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  #101  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2020, 12:36 AM
Docere Docere is offline
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San Francisco up until perhaps two generations ago was a pretty Catholic ethnic (Irish/Italian) city, especially by Western standards.
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  #102  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2020, 2:17 AM
Shawn Shawn is offline
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
People with strong and/or recent cultural ties to Irish culture and Ireland still exist on the East Coast in the US.

For example, Saoirse Ronan.

From her Wikipedia biography section:

Saoirse Una Ronan was born on 12 April 1994 in The Bronx, New York City, U.S.[3] She is the only child of Irish parents Monica (née Brennan) and Paul Ronan, who are both from Dublin.[4] Her father worked in construction and bar work before training as an actor in New York,[5][6] and her mother worked as a nanny, but had also acted as a child.[6][7] Ronan's parents were initially undocumented immigrants who had left Ireland due to the recession of the 1980s, and struggled economically during their time in New York.[4] The family moved back to Dublin when Ronan was three years old.[8]
This is the point I was trying to make pages back: there's a whole lot of undocumented Irish in New England and New York. It's a situation which I'm not sure has any other equivalent in contemporary America: a sizeable white illegal immigrant community.
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  #103  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2020, 1:37 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
This is the point I was trying to make pages back: there's a whole lot of undocumented Irish in New England and New York. It's a situation which I'm not sure has any other equivalent in contemporary America: a sizeable white illegal immigrant community.
There are a ton of illegal immigrants from eastern Europe in the U.S. If you limit it to western Europe, I don't think it is rare for western Europeans to overstay their visas, but yes, it seems like Irish are more likely than other westerners to make a life out of that undocumented status.
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  #104  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2020, 1:53 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Yeah, there are definitely lots of undocumented Eastern Europeans. I personally know Albanians, former Yugoslavians and former Soviets. In fact our handyman is an undocumented Albanian guy.

Also, many, while clearly working illegally, don't fit the stereotype. They leave the country twice a year, per their "tourist" visa rules. They aren't exactly hiding in the shadows; the feds know exactly what's going on. They're just in cash businesses.
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  #105  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2020, 9:09 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Philadelphia I believe has the second overall percentage that is Irish among the big US cities. Interestingly it's more popularly associated with Italian culture and Boston less so - even though the percentage of Italian Americans in their white populations are similar.
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  #106  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2020, 1:41 AM
Docere Docere is offline
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Total Irish ancestry

Boston 969,587
Chicago 984,300
New York 1,843,803
Philadelphia 1,073,644

Irish single ancestry

Boston 332,025
Chicago 234,561
New York 479,221
Philadelphia 262,215
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  #107  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2021, 11:06 PM
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Into the 1970s straight out Irish accents were commonplace among older people in the Newfoundland Irish settlements. It actually became a topic of fascination in Ireland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr9O...27sVideoVaults
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  #108  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2021, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Into the 1970s straight out Irish accents were commonplace among older people in the Newfoundland Irish settlements. It actually became a topic of fascination in Ireland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr9O...27sVideoVaults
That was true when I visited around 1966.
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  #109  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2021, 3:48 AM
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Atlantic Canada is North America's "Celtic fringe." Newfoundland's Avalon Peninsula is Ireland and eastern Nova Scotia is Scotland.
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  #110  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2021, 4:32 AM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
This is the point I was trying to make pages back: there's a whole lot of undocumented Irish in New England and New York. It's a situation which I'm not sure has any other equivalent in contemporary America: a sizeable white illegal immigrant community.
I am a duel citizen of the U.S. and the Republic of Ireland, although I have never traveled there, and have never gotten the Irish passport. My first experience with fresh off the boat Irish people was in Boston, and I was shocked by the alcoholism, fighting, and ignorance. I had people eyeballing me as being ethnically Irish and insisting that I should give them money. I'm like I don't owe you losers anything.
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  #111  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2021, 6:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
I am a duel citizen of the U.S. and the Republic of Ireland, although I have never traveled there, and have never gotten the Irish passport. My first experience with fresh off the boat Irish people was in Boston, and I was shocked by the alcoholism, fighting, and ignorance. I had people eyeballing me as being ethnically Irish and insisting that I should give them money. I'm like I don't owe you losers anything.
Not sure when this might have been but Ireland’s economy is in great shape now due to its low corporate tax rate. Many US and other companies have moved there to take advantage and a substantial tech industry developed. San Francisco has in the last couple of decades had considerable back and forth movement of Irish techies which resulted pre-covid in a number of Irish bars snd pubs frequented not only by the Irish but quite a few born/bred Americans as well.

Actually, my condo also contracts with an Irish waterproofing consultant (these days you might think of it as being so we don’t have a Surfside type event) and he’s a really great guy. I actually enjoy talking to him.
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  #112  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2021, 12:24 PM
Shawn Shawn is offline
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
I am a duel citizen of the U.S. and the Republic of Ireland, although I have never traveled there, and have never gotten the Irish passport. My first experience with fresh off the boat Irish people was in Boston, and I was shocked by the alcoholism, fighting, and ignorance. I had people eyeballing me as being ethnically Irish and insisting that I should give them money. I'm like I don't owe you losers anything.
Was this in the 70s, 80s, or early 90s? Sounds like stories I've heard from older family members about Southie and Charlestown back then.
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  #113  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2021, 1:18 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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I was in grad school in Boston area from 2003-2005, and though they were gentrifying, Southie and Charlestown still had strong Irish American enclave feels. Like there were bars you wouldn't randomly walk into, and you would get the side eye just strolling around.

There was a public housing complex in Charlestown that appeared right out one of those Boston Irish mob movies. Like they could have filmed The Departed or The Town there. I assume this has changed somewhat, but maybe not completely?
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  #114  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2021, 1:31 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Was this in the 70s, 80s, or early 90s? Sounds like stories I've heard from older family members about Southie and Charlestown back then.
Wow, people are talking about the exact spot I'm talking about. I think my first memory is riding a bike down this main road and getting dirty looks from everyone in this complex:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3779.../data=!3m1!1e3

Actually I remember being in DT Boston before that and seeing an Irish woman, dressed in a what appeared to be a homemade house dress made of stitched-together rags, walking her son with a homemade leather leash tied around his neck. She was smoking and yelling at him and yanking on the leash for no reason.

My mom was adopted out of an orphanage in Ireland as a child, so she doesn't have an accent, or any real memory of the place, so it's an odd circumstance having automatic citizenship in a country you have no emotional tie with.
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  #115  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2021, 1:44 PM
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Yeah, that's the project. Maybe it's changed, but 15 years ago it felt pretty solid Irish American, and extremely insular.

Southie, too, had some real insular blocks, the further you got from the T station, and the closer you got to the waterfront. A very thick Irish American Boston subculture.
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  #116  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2021, 9:18 PM
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Buffalo still has a strong Irish American community. In the theater district downtown, there's even the Irish Classical Theater company run by an expat from Ireland. There are two St. Patrick's Day parades, one celebrating the old Irish neighborhoods, and the large one downtown. There's the Buffalo Irish Center, Tara Irish import shop, Irish dancing all still exist to keep the spirit of Ireland alive.

Traditionally the less well off aka "shanty Irish" that worked as laborers, grain scoopers, etc. settled in the areas known as the Old First Ward and The Valley. Their (usually modest) homes were typically within walking distance of the grain elevators, steel mill, or other industry where they worked.
A typical single family home in this area is worth only between $60-100k as this area has experienced some serious depopulation.

Video Link


The middle class Irish settled in the nicer area of South Buffalo a bit further away from industry, and built some larger and nicer homes on larger lots. Two major city (Olmsted designed) parks, Cazenovia Park and South Park (which houses the Buffalo & Erie County Botanical gardens) are in this area.
The main commerical strip, Seneca Street, is currently undergoing a revitalization in part due to the rehabilitation of the Seneca theatre into a mixed-use complex.
Nicer single family homes in this area sell for $200-250k (with the nicest ones currently going through bidding wars).

The pubs in these areas typically remain in Irish American hands for generations

Arguably the nicest Church in WNY, Our Lady of Victory basilica, was built just across the city line in Lackawanna (near South Park/Botanical gardens) in the 1920s with donations flooding in from Catholics around the world.
https://www.olvbasilica.org/



Last edited by Wigs; Jul 14, 2021 at 11:31 PM.
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  #117  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2021, 12:57 AM
Shawn Shawn is offline
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
Wow, people are talking about the exact spot I'm talking about. I think my first memory is riding a bike down this main road and getting dirty looks from everyone in this complex:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3779.../data=!3m1!1e3

Actually I remember being in DT Boston before that and seeing an Irish woman, dressed in a what appeared to be a homemade house dress made of stitched-together rags, walking her son with a homemade leather leash tied around his neck. She was smoking and yelling at him and yanking on the leash for no reason.

My mom was adopted out of an orphanage in Ireland as a child, so she doesn't have an accent, or any real memory of the place, so it's an odd circumstance having automatic citizenship in a country you have no emotional tie with.

All Souls

My dad practically made me read this when it came out. Seriously, the level of poverty and just pure destitution the Boston FBI community lived through well into the 70s and 80s is hard to fathom.
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  #118  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2022, 12:29 AM
Docere Docere is offline
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Finally, I just don't think unassimilated, pure Irish Catholic is nearly as "white ethnic" as Italian, Polish, Russian, etc. in the minds of most Americans. The Irish are much more assimilated, have fairer skin, already spoke English when they emigrated, and are prevalent throughout the country. In the South, the cultural equivalent to Irish Catholics in Boston/Philly/NYC/Chicago would be working-class English who "talk funny" and are ultra-conservative on social issues. I proffer that that's a distinct an "ethnic" group. And most Irish Catholics in the Northeast and Chicago are no longer working class at this point and have fled to the suburbs. In Boston proper, Irish is the most common ancestry by a large margin in the wealthiest nabes (Beacon Hill and Back Bay). South Boston, as stereotypically "inner-city" Irish as it gets, has a median household income of $89,000.
I would agree with that. They're definitely not as distinctive as Italian Americans. There are some Irish Catholic pockets in the Northeast and Chicago but in fact most Americans of Irish ancestry are Protestant and are pretty dispersed across the country.

I also read a study (probably from the 70s or 80s) showing Irish Catholic Americans were actually more likely to marry WASPs than Italians, contrary to the common assertion about Irish-Italian marriages being especially high. As you say, they've been in the country longer and their ancestors spoke English.
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  #119  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2022, 12:35 AM
Docere Docere is offline
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There's an issue with overlap, but there are almost certainly more Americans of English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish Protestant ancestry than there are of German, Austrian and Swiss-German ancestry. The colonies were far more English than German in composition and those of colonial stock had a head-start. Many descended from this group just report "American" now - particularly in the South - or maybe they opt for their 19th century German and Irish ancestors when reporting their ancestry.
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  #120  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2022, 6:33 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Joe Biden has a strong Irish identity. Does Biden seem "white ethnic"?
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