US equivalents of Calgary?

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Is there any multifamily outside of the core in either Calgary or Edmonton? Or any significant commercial outside of the major commercial / industrial districts?

Calgary has less suburban multi-family units than other large cities in Canada, but I expect still has more than comparable US cities. ~25% of dwelling in Calgary are apartments. I couldn't find similar statistics for Nashville, Denver, Charlotte or Austin (admittedly I didn't look all that hard).

[dc_denizen]

^ oh there's definitely multifamily, its just mostly (it seems) right next to the core or in it

less of this

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Au...!4d-97.7430608

[Doady]

Las Vegas is another almost entirely post-war city that is denser and more transit-oriented than one mighr expect for such new city.

Calgary population in 1951: 130,000
Las Vegas population in 1950: 48,000

Calgary population in 2011: 1,239,000
Las Vegas population in 2011: 1,951,000

Calgary urban density in 2011: 2,112 per sq km
Las Vegas urban density in 2010: 1,747 per sq km

Calgary high-rises: 365
Las Vegas high-rises: 172

Calgary annual transit boardings: 164 million
Las Vegas annual transit boardings: 67 million

The density and transit ridership of Las Vegas is on a completely different level compared to Nashville, Austin and Charlotte. Las Vegas is much closer to Calgary than any of those other cities.

I wouldn't include Denver simply because it is much older than Calgary. It had a population of 560,000 in 1950, so the pre-war city is much larger compared to Calgary.

[ue]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Is there any multifamily outside of the core in either Calgary or Edmonton? Or any significant commercial outside of the major commercial / industrial districts?

urbanists talk a lot about segregation of uses, but check out these cities..the non-core residential areas seem completely (SFH) residential. to go shopping, you have to visit semi-industrial / commercial areas with manufacturing and retail

https://www.google.com/maps/search/c.../data=!3m1!1e3

Well, Edmonton has Strathcona, which is fairly central but very disconnected from the downtown core by the huge river valley (unlike Oliver or the Quarters which act more like an extension).

The main street (Whyte Ave): https://goo.gl/maps/1UW3Khy5nyDqKri16

A lot of the mature residential area is walk-up apartments like this with some old single-detached homes mixed in: https://goo.gl/maps/b2H92ipW3EVb2Kww7

The northern bank of the area, Saskatchewan Drive, is lined with this: https://goo.gl/maps/sxSrsLKSX8x7aKfo8

There's also newer human-scaled construction: https://goo.gl/maps/MyNYPcygHtE1cT768

It also blends seamlessly with Garneau and the UofA to the west, which is a major high density area of employment, education, and housing.

Garneau's main street (The less impressive 109 St): https://goo.gl/maps/xvRQeMHmvyyEtwTF6

Dense residential: https://goo.gl/maps/RcuWFcMjzoeTJRR66

Admittedly there's a fair bit of historical preservation, so there are blocks of this too: https://goo.gl/maps/ZK7Zv4oKReubZBz9A

The area as a satellite image (from left to right it goes UofA -> Garneau -> Strathcona): https://goo.gl/maps/v8yBnEzs9oktdyTc9

Also, throughout Edmonton, there's stuff like this...

Westwood (largely multi-unit residential, with a small commercial main street a block off this streetview, adjacent to NAIT, the major polytechnic): https://goo.gl/maps/WTngmzJcTAEV7KcU9

Empire Park (near the city's first proper freeway and the major regional mall -- Southgate): https://goo.gl/maps/v6xHvqYqD6Jf7Q6YA

Jasper Place (semi-walkable main street and surrounding residential area often has a lot of walk-ups): https://goo.gl/maps/M3nKw1A5veTUzHFA9 & https://goo.gl/maps/rw746dJjne3cBvzu7

Newer stuff in Windermere: https://goo.gl/maps/9oVXsBShgR9eMd7J9

Beverly is another decent one: https://goo.gl/maps/mADQFaMJsdRBEwky9

If you're just looking for some towers there's this around Capilano: https://goo.gl/maps/mJczfgfxdek48STc6

Or some office towers on Calgary Trail: https://goo.gl/maps/kVBFtjHUPzXknMMN7

Alberta Ave is a more walkable commercial + low rise multi unit residential main street surrounded by older stock housing and more disconnected from the core: https://goo.gl/maps/pgAV1o4ZDzvymKWY9

I think in a more integrated, mixed-use sense that you seem to be looking for, Strathcona/Garneau is the apex example, with Westwood, Jasper Place, and Beverly secondary examples. Alberta Ave to a lesser extent. The others I highlighted are more a tower cluster or business cluster. There's also other walkable, dense areas, but they're more connected to the core (Westmount/124th St, Oliver, the North Edge/107 Ave, McCauley, Boyle St).

[ue]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

^ oh there's definitely multifamily, its just mostly (it seems) right next to the core or in it

less of this

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Au...!4d-97.7430608

I don't feel like going as thorough all over again for Calgary, but quickly, Calgary has these areas...

Brentwood Village: https://goo.gl/maps/g1T6A1Pq9EiaZe5j6

Garrison Woods/Marda Loop: https://goo.gl/maps/4GjwjKNFMy4DdPLX8

MacLeod/Southland: https://goo.gl/maps/ao5SXbYS5Rq1r2Yt6

Stuff like this around Marlborough: https://goo.gl/maps/5uamthwu4WM1eBuRA

Also the Bowness area...

Etc

The MacLeod Trail corridor actually has a fair amount of high rises (both office and residential) stretched out along it. Some of it slowly getting more 'urban' in feel.

[DZH22]

Originally Posted by badrunner

um.. Boston isn't even a top 10 skyline in the US. Calgary would be though, maybe.

From a skyline perspective, they're basically the same size, both dominated by blocky office buildings. The difference is that Boston has the fully built city to boot, while Calgary just has the fully built skyline.

This pic shows it pretty well, especially zoomed in. The skylines (minus the surroundings) are pretty similar, although Boston's ends up being more spread out.

https://i.redd.it/ihdcccpob5951.jpg

If Calgary was in the US it would be a borderline Top 10 skyline, just like Boston. A lot depends on taste. They both have the mass to justify as high as an 8-10 ranking, but could also reasonably be as low as 14-15.

Another cool (unpostable) pic showing off some of Boston's new height. I think these are 2 of the closest rated skylines in North America.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/838980...in/dateposted/

[BnaBreaker]

It is nice to see Nashville being discussed in a generally positive way for a change on this forum, but that being said, as someone who considers it to be their hometown, I can honestly say that as much as I appreciate it being included in this discussion, it probably doesn't belong. Calgary is simply far and away a more developed, complex, engaging, dynamic urban environment than Nashville in just about every possible way. That is not to say that Nashville doesn't compare favorably in certain aspects, but if we're trying to find an equivalent to Calgary strictly in terms of overall urban muscle, then Nashville simply can't match up... although it is improving rapidly in that regard. I would agree that Denver, and possibly Minneapolis, are probably it's closest peers.

[edale]

It's pretty obvious that Calgary is built up way more than it needs to be, given the size of the metro and the obvious room for growth. What's up with that?

Honolulu, the other city that probably comes closest to matching this phenomenon, has a very limited geography to work with, pushing housing toward highrises. Its office core is a fairly minimal component of the overall skyline. Geography + tourism basically explains Honolulu. What explains Calgary?

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by edale

What explains Calgary?

From what I can gather, and I'm no expert, I think the main reasons are 1) large oil industry presence and 2) generally more favorable attitudes toward urban living among Canadians compared to Americans (although that was changing in the US pre-pandemic). Perhaps the differences in local/provincial governmental structures play a role too.

[SIGSEGV]

This post suggests that anti-highwayism has played a role:
https://www.thetransportpolitic.com/...awling-cities/

Downtown circulator freeway systems are literally choking many American cities.

[The North One]

Another difference, Denver is brown and arid, looks like everything is struggling to survive. Calgary looks green and lush and has a prominent blue river.

I don't see a similar aesthetic here other then they both built some 80's oil towers.

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by edale

It's pretty obvious that Calgary is built up way more than it needs to be, given the size of the metro and the obvious room for growth. What's up with that?

Honolulu, the other city that probably comes closest to matching this phenomenon, has a very limited geography to work with, pushing housing toward highrises. Its office core is a fairly minimal component of the overall skyline. Geography + tourism basically explains Honolulu. What explains Calgary?

Overbuilding ? The below was pre covid

‘Calgary's office sector, which has 241 acres of vacant space in the downtown market alone, is expected to see vacancy rates rise from an already loose 27.2 per cent to a whopping 29.1 per cent this year, according to the global commercial real estate firm.Feb 26, 2020’

Pre-covid Denver was 10%

29%! That’s pretty crazy

[lrt's friend]

What's up with that?

The way municipalities are organized. Calgary includes almost all the urban and suburban area. As a result, there is more consistent planning. This restricts helter-skelter growth of far flung suburbs, which increases overall density. Also, Calgary has the largest number of head offices in Western Canada and this is at least one reason for the number of tall buildings in the downtown area.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Overbuilding ? The below was pre covid

‘Calgary's office sector, which has 241 acres of vacant space in the downtown market alone, is expected to see vacancy rates rise from an already loose 27.2 per cent to a whopping 29.1 per cent this year, according to the global commercial real estate firm.Feb 26, 2020’

Pre-covid Denver was 10%

29%! That’s pretty crazy

The result of Calgary's dependence on the oil industry and the collapse of oil prices in the last 5 years or so. I don't think we will see much building of office towers in Calgary for the next little while.

[The North One]

Yeah last I heard Calgary finished it's tallest office building right when oil crashed and oil has been kinda depressed ever since so the high percentage isn't surprising. I wonder how healthy the residential market is since Calgary literally just finished an equally large condo tower.

[itom 987]

https://www.stockaerialphotos.com/me...algary-alberta

This (old) picture exemplifies Calgary.

It has a large downtown full of highrises and then a small (by US standards) suburban area surrounding it followed by nothing. Any comparable city in the US would have the suburban area visible as far as the eyes can see. In the case of Boston, it has a while lot of London within its core, Calgary has absolutely nothing that resembles London. Nashville's downtown is incredibly vibrant, the nightlife on Broadway gets at least 6 times the number of party goers that Edmonton's Strathcona gets in spite of taking up the same area. Calgary's 17th Avenue nightlife district is not as vibrant as Edmonton's Strathcona.

I must say that the mid-rise developments in US cities are much larger than the ones in Calgary and Edmonton. Excellent parking lot fillers!

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by BnaBreaker

It is nice to see Nashville being discussed in a generally positive way for a change on this forum, but that being said, as someone who considers it to be their hometown, I can honestly say that as much as I appreciate it being included in this discussion, it probably doesn't belong. Calgary is simply far and away a more developed, complex, engaging, dynamic urban environment than Nashville in just about every possible way. That is not to say that Nashville doesn't compare favorably in certain aspects, but if we're trying to find an equivalent to Calgary strictly in terms of overall urban muscle, then Nashville simply can't match up... although it is improving rapidly in that regard. I would agree that Denver, and possibly Minneapolis, are probably it's closest peers.

What I don't understand is how any time Nashville is mentioned, a few people come out of the woodwork to put it down. I don't know shit about Nashville, I've never been. I was hoping to visit this summer briefly on the way to Lake Cumberland but it seems like it's doing the best it can. Most cities are, or were, prior to the pandemic.

In that vein, is Calgary (or Nashville, Austin, Denver, et cetera) being the best Calgary it can be? I know for some people here, that's never going to be good enough, but for fucks sake...

[BnaBreaker]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

What I don't understand is how any time Nashville is mentioned, a few people come out of the woodwork to put it down. I don't know shit about Nashville, I've never been. I was hoping to visit this summer briefly on the way to Lake Cumberland but it seems like it's doing the best it can. Most cities are, or were, prior to the pandemic.

Well, I don't want to diverge from the thread topic too much, but since you asked, my working theory is that given the fact that this is a forum for urbanity enthusiasts, I think the mere mention of Nashville kind of triggers a reflexive negative reaction in some folks due to it's somewhat warranted, but also (in my opinion) greatly exaggerated reputation as being the antithesis of the traditional dense urban centers that we all have a soft spot for. Also I think there's some disdain for it from some due to the fact that lately it has received a fair amount of general praise and attention in the media that hasn't necessarily been given to their respective cities. That's my perception anyway. I'm not really sure what else it could be, because a city merely not being one's cup of tea shouldn't be enough to inspire the sheer volume of venom it sometimes receives.

But hey, regardless of the reasoning, it is what it is. I'll be the first to admit that it definitely has its share of major issues that need attention, and that it probably is overhyped in some circles. So although it's working hard to address those issues there are certainly many valid and well-deserved criticisms to be made. But I don't know, I guess my thing is that I don't know why that means you have to talk about it like it's your mom's new boyfriend or something, ya know? lol oh well... anyway... back to Calgary.

[Ant131531]

I mean does Nashville really get that much more shit on this forum than any other suburbanized sunbelt metro on here? Houston gets trashed on all the time on here too.

[kool maudit]

I'd love to visit Nashville. I don't know why it attracts negative comment.