, and I can only conclude that you are right about him/her. This was a stimulative conversation until now. I'm done here. Say goodbye to my best of intentions.

PS: Do you know where s/he lives?

I believe jmecklenborg is a he and lives in Columbus, OH based on his previous posts. Kind of ironic as it's another fast growing city albeit the Midwest. It's also interesting even when given the choice in Ohio, he decided on the younger fast growing college city over the well established rust belt cities lol. I wonder if he even has the same complaints about Columbus overtaking both Cleveland and Cincinnati in city population as historically it's been much smaller and wasn't as heavily reliant on manufacturing as other midwestern cities. Then again he probably gives Columbus a pass since it's in Ohio, which is interesting because based on jmecklenborg's logic on Nashville, Columbus hadn't paid it's dues yet lol.