Old Halifax

[ILoveHalifax]

So for all those who are so upset about Africville do you have any solution for the slums in any city like Bombay, Rio de Janero? They should be maintained and glorified? They should conduct bus tours?

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

So for all those who are so upset about Africville do you have any solution for the slums in any city like Bombay, Rio de Janero? They should be maintained and glorified? They should conduct bus tours?

First of all, the slums in those cities are often a step up from some of the conditions in rural areas many of their inhabitants come from--they're an in-between step in urbanization.

The "solution" to the slums is not to destroy them and put up a master-planned monolithic housing project based on a purely hypothetical understanding of local needs. It would involve understand the reasons the slums exist, and working within those communities to improve infrastructure, social mobility, transportation, etc

Bulldozing communities, "slum" or not, and breaking up the social bonds that exist by moving people into other communities, often just makes things worse, as the long and failed legacy of slum clearance and subsequent housing projects in North American makes clear.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

First of all, the slums in those cities are often a step up from some of the conditions in rural areas many of their inhabitants come from--they're an in-between step in urbanization.

The "solution" to the slums is not to destroy them and put up a master-planned monolithic housing project based on a purely hypothetical understanding of local needs. It would involve understand the reasons the slums exist, and working within those communities to improve infrastructure, social mobility, transportation, etc

Bulldozing communities, "slum" or not, and breaking up the social bonds that exist by moving people into other communities, often just makes things worse, as the long and failed legacy of slum clearance and subsequent housing projects in North American makes clear.

The only real solution is to educate and train the younger residents of those areas so they can see there is an alternative to the cycle of dependence of their ancestors and can be employed in jobs where they can do so much better. Bigger handouts only make the problem worse.

[JET]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

So for all those who are so upset about Africville do you have any solution for the slums in any city like Bombay, Rio de Janero? They should be maintained and glorified? They should conduct bus tours?

The solution is never to move people to another ghetto/slum.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The only real solution is to educate and train the younger residents of those areas so they can see there is an alternative to the cycle of dependence of their ancestors and can be employed in jobs where they can do so much better. Bigger handouts only make the problem worse.

You are getting to sound a bit like a socialist. No offence intended.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by JET

I was thinking the same thing... 'One day, lad, all this will be yours.' 'What, the curtains?'

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by JET

You are getting to sound a bit like a socialist. No offence intended.

No. I would ensure they become productive citizens with respectable jobs. A socialist would recoil in horror at that.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by JET

The solution is never to move people to another ghetto/slum.

It was neither of those things until the residents arrived.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

First of all, the slums in those cities are often a step up from some of the conditions in rural areas many of their inhabitants come from--they're an in-between step in urbanization.

The "solution" to the slums is not to destroy them and put up a master-planned monolithic housing project based on a purely hypothetical understanding of local needs. It would involve understand the reasons the slums exist, and working within those communities to improve infrastructure, social mobility, transportation, etc

Bulldozing communities, "slum" or not, and breaking up the social bonds that exist by moving people into other communities, often just makes things worse, as the long and failed legacy of slum clearance and subsequent housing projects in North American makes clear.

Sounds to me like a Republican/Conservative plan to do NOTHING

[ILoveHalifax]

Many people in society have to move to improve their lot in life, sometimes for a better job, or a nicer house. It was also quite common back in the 50s and 60s. Although many people find it stressful so are lots of things in life, and many people find moving exciting and a real adventure. The people from Africville moved a few miles away from the slums they were living in, and in spite of all the hardships we hear about, that they went thru, they have been able to maintain relationships, and have managed to spread their horrific story. It is so easy to believe all the injustices, if you were not there, and did not see the conditions they were living in.

[JET]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...lues-1.4059838

Some great old photos here requiring some amateur sleuths.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

Many people in society have to move to improve their lot in life, sometimes for a better job, or a nicer house. It was also quite common back in the 50s and 60s. Although many people find it stressful so are lots of things in life, and many people find moving exciting and a real adventure. The people from Africville moved a few miles away from the slums they were living in, and in spite of all the hardships we hear about, that they went thru, they have been able to maintain relationships, and have managed to spread their horrific story. It is so easy to believe all the injustices, if you were not there, and did not see the conditions they were living in.

There's no point in engaging with this silly discussion, except that people have been talking about the inter-generational trauma of that forced relocation for decades. Yes, it had some positive aspects, but also meany negative aspects, and regardless, the ends don't justify the means.

"People find moving exciting." Jesus.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

There's no point in engaging with this silly discussion, except that people have been talking about the inter-generational trauma of that forced relocation for decades. Yes, it had some positive aspects, but also meany negative aspects, and regardless, the ends don't justify the means.

"People find moving exciting." Jesus.

Many people do. At least when it signifies improving their lot in life.

Many people seem delusional about how great things were.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Pointless discussion, though it's interesting to me how many older white guys tend to have opinions about things that they likely have never had to experience in their lives. Things like systemic racism, having your entire neighborhood forcibly removed and being relocated to a housing project, etc. etc. It's easy enough to put blame on the victims when you've never been in that situation yourselves.

But this discussion has reared its ugliness on this board many times, and I don't see any discussion changing opinions at this point in time. In the end, some people will believe whatever narrative they are comfortable with.

Enough said. Let it go.

[ILoveHalifax]

So easy to call a point of view that you don't agree with 'Silly'.
Or to call it 'Pointless' because it is stated by 'Old white guys' and to further speculate that they have no idea because they have not experienced tough times.

In response I suggest that the younger set should be less derogatory towards the old folk. They get their points of view from books that were written to encourage a slanted outcome. They were not there and did not see it.

I lived in Halifax at the time and saw Africville several times so I am aware of the conditions . I also know of the disgrace directed towards Halifax from across the country for the slums that existed in the city.

Now let's move on without the negative comments from our book learned participants.

[JET]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

So easy to call a point of view that you don't agree with 'Silly'.
Or to call it 'Pointless' because it is stated by 'Old white guys' and to further speculate that they have no idea because they have not experienced tough times.

In response I suggest that the younger set should be less derogatory towards the old folk. They get their points of view from books that were written to encourage a slanted outcome. They were not there and did not see it.

I lived in Halifax at the time and saw Africville several times so I am aware of the conditions . I also know of the disgrace directed towards Halifax from across the country for the slums that existed in the city.

Now let's move on without the negative comments from our book learned participants.

But it's OK if we carry on with the negative comments from the non booked learned participants? Just want to make sure that I'm clear on the guidelines

[OldDartmouthMark]

Ok, let's turn this thread back to something more positive.

Ever see an empty lot and wonder what used to be there? I've been driving and walking by this one on Barrington near Morris for years and never knew what used to be there... until now.

The empty lot in question:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.64152...8i6656!6m1!1e1

What used to be there...


http://gencat1.eloquent-systems.com/webcat/request/DoMenuRequest?SystemName=Halifax+Regional+Municipality+Archives&UserName=WA+Public&Password=&TemplateProcessID=6000_20185_20185&CMD_(SearchRequest)[11]=&PromptID=&ParamID=&RequesterType=SearchTemplate&browseData=1&Keyword=0&SearchLogic=%26Logic%3D%26S1%3DPOI1_1225%261POI1_1225%3D827

--->Search for "1273-77 barrington"

[fenwick16]

^^^ It looks like it caught fire, based on the rear view. A tender for its demolition was issued in 1975 - http://www.halifax.ca/archives/Halif...p0071-0109.pdf (page 102). I wonder if there have been any proposals for developing this lot?

On another topic, in the above document from 1975, there was a discussion about the clock in the "Old Post Office" that was donated to the city and moved from location to location (page 73).

[someone123]

Interesting. You can see the brick on the building to the left too.

I always felt like this stretch of Barrington had a lot of potential but was held back by many little holes and bad renos. The city hasn't dealt with this area very effectively.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

^^^ It looks like it caught fire, based on the rear view. A tender for its demolition was issued in 1975 - http://www.halifax.ca/archives/Halif...p0071-0109.pdf (page 102). I wonder if there have been any proposals for developing this lot?

On another topic, in the above document from 1975, there was a discussion about the clock in the "Old Post Office" that was donated to the city and moved from location to location (page 73).

Definitely was burned. From the boarded up windows, it might have been abandoned before it burned. Haven't seen any other information on this building, though.

The info on the clock is interesting. I wonder where it ended up.