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  #48481  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2021, 9:57 PM
Ned.B Ned.B is offline
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VivaLFuego has succeeded in finding the exceptions to the rule. But all three examples are in areas with very poor housing values and desirability overall. In the case of Robbins, the new construction examples are the only houses that have sold for over $150,000 in the last few years and we don't know anything of the profit margins achieved building there. I have toured the Wellington development ion Lynwood and I can comfortably say that those houses are literally built of ticky-tacky, and the one's that were built 10 years ago already look rough. I think it still stands that in most places, a new house of this size cannot be had in the 300,000 range.

I think it is worth noting though, making this an even more apples to oranges comparison that the cost of a new home purchase typically includes the lot while the cost of construction we are seeing for multi-family likely does not. And so that makes the comparison of cost even more disparate. But overall, I don't think the cost of these multi-family buildings has been overinflated. It's just the cost of building something quality versus a vinyl clad and vinyl windowed stick framed box. And it's part of the reason that quality affordable housing will never organically occur in new construction and will always need to be subsidized to some degree.
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  #48482  
Old Posted May 1, 2021, 4:48 AM
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Building permit issued to build a new 5 story, 56 unit and retail building with 21 parking spaces at 825 e 61st St in Woodlawn. Right at the southern portion of U of Chicago campus, and a few blocks from the Cottage Grove Green Line stop. Not sure if it's associated with that semi new development nearby with the MetroSquash.

Will gobble up a vacant lot.
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  #48483  
Old Posted May 1, 2021, 4:15 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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the old blessed sacrament building at 2130 s central park is in the process of being demod. tragedy.

https://chicagoyimby.com/2021/04/dem...-lawndale.html

Last edited by Via Chicago; May 1, 2021 at 4:27 PM.
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  #48484  
Old Posted May 1, 2021, 6:33 PM
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VivaLFuego VivaLFuego is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned.B View Post
VivaLFuego has succeeded in finding the exceptions to the rule. But all three examples are in areas with very poor housing values and desirability overall. In the case of Robbins, the new construction examples are the only houses that have sold for over $150,000 in the last few years and we don't know anything of the profit margins achieved building there. I have toured the Wellington development ion Lynwood and I can comfortably say that those houses are literally built of ticky-tacky, and the one's that were built 10 years ago already look rough. I think it still stands that in most places, a new house of this size cannot be had in the 300,000 range.

I think it is worth noting though, making this an even more apples to oranges comparison that the cost of a new home purchase typically includes the lot while the cost of construction we are seeing for multi-family likely does not. And so that makes the comparison of cost even more disparate. But overall, I don't think the cost of these multi-family buildings has been overinflated. It's just the cost of building something quality versus a vinyl clad and vinyl windowed stick framed box. And it's part of the reason that quality affordable housing will never organically occur in new construction and will always need to be subsidized to some degree.
Well yes, that's the subtext. If you strip away mountains of code and quality requirements that have become de rigueur and find cheap land, affordable new construction is still possible even without getting into the manufactured/trailer housing realm. The high costs of new housing are otherwise self-imposed*, particularly in a stagnant region with lots of low dirt values.

Speaking of those low dirt values (notable in Robbins which has otherwise good downtown commuter rail access and decent expressway access)...There are also tangential questions about the viability and unintended consequences of a "densification" strategy upon places like Robbins, a town of some historic African American significance whose property values are too low to incentivize maintenance of the building stock.

*The Chicago MSA also has arguably the highest wages for construction trades in the country, particularly if adjusting for regional median wages across all jobs or adjusting for cost of living. Only SF and Honolulu have higher construction wages, and even then only barely. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes470000.htm
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  #48485  
Old Posted May 1, 2021, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
the old blessed sacrament building at 2130 s central park is in the process of being demod. tragedy.

https://chicagoyimby.com/2021/04/dem...-lawndale.html
"Despite the historic facade, reports of the interior condition indicate that preservation may not have been viable."
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  #48486  
Old Posted May 2, 2021, 5:44 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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"Despite the historic facade, reports of the interior condition indicate that preservation may not have been viable."
I gurantee you this is bullshit. I could have and would have bought this building if I knew the situation before they decided to take it down.
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  #48487  
Old Posted May 2, 2021, 2:02 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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It is BS, but the decision was nevertheless financial. They probably didn’t think that market rents in the area would justify the investment.

And they aren’t wrong in one way. Post-Covid rents have taken quite a hit, and it will negatively impact the “rehabbing historic buildings” market. Economic downturns DO have consequences.
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  #48488  
Old Posted May 2, 2021, 2:03 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
I gurantee you this is bullshit. I could have and would have bought this building if I knew the situation before they decided to take it down.
Yeah, I mean if you could get it for free like you did that one building you rehabbed on W Cullerton then that’s the difference. It all depends on the acquisition price, I guess
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  #48489  
Old Posted May 3, 2021, 1:28 PM
Ned.B Ned.B is offline
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
"Despite the historic facade, reports of the interior condition indicate that preservation may not have been viable."
ChicagoYimby actually misread the listing text. It said the interior condition of the two story convent next door and on the same site is in poor condition and could be demolished to provide parking for the school building. There was nothing I saw that suggested the building in question was not viable for reuse.

What's unfortunate is that between convent and school, the site is currently built out to almost twice it's lot area, but current zoning only allows for 1.2 FAR, so whatever we get will be much less dense in addition to losing a historic facade. If we are lucky, we will get a 3 story 17,000 sf apartment building with parking in the rear, but we could also end up with 3 two flats or 3 single family homes with that zoning.
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  #48490  
Old Posted May 3, 2021, 4:19 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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ADU Pilot is now live:

https://www.chicago.gov/adu
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  #48491  
Old Posted May 3, 2021, 4:37 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^ Yeah, I've been watching out for that for a while. BIG criticism on this one:

1. In typical Chicago fashion, they make it too damn complicated and byzantine. Do any of the people who write these laws understand that property owners have lives and families too? What is with this aversion to simplicity?

2. Why did they have to use pilot zones? Ridiculous how they are mucking up zoning in this city with this pseudo-"spot" zoning stuff. They should have consistent rules everywhere, again for simplicity. None of my properties fall within any of the pilot zones

This new ADU law should be a few lines long:

1. RS3 or higher, you can build a coach house, a basement unit, or an attic unit (one of the three)

2. See #1

3. Good luck!

That's all that's needed. People will build this stuff LEFT and RIGHT, and housing costs will go down. Lots of laborers will be employed doing the work. A win for all!

But noooooo...... we wouldn't want to make it that simple
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  #48492  
Old Posted May 3, 2021, 6:01 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Yeah, I've been watching out for that for a while. BIG criticism on this one:

1. In typical Chicago fashion, they make it too damn complicated and byzantine. Do any of the people who write these laws understand that property owners have lives and families too? What is with this aversion to simplicity?

2. Why did they have to use pilot zones? Ridiculous how they are mucking up zoning in this city with this pseudo-"spot" zoning stuff. They should have consistent rules everywhere, again for simplicity. None of my properties fall within any of the pilot zones

This new ADU law should be a few lines long:

1. RS3 or higher, you can build a coach house, a basement unit, or an attic unit (one of the three)

2. See #1

3. Good luck!

That's all that's needed. People will build this stuff LEFT and RIGHT, and housing costs will go down. Lots of laborers will be employed doing the work. A win for all!

But noooooo...... we wouldn't want to make it that simple
yeah, reminds me of the food truck ordinance. I would bet we get as many ADU as we have food trucks. Which would be about 3 total.
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  #48493  
Old Posted May 3, 2021, 6:07 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
yeah, reminds me of the food truck ordinance. I would bet we get as many ADU as we have food trucks. Which would be about 3 total.
^ Yeah, really, then the administrators and Aldermen, elected leaders, etc will sit around scratching their heads, thinking "Gee, why didn't that work? Only 5 ADUs were built in 10 years. Hmmm, maybe we need to clarify the rules a bit, add a few more pages to the ordinance, and perhaps make it more equitable for equity and social equitification. Lets form a committee of 50 people to work on this for 5 more years so that we can make the ordinance 500 pages long!!!"
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  #48494  
Old Posted May 3, 2021, 6:28 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by Ned.B View Post
ChicagoYimby actually misread the listing text. It said the interior condition of the two story convent next door and on the same site is in poor condition and could be demolished to provide parking for the school building. There was nothing I saw that suggested the building in question was not viable for reuse.

What's unfortunate is that between convent and school, the site is currently built out to almost twice it's lot area, but current zoning only allows for 1.2 FAR, so whatever we get will be much less dense in addition to losing a historic facade. If we are lucky, we will get a 3 story 17,000 sf apartment building with parking in the rear, but we could also end up with 3 two flats or 3 single family homes with that zoning.
yeah exactly. the next door building (basically a big house) was open to the elements and clearly in bad shape, but the main one was well secured and easily could have been an adaptive reuse. in fact, when i saw workers on the site i initially got excited because i thought a reuse would be a no brainer. was gutted to see the back of the budiling being dismantled when i got further down the street. the fact this was marketed as a parking lot opportunity is demoralizing. it was easily one the nicest historic buildings in the immediate vicinity, and they clearly wasted no time between getting the permit and beginning demo work, presumably to get ahead of anyone having a chance to react to it. sadly i dont think it was even orange rated.
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  #48495  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 4:15 PM
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Hey all, loving Chicago so far. I have a question:

In Chicago, specifically on the north side, are there laws/regulations/zoning to require developers to use certain materials, namely brick and masonry? I’ve noticed that a lot of the multi-family development being built around places like Belmont are using high quality materials. I’m just used to developers in Philly slapping something together with Aluminum siding and calling it “contemporary.”
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  #48496  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 4:53 PM
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chicago yimby posted this rendering of a new development on irving just west of the irving/damen/lincoln 6 corners.



full article: https://chicagoyimby.com/2021/05/ren...th-center.html



say what you will about the retro design, but at least it's replacing this awfulness: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9540...7i16384!8i8192
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  #48497  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 4:55 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^ I saw that as well. Nothing makes my day like seeing a strip mall bit the dust and get replaced by a proper multi-story building that meets the lot lines
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  #48498  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 6:20 PM
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I prefer modern but that looks pretty damn good to me if those details are actually executed.
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  #48499  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 6:40 PM
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I prefer modern but that looks pretty damn good to me if those details are actually executed.
This condo development was proposed there before. It was rejected by the alderman after the neighbors complained about it "not fitting in."
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  #48500  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 6:43 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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This condo development was proposed there before. It was rejected by the alderman after the neighbors complained about it "not fitting in."
honestly new ones a step up from that
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